Fantasy Mess Hall (OOC)

[WayfaringWaaksian]

Safety Hammer
Laszlo becoming a major villain role at any point would be fine, actually. I don't see any conflicts between him and the arc I have planned. So whatever you had in mind, I can work around. Also welcome aboard, excited to have a new crewmate!


Kylesar1
The whole trial with Nancy... holy shit. So many emotions on this.

Spoiler: rambling

There's clearly a theme of mortals thinking on the individual scales vs gods thinking on a massive, multi-person scale. Of course the two won't truly understand each other, their actions, or what they deal with. But my GOD, does the Goddess have a listening problem, which Elaina so lovingly pointed out before. Nothing is more frustrating and heart-wrenching than a loved one misunderstanding your words. And using them against you! Not referring to the "You weren't acting like a Goddess" part, the general talking like he's thinking about himself when it's almost all about his sister.

And Jesus fuck, I didn't expect him to be literally stripped of his alchemical skills. Initially I freaked out because alchemy was going to be a key component in solving things (and he's going to be even more fucked up after this), but it might work better for the narrative. Nancy absolutely uses his skills as a crutch to make up for lack of self-worth, so this would force him to GENUINELY tackle that deep-rooted issue.

But I dunno, it physically hurts seeing literally everything being taken away from him. It's kind of my fault because I didn't realize he could just commune with her and talk to her openly, I thought the hearing was the only chance he'd have to talk with her. And as a follower he should know that, so in a way he's being punished for my lack of knowledge/foresight. I'm torn between talking about alternatives, or just rolling with it and saying Nancy was being foolish, because he... has a tendency towards that.

But... yeah. This causes me the most pain out of anything in this RP so far. I'm with Sebas, Divinity Law fucking sucks. When Followers fuck up, Gods get damage to their name. When Gods fuck up, it plays with the Follower's whole life. A good name is everything to a God, while a mortal's life is all they have. And Mariana has no choice but to play by these rules! I feel so bad for them both, Mariana is not going to be okay after this herself.
Mentally taxing it may be, it's fantastic narrative, I approve

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

Kylesar1

Ok I decided, Nancy will suffer. I love how Goddess is doing literally everything she can to help him against a ruthless system, and the damn fool keeps self-sabotaging. Uh... good learning lesson? After he's processed this shit and found some sense of stability. Wasn't meaning for a pot calling the kettle black scenario, because Nancy absolutely has his own issues listening to people (though it's a little different in the way he struggles with it).

But I wanted a few clarifications on what exactly the knowledge block pertains. When you say alchemy, is it ONLY alchemy? Like, does he still have his knowledge on flora regarding cultivation, basic herbal remedies, floriography, general facts about the plant/fungi itself? Without any knowledge on how it can be used for alchemical means, that is. Such as, knowing the season and germination of a specific seed, but not knowing that it can be used in certain potions for an effect?

 

[Kylesar1]

WayfaringWaaksian

I saw the heretical words part and it took a LOT. I was thinking "I know I said I'd only do the exile, but there is no way in hell those words can fly. It CAN'T fly especially since all eyes were on her, questioning her competence. It's like an overcompensation to prevent another failure. Like she can't afford a miscarriage of justice under Divinity Law

Of course, Elaina is about to have a field day with it. She's been telling the Goddess this the whole time about her listening problem and She is not taking it because they come from a witch.

I tried to keep with the theme of all 3 of them being horrible at listening. Maybe there's not enough water between their ears

But I dunno, it physically hurts seeing literally everything being taken away from him. It's kind of my fault because I didn't realize he could just commune with her and talk to her openly, I thought the hearing was the only chance he'd have to talk with her. And as a follower he should know that, so in a way he's being punished for my lack of knowledge/foresight. I'm torn between talking about alternatives, or just rolling with it and saying Nancy was being foolish, because he... has a tendency towards that.

The knowledge that he COULD commune period probably would've influenced his words, but Nancy can't INITIATE a commune with the Goddess. Since he's a Null, his prayers won't reach. He can only receive, not send. The only way he could do it is to ask someone to initiate on his behalf. Either that, or just ask the Goddess in person which wouldn't have happened in that trial

That's why I forced him into a commune after the fact. It's so he can be given the chance to clarify his statements to drop the heresy charge so we can stick to the original punishment of just the exile

It's giving a way out without letting those words just fly




As for the alchemy thing, you got it right. General facts, how to grow, etc. are kept. How it's used in alchemy is sealed and has to be rediscovered. Knowledge about plants used specifically/primarily for alchemy are sealed. How they're grown for alchemy are sealed (like if there's a special growth/breeding method to get stronger potions, it's sealed). Things like chemistry, what is and isn't dangerous to mix are sealed. What plants are poisonous? Kept. How to make that poison more/less potent? Sealed

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

Kylesar1

As a player, I apologize for constantly making my characters do stupid shit and then feel sad about it, lmao. Sometimes I can't help but test the waters to see how brutal the consequence is. Like way back during the Golden Guns raid, I was tempted to have Fergie try to figure out the Negative Zone on her own to see what kind of fucked up shit would happen. But when you directly warned against it, I decided some things were better left to the imagination.

I tried to keep with the theme of all 3 of them being horrible at listening. Maybe there's not enough water between their ears

Nancy and Nellie cried out all the water, and now there's just mush in their brains. Just dunk 'em both in some Holy Water for a night.

The knowledge that he COULD commune period probably would've influenced his words, but Nancy can't INITIATE a commune with the Goddess.

Things like chemistry, what is and isn't dangerous to mix are sealed. What plants are poisonous? Kept. How to make that poison more/less potent? Sealed

Thanks for the clarification on things! That helps a lot. As for what Nancy said, I'll just roll with things. I got new ideas.

That's why I forced him into a commune after the fact. It's so he can be given the chance to clarify his statements to drop the heresy charge so we can stick to the original punishment of just the exile

It's giving a way out without letting those words just fly

I have an idea regarding this. Thinking about everything overnight, I got really attached to the idea of Nancy being forced to see his value in things outside of his bread and butter. But from a RP perspective, I didn't like the idea of playing Nancy from the ground up in a sense, as that's already his arc in Guild. Plus, I feel bad for the poor idiot and want to toss him a bone.

Instead of all memories being permanently sealed until he cures his condition, what if they were unlocked piece by piece when certain milestones are met? The milestones would relate to his psyche, his self-worth, mental health, those sorts of things. Nancy tends to self-isolate and bury himself in his work, so take that away, and he would be forced to contend with why. Goddess wouldn't have to completely drop the charge, but she also wouldn't have to make Nancy suffer the whole punishment.

For example, a baseline improvement to his mental health (ie, not wanting to die) would return his knowledge of alchemy basics. Taking an opportunity to build himself up instead of tearing himself down would steadily open up more advanced knowledge. And to return all of his knowledge and memories, he has to erase his self-hatred and finally love himself.

On the converse, doing something to harm himself or self-sabotage would seal up those memories again. It could be a step backwards, or completely reverse all progress, depending on the severity. It would serve as a deterrent from self-sabotage as much as an incentive to improve himself. That's the pro, though an obvious con would be the extra blow to psyche damage when he hurts himself AND loses access to knowledge he worked hard to regain.

Thematically I enjoy the message, and it sounds fun to play out. What are your thoughts, though?

 

[Kylesar1]

I have an idea regarding this. Thinking about everything overnight, I got really attached to the idea of Nancy being forced to see his value in things outside of his bread and butter. But from a RP perspective, I didn't like the idea of playing Nancy from the ground up in a sense, as that's already his arc in Guild. Plus, I feel bad for the poor idiot and want to toss him a bone.

Instead of all memories being permanently sealed until he cures his condition, what if they were unlocked piece by piece when certain milestones are met? The milestones would relate to his psyche, his self-worth, mental health, those sorts of things. Nancy tends to self-isolate and bury himself in his work, so take that away, and he would be forced to contend with why. Goddess wouldn't have to completely drop the charge, but she also wouldn't have to make Nancy suffer the whole punishment.

For example, a baseline improvement to his mental health (ie, not wanting to die) would return his knowledge of alchemy basics. Taking an opportunity to build himself up instead of tearing himself down would steadily open up more advanced knowledge. And to return all of his knowledge and memories, he has to erase his self-hatred and finally love himself.

On the converse, doing something to harm himself or self-sabotage would seal up those memories again. It could be a step backwards, or completely reverse all progress, depending on the severity. It would serve as a deterrent from self-sabotage as much as an incentive to improve himself. That's the pro, though an obvious con would be the extra blow to psyche damage when he hurts himself AND loses access to knowledge he worked hard to regain.

Thematically I enjoy the message, and it sounds fun to play out. What are your thoughts, though?

That sounds very much in line with mercy, a compromise between redeemable and very punishing without treading ground we're already treading. I'll work it in

 

[Kylesar1]

WayfaringWaaksian

Also, I'm developing the exact LORE around why/how the Goddess ended up Daedric, like the actual detailed story itself. It won't be revealed now (as we'll push it along since this is the last thing in the arc) but it might come into play later. I say this because Nancy is going to experience the story since he'll have to swim through the Abyss to actually get this compromise

The TL; DR for it though is that Mariana has to be almost irredeemably cruel to her enemies to protect herself, her followers, and her Godhood. It is through this experience that she had to stop simply protecting and start Oppressing the ones who wanted to take from her

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

Kylesar1
Btw, I still would like Nancy to have the chance to clarify his words. Not sure if what he meant would have flown either, but it's LEAGUES better than how it came across. I figured you would, but I just wanna make sure.

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

Nancy rn

 

[Kylesar1]

WayfaringWaaksian

That's how it felt when I read it. I was questioning how the hell can I go about it in a way that isn't gonna make him off himself while keeping to all sides of Mariana (Holy god, Daedric lord, mother)

The only way I could think of was make him choose the path himself since he is asking to be treated as 2 polar opposite things at once in his desperation

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

Kylesar1

This is actually the best call, I think. Help only goes so far as Nancy is willing to accept it. At a certain point, he can only help himself, which will especially be true after exile. Like Elaina said to Ves, if he thinks he deserves to die, he will out there. Goddess giving him a choice will make him confront the indecision and realize what he wants on a deep, soul level.

Before I finish my post though, I wanted to ask. What exactly was heretical about what he said? I figure it was because it sounded like he was questioning her merit as a Goddess, but I want to make sure. Followers can say that she made a mistake, but there's obviously a cutoff point where saying such things is heresy. I just want to know where the line is drawn because I don't want Nancy to commit any more offenses.

 

[Kylesar1]

WayfaringWaaksian
Not only questioning her merit as Goddess, but trying to tell her what of her actions is or isn't the actions of a Goddess. What sealed it to me as BEING heresy though was the thing about it being fair that he acted more like a witch than a follower

It probably would've passed had Nancy just left it at "I went astray because you violated my trust in you as a protecting Goddess." Him expecting the Goddess to protect Nellie is one thing. The issue is that things kind of went beyond pointing that out

What constitutes heresy is largely subjective though. If Fergie ever expresses wanting to learn to read, it could be heresy in some circles lmao

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

Kylesar1
Gotcha. Nancy gettin' a little spicy, mouthing off at the wrong person at the wrong time. He and Fergie will have interesting conversations.

speaking of whom, Fergie would learn to read just to spite those circles

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

Also, I'll get a post out for Guild eventually! Sorry for the hangup on that, it's just kinda hard to write Nancy being exceedingly happy at the same time as writing him having the lowest point in his life. Tone difference, and such.

 

[Kylesar1]

Also, I'll get a post out for Guild eventually! Sorry for the hangup on that, it's just kinda hard to write Nancy being exceedingly happy at the same time as writing him having the lowest point in his life. Tone difference, and such.

No problem. I had the same problem with Demi which is why I delayed on it for as long as I did. Plus, it gives me time to flesh out the details of the mission and its implications

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

No problem. I had the same problem with Demi which is why I delayed on it for as long as I did. Plus, it gives me time to flesh out the details of the mission and its implications

If that's the case, I might try to finish Zeltzin's ref (Nancy's mentor) first. I still have things to flesh out with her though. It depends on where inspiration takes me.

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

Kylesar1
I was going to write a long-ass scene with Nancy battling his inner demons, but I wanted to cater that based on the immediate response the Abyss and "Mariana's worst" will have to his presence. Long-ass scene where Nancy makes his choice will come next.

 

[Kylesar1]

WayfaringWaaksian
I'm just going ahead and skipping the Basenjis since nothing is going to happen with them until this scene is over. That way I can go ahead and put my full focus on it
Also, I had a bunch of fun writing about the Abyss. Having to describe it without being able to describe any kind of landscape was kind of a new experience

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

WayfaringWaaksian
I'm just going ahead and skipping the Basenjis since nothing is going to happen with them until this scene is over. That way I can go ahead and put my full focus on it
Also, I had a bunch of fun writing about the Abyss. Having to describe it without being able to describe any kind of landscape was kind of a new experience

It's super cool. 10/10 would visit for summer vacation to beat the heat

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

Also, I half-expected Lostro to be like, "Woah, cool!" at Nancy literally dying from Daedric Oppression, lmao.

 

[Kylesar1]

Also, I half-expected Lostro to be like, "Woah, cool!" at Nancy literally dying from Daedric Oppression, lmao.

My initial draft had exactly that. Awestruck intrigue and then, with a question from Elaina, Lostro ultimately saying that to end the commune, one can just force Nancy awake, which Elaina would then pull out a species of Mirage Flower to offer it. Sebas would be struggling to keep a horrified Orabelle at bay from trying to rush over and help, hence why Lostro could make the out of pocket comments anyways

I just wanted to keep the spotlight on the Kraiven side, which is why I ultimately went with Mariah over Lostro

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

Kylesar1

During communes, is the subject still clothed or do they have nothing on? Since souls seem to follow the physical limitations of their bodies while in the Spirit Realm, I realized Nancy probably shouldn't be speaking unless he has the Trace crystal. Otherwise, I'll edit all his dialogue to be in scent-speak (still working on the technical term). No change to the dialogue itself, it'll just be to keep things consistent.

 

[Kylesar1]

WayfaringWaaksian
It'll be whatever's most comfortable for the one communing, so long as it's their "true form" which only applies to those that can shape shift.

As for the speech, he's communing so his trace relic works freely. If he could holy enhance his eyesight, he can use the Trace Relic freely

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

WayfaringWaaksian
It'll be whatever's most comfortable for the one communing, so long as it's their "true form" which only applies to those that can shape shift.

As for the speech, he's communing so his trace relic works freely. If he could holy enhance his eyesight, he can use the Trace Relic freely

Alrighty. I'll just edit the font then, after I get my post out.

 

[WayfaringWaaksian]

Merry Christmas to Goddess Mariana, who just got the gift of realizing she set a bad example for her child who's having a rebellious phase.

 

[Kylesar1]

Mariana is lucky her kids aren't rightfully dissenting