[2E] Hybrid Body Rearrangement

[Flagg]

A bit of an argument recently cropped up in my gaming group over this Knack, which is on p.135 of MoEP:Lunars.


DBT forbids a character from taking the "Large" mutation as part of it's repertoire. HBR, however, has no such restriction mentioned.


What do you guys think of the (in)validity of invoking "Large" using HBR? What about while in Beastman form?

 

[Haku1]

Given the HEUG HUEG!!! knack available in West book, I say go for it!

 

[Persell]

Actually the emperor ox expansion knack speaks out against taking large as mutation.


Mechanically all attribute points and health levels for lunar DBT come from knacks, not mutations. That is a deliberate choice of the author and I would not mess with that.

 

[Fruan]

Hybrid Body Rearrangement also requires that the mutation in question reflect in some way a property of one of the forms you have in your heart's blood library.


"Large" provides some difficulties in this regard; Even if you have consumed, say, an elephant's heart's blood, is that elephant large? Well, it's probably larger than a field mouse, but is it large for an elephant? Most likely it is normally sized for an elephant, in which case the story teller might be right in ruling it does not provide access to 'Large' for the purposes of Hybrid Body Rearrangement.


And even if you have spent the time to hunt an abnormally large elephant, being abnormally large isn't a usual trait of elephants, leading to Hybrid Body Rearrangement still not being able to provide the Large mutation - Just as having the form of a one legged crow shouldn't allow you to use HBR for a custom 'One Legged' mutation. HBR seems to (fluff wise) bring species traits from one form to another, not abnormal specifics.


I'm not actually sure I believe this argument myself. But it's an interesting idea.

 

[Flagg]

For the sake of argument, let's say that the Lunar does have elephant in his repertoire, and the ST thinks that's a valid justification for "large".


The question is, is that legal?

Actually the emperor ox expansion knack speaks out against taking large as mutation.
Mechanically all attribute points and health levels for lunar DBT come from knacks, not mutations. That is a deliberate choice of the author and I would not mess with that.

Right. I'm not talking about DBT though. This is a different Knack.

 

[Vanman]

The thing with Hybrid Body Rearrangement is it specifically says you only change part of your body, so the Large mutation wouldn't necessarily work. What, you're just going to make your fist large when you attack? Again, and I quote:

Each mutation is based on changing part of the character’s bodyâ€â€but not allâ€â€in a manner inspired by the Lunar’s spirit shape or some other animal form from her Heart’s Blood library.

So I don't think this would allow for the Large mutation to be used. And I would see it as incompatible with DBT. At least that's how I'd rule it. Perfected Hybrid Interaction, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter. I think you could take the Large mutation with PHI. But, again, that's just how I see it.

 

[Persell]

For the sake of argument, let's say that the Lunar does have elephant in his repertoire, and the ST thinks that's a valid justification for "large".
The question is, is that legal?

Actually the emperor ox expansion knack speaks out against taking large as mutation.
Mechanically all attribute points and health levels for lunar DBT come from knacks, not mutations. That is a deliberate choice of the author and I would not mess with that.

Right. I'm not talking about DBT though. This is a different Knack.

I know, it was poorly worded of me. Sorry for that.


What I wanted to say is the following:


1. We have rules present, those say in "DBT": only stuff that comes from knacks gives you points.


2. We have knacks that let you increase the size of  your spirit shape.


From this I derive that the author intended to let knacks and charms mess with size and health levels (what he explicitly wrote with DBT which I am using analogous here) and not mutations.

 

[Flagg]

From this I derive that the author intended to let knacks and charms mess with size and health levels (what he explicitly wrote with DBT which I am using analogous here) and not mutations.

But HBR is a Knack that lets you use mutations. It has no other function.

 

[Persell]

So is DBT. It still follows the outlined rules.

 

[Flagg]

So is DBT. It still follows the outlined rules.

Not quite. DBT has effects above and beyond those gained by mutations. HBR has none - at all.

 

[Murdrak]

"Each mutation is based on changing part of the character's body - but not all - in a manner inspired by the lunar's spirit shape or some other animal form from her hearts blood library."


Mutation is used as a shorthand for animalistic features and is not the same thing as actual wyld mutations.


You get the horns of the bull in your library, the tongue of the toad in your library, the eyes of the eagle in your library, but you should not get blatantly supernatural mutations.


I don't see how you can use this knack to justify making your human form 8 feet tall because you have an elephant in your library.


The logic sounds like an elephant is bigger than a human so I can make my human form bigger.  


The animalistic feature you are going for is the size of an elephant?  


I don't think so.

 

[Haku1]

And is there something stoping you from getting that knack that allows you to consume animals with mutations? And hunting down something with the HUEG mutation? or other mutations?


And you know GETTING strange mutations you can add to your list of abilities?

 

[Hanat-Osul]

I've been under the impression that Lunars can't use any shapeshifting power to get the Large mutation because it's twinked out.


Were this question to come up in a game where I was ST, I wouldn't allow it.