[2e] Animal stats

[xenopsyllus]

I'm looking for animal stats for my Lunar. The main Exalted book has a rather limited listing of animals. I've tried the animal stats from the rest of my WW library (mostly Vampire), but they differ significantly both from themselves and from the stats in the main Exalted book.


Anyone know where to find a good collection of animal stats for Exalted?


(currently playing 2nd ed, but the animal stats haven't changed much between editions, so 1st ed animal stats would work, too)

 

[Haku1]

Creatures of the Wyld?

 

[Gtroc]

that was first ED. I do not know if there are any animal stats outside of the main book. you would think that the lunars book would have more in it. sadly that is not the case.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Generally, it's relativelly simple to look at the existing animal stats and either use them as a guideline to set where other animals fall in comparison, or simply use the stats of a similar creature. Also, use common sense. A squirel is likely going to have very poor strength and stamina, but a rather good dex, and no real soak beyond that gained from stamina. The squirrel likely has a bite attack that does base bashing damage equal to its strength. Most lemures and so forth are likely to have similar stats...as might a racoon...though some such might have an actual claw attack. If acting as an ST, use a bit of sense, compare the creature to others that do have stats, and extrapolate. if acting as a player, do a bit of the same and check with your ST and see if the stats you come up with are acceptable and they feel they are reasonable. Ask if they have any pregenerated stats for certain things.

 

[Gtroc]

I agree, but the question raised was if there is a good collection of animal stats for second ed, outside of the main book. also when starting with a base creature, I find adding a mutation that fits works very well. that, however, has the down side of being non-cannon. meaning that it is all left in the hands of the ST. as a player, I know how much that sucks. you end up haggling for your character. I hate haggling.

 

[xenopsyllus]

I can convert or just plain write up stats for animals; I was hoping that someone else had done it to save me the time.


Oh well.


Once I've written up a nice list, I'll post it for others to use/critisize.

 

[Dracogryff]

Well, there's one or two new critters in the Wiki Bestiary, but not much else that I've seen anywhere, and there's like, two at most that aren't in the core book there. People seem to be less concerned with beast forms for Lunars, at least when it comes to statting them out, as the ones that are statted are generally sufficient for what a Lunar will fight in...most Lunars aren't going to be caught dead fighting in a squirrel's form for the most part, after all. Though, what with the 2E book coming out, there may be a surge of new forms, I don't know.


One of these days I gotta try and make my avatar in Exalted though...Lunar squirrel totem with a Beamklaive FTW!  :lol:

 

[Dracogryff]

Here's a few likely animals (or ones I'm using as a totem for a Lunar right now) that I wrote up in an hour or two...animals are actually really easy to stat out. Asked LK to look 'em over for suggestions. Might do more after the family visit today...animals are cake to stat out.

Animal: Cheetah
S/D/S P/I/W/W Health Levels Attacks (S/A/D/R) Dodge DV/Soak


3/5*/3 3/1/3/5 -0/-1x1/-2x2/-4/I Bite 6/8/4L/1 4/1L/3B


Abilities: Athletics 4, Awareness 3, Dodge 3, Integrity 2, Investigation 2, Martial Arts 3, Presence 3, Resistance 3, Stealth 4, Survival 3


*Has effects of Cheetah’s Pace Blight naturally for move actions


Animal: Flying Fox


S/D/S P/I/W/W Health Levels Attacks (S/A/D/R) Dodge DV/Soak


1/3/1 4/1/3/3 -0/-1/-4/I Bite 6/5/1L/1 3/0L/1B


Abilities: Athletics 3, Awareness 4 (Echolocation +2), Dodge 3, Integrity 1, Investigation 2, Martial Arts 2, Presence 2, Resistance 2, Stealth 2, Survival 3


Animal: Fox


S/D/S P/I/W/W Health Levels Attacks (S/A/D/R) Dodge DV/Soak


1/4/2 3/2/4/4 -0/-1/-2/-4/I Bite 6/7/2L/1 4/1L/2B


Abilities: Athletics 3, Awareness 3, Dodge 4, Integrity 2, Investigation 2, Martial Arts 3, Presence 2, Resistance 3, Stealth 3, Survival 3 (False Trails +2)


Animal: Squirrel


S/D/S P/I/W/W Health Levels Attacks (S/A/D/R) Dodge DV/Soak


1/3/1 3/1/3/3 -0/-3/I Bite 6/4/1B/1 3/0L/1B


Abilities: Athletics 3 (Climbing +3), Awareness 3, Dodge 3, Integrity 1, Investigation 2, Martial Arts 1, Presence 1, Resistance 2, Stealth 2, Survival 3


Animal: Rat


S/D/S P/I/W/W Health Levels Attacks (S/A/D/R) Dodge DV/Soak


1/3/2 3/2/3/5 -0/-1/-2/I Bite* 6/6/1L/1 3/1L/2B


Abilities: Athletics 3, Awareness 3, Dodge 3, Integrity 2, Investigation 3, Martial Arts 3, Presence 2, Resistance 3 (Diseases +2), Stealth 3, Survival 2 (In Cities +2)


*Can inflict disease at storyteller discretion


Animal: Owl


S/D/S P/I/W/W Health Levels Attacks (S/A/D/R) Dodge DV/Soak


2/3/2 4/1/4/4 -0/-1/-2/-4/I Beak 6/6/2L/1 3/1L/2B


Grab 6/8/3B/2


Abilities: Athletics 3, Awareness 3 (At Night +2), Dodge 3, Integrity 2, Investigation 2, Martial Arts 3 (Grabbing +2), Presence 1, Resistance 2, Stealth 3 (Flying +2), Survival 3


Animal: Timber Wolf


S/D/S P/I/W/W Health Levels Attacks (S/A/D/R) Dodge DV/Soak


5/3/4 3/2/3/5 -0/-1x2/-2x2/-4/I Bite 6/6/6L/1 3/2L/4B


Abilities: Athletics 3, Awareness 4, Dodge 3, Integrity 2, Investigation 2, Martial Arts 3 (Tripping +2), Presence 3 (With Pack +2), Resistance 3, Stealth 3, Survival 3, War 2 (Pack Tactics +2)

I also make the automatic assumption that all four legged animals effectively have the effects of the Wolf's Pace pox from the Wyld book (it adds 2 to dex when calcluating movement, and 2 to strength for calculating jumping distances).


I would also mod the core animals a little, myself. Give Horses get a Resistance specialty of Endurance +3, most Great Cats a specialty of Ambushes +2 in Stealth and Initimidation +2 in Presence, stuff like that.

 

[Persell]

I think your dex score for the cheetah is off limits. All big cats have a three so I think the cheetah has a four at best. That would correspond with the usual over-the-topness of exalted where heroic mortals can outrun cheetahs.

 

[Flagg]

It would probably be easiest to stat out general groups of animals, rather than tons of individual ones: "small/large bird", "small/large rodent", "small/medium/large canine", "small/medium/large cat", etc.


The variance in game stats between a fox and a weasel is going to be so minuscule that's it's not even worth differentiating. Quirks of individual species can easily be added to the template using common sense.


Edit: Also, for the purposes of Lunar forms, full stats are not required.

 

[Dracogryff]

I think your dex score for the cheetah is off limits. All big cats have a three so I think the cheetah has a four at best. That would correspond with the usual over-the-topness of exalted where heroic mortals can outrun cheetahs.

Last I checked, mortals weren't supposed to be able to outrun horses, let alone cheetahs, even in Exalted. With a few cool stunts, maybe, but not naturally. *shrugs* And the Blessed Isle's Crag Cat (p. 159, CoCD: Blessed Isle) has a 6 dex, so I figured a 5 was reasonable for the fastest creature on the planet.


Oh yeah...could check the Blessed Isle for animal options (on the page mentioned above), it apparently has some, like Pandas. Don't know if Scavenger Lands has any.


And I know that I don't need all stats for Lunar totems. It's handy to have them for Sacred Hunts, though...and I like to have a complete setup...and I do agree you don't need to necessarily be as specific as I have. I was just having fun. You can easily replace 'Squirrel' up there with 'Small Furry Rodent' and either remove or replace the Athletics specialty as appropriate. The Owl will work fine for a hawk (just remove the Stealth Specialty of Flying +2 and done) or falcon in most cases. I'd probably add a dot of strength and stamina for most eagles, though.

 

[Flagg]

I'd probably add a dot of strength and stamina for most eagles, though.

I wouldn't. Remember the stats are in human-scale. Eagles may be strong ...for birds.

 

[Persell]

I think your dex score for the cheetah is off limits. All big cats have a three so I think the cheetah has a four at best. That would correspond with the usual over-the-topness of exalted where heroic mortals can outrun cheetahs.

Last I checked, mortals weren't supposed to be able to outrun horses, let alone cheetahs, even in Exalted. With a few cool stunts, maybe, but not naturally. *shrugs* And the Blessed Isle's Crag Cat (p. 159, CoCD: Blessed Isle) has a 6 dex, so I figured a 5 was reasonable for the fastest creature on the planet.

Last I checked an average soldier (not an elite one mind you) with athletics 2 and strength 2 was able to lift a pony. When drawing an analogy from there I think outrunning a horse or a cheetah is not so out of place.


The crag cat has double the dex of other great cats, so we can safely assume it is a "one of a kind"-thing.


And while our mister cheetah can reach speeds of 105 kilometers per hour, tigers, who are at dex 3 btw, can easily reach speeds of 60 kilometers per hour and more and that while being a much heavier animal.


I know, I should not bring logic to a rules discussion, but I think this shows that a dex of 5 is out of place for a cheetah.

 

[Dracogryff]

Last I checked an average soldier (not an elite one mind you) with athletics 2 and strength 2 was able to lift a pony. When drawing an analogy from there I think outrunning a horse or a cheetah is not so out of place.
The crag cat has double the dex of other great cats, so we can safely assume it is a "one of a kind"-thing.


And while our mister cheetah can reach speeds of 105 kilometers per hour, tigers, who are at dex 3 btw, can easily reach speeds of 60 kilometers per hour and more and that while being a much heavier animal.


I know, I should not bring logic to a rules discussion, but I think this shows that a dex of 5 is out of place for a cheetah.

Well, if you want logic...


Firstly, how is it unreasonable to have a creature nearly double the dexterity when it moves nearly twice as fast? Double the tiger's speed would be 120 kph. The cheetah goes 105 kph+, all of 15 kph less than that 120 mark. Doubling speed would logically double dex, so would be a 6, and I'm only giving a 5. *shrugs* If you mean with the blight and such factored in, maybe...but to continue this logically....


Point number two. I've got the cheetah going a fair bit too slow by giving it a 5 dex. They also go faster than 105 kph. They've been clocked at going from 0 to 110 kph in 3 seconds...which implies (to me at least) they can actually reach such speeds. But...let's say their top speed is 105 for the moment.


105 kph is 105,000 mph (m is meters in this case), which converts to approximately 114829 yph (a yard is 1.093 meters). Taking this down to seconds, this is roughly 32 yards a second (there are 3600 seconds in an hour). Now, assuming a dash action to achieve this, subtract 6, to get 26. Assume they have an equivalent bonus to the Blight Cheetah's Pace...heck, let's make an abomination equivalent of this line and subtract 8 instead of 6. This leaves us with 18. That would be the dexterity I would logically have to give a cheetah to make it go as fast as its supposed to. THAT is ridiculous. My 5 dex makes them go roughly a whopping 56 kph, so, slower than your tiger....and it's unreasonable?


Movement rates in Exalted are not really all that accurate on the whole...so I tend to take them with a grain of salt. So...yes, logic is fairly out of consideration for this. I also asked my ST if they thought a cheetah would have a 4 or a 5 before I posted this, and he replied immediately, "5." So...that's what I'll use. To be honest, he thought a cheetah should almost have a 6, not a 5. He's also thinking of actually doing that, after seeing all of the above calcualtions. But that's his call, in the end.


I will also point out that my cheetah lost 3 points from strength and 2 from stamina when compared to the 'Great Cat' in gaining its unbalancing 5 dexterity. I don't think it's an issue...but if you don't like how I made the cheetah, you don't have to use my cheetah stats.

 

[Dracogryff]

I'd probably add a dot of strength and stamina for most eagles, though.

I wouldn't. Remember the stats are in human-scale. Eagles may be strong ...for birds.

That's a good point. Consider myself corrected...I forgot to look at it that way. Odds are I'd drop the strength to 1 for a falcon's stats, instead. Would probably make more sense.

 

[Persell]

You got some very unlogical conclusions in there, but pointing that out is besides the actual point I think.


Before your storyteller answered that question of yours, did he know a tiger has only dex 3? Probably not.


Furthermore, yes dexterity is obviously not the only thing factored into movement rates otherwise your 60 kph tiger would hardly have a dex of three. It is its natural grace that counts and great cats, of which the cheetah is one of them, are not all that graceful. Fast, yes, powerful, yes. But ever saw one of them hunting? It is pretty much hit or miss and they miss a lot of the time, too. Only going for the old and the weak. So, yes, a great cat is probably more graceful than your average human, but more than double so? or even more coordinated than demigods? hardly. Any terrestrial of some fighting education should outperform a great cat and those stats you got that hardly make that possible.

 

[Flyck]

I think a squirrel's bite attack should be 1 lethal, with an obscene rate of 3 or 4.  Ever picked one of those damned things up to pet it as a kid?

 

[Dracogryff]

You got some very unlogical conclusions in there, but pointing that out is besides the actual point I think.

Probably...all your prior arguements were stating it was illogical to have a 5 dex due to movement alone. I was trying to point out that using that as the only factor was silly. Movement in Exalted isn't very accurate.

Before your storyteller answered that question of yours, did he know a tiger has only dex 3? Probably not.

Yes he did. I made sure to point it out. He can defend himself on his opinions why, if he chooses, but he did indeed know for a fact I was basing things off the 'Great Cat' animal in the core book and that they have a 3 dexterity.

Furthermore, yes dexterity is obviously not the only thing factored into movement rates otherwise your 60 kph tiger would hardly have a dex of three. It is its natural grace that counts and great cats, of which the cheetah is one of them, are not all that graceful. Fast, yes, powerful, yes. But ever saw one of them hunting? It is pretty much hit or miss and they miss a lot of the time, too. Only going for the old and the weak. So, yes, a great cat is probably more graceful than your average human, but more than double so? or even more coordinated than demigods? hardly. Any terrestrial of some fighting education should outperform a great cat and those stats you got that hardly make that possible.

Well, all cats are hit and miss hunters. And that was why I asked my ST whether a cheetah should have a 5 before putting it out...and actually argued against the 6 he suggested myself. I felt a 5 was more than sufficient. I've also seen cheetahs make some pretty damn impressive turns and such without hardly losing speed when running all out, so they have some grace...and any terrestrial who's got some fighting capabilities won't be hit by the cat, and will likely murder it. It has all of a 4 DV (if that's hard to hit, I'm a monkey's uncle), and has 8 dice (which it can't add to) to hit with, with only 4L to damage them with. Most of the time, unless they're wearing very light or no armor, the cheetah won't even be able to ping them even if it could hit them. So it might be able to naturally outrun one in a foot race. Big whoop.


Dexterity isn't the only factor in being able to hit or miss someone or be the toughest thing on the block. A dragonblood could, unless completely incompetent at combat, probably take a cheetah down in one to two hits (it has only one lethal soak) without taking more than a couple points of damage, if that even. If the cheetah runs like a bitch...anyone with a few arrows will murder the kitty still. It's not tougher than a DB, or even a quarter as dangerous as one. So it has a 5 dex in games I'm in. You don't have to use my stats.


Edit: Oh and @ Flyck:


I haven't actually picked up a squirrel before, no...and I doubt they're able to bite up to 3 or 4 times a second...though it could have a lowered speed so it's biting faster than every 6 seconds...I don't know. I've picked up a few nasty gerbils and hampsters...and they certainly were quick little monsters, but I'm not sure quite that quick. And the bashing was the ST's suggestion. *chuckles*


Could make it speed 4 with a rate of 2 maybe...?

 

[Persell]

Meh, I am not going to argue whether a four or a five is the exact stat for a cheetah. It's close enough, lets just have a beer.

 

[Dracogryff]

Sounds like a plan to me...though I think I'll have a Daquiri instead of a beer, myself. Would rather avoid the stomachache beer gives me.

 

[Persell]

Whatever floats your boat really

 

[Gtroc]

in the new game out for white wolf, Scion, they have a list of animals. the stats seem to match up with exalted stats. if you wanted more canon-ish animal stats.