Viewpoint Where do your roleplays fall on the Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism?

[BackSet]

There is something known as The Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism. It's a bit arbitrary and doesn't have definitive numbers or such like, say, the Ph scale (for those of you who aren't there yet or forgot middle and high school science, the Ph Scale is a measure of how Basic or Acidic a liquid is) but it's there. I'm nkt sure exactly how to sum it up so just click the link (if you have several hours of free time) to understand if you do not.

Now, to the question: Where do your roleplays usually fall on this scale.

For me, I tend to be closer to the idealist side, where things are generally positive and the world is generally a pretty good place all things considered. However, not everything is idealistic and when it comes to bad guys, a bullet to the head will work much better than the power of friendship. And, of course, there are plenty of bad spots just in general. Even an idealistic world has slums and poverty. The only difference is that they can be fixed with work and effort.

 

[Crayons]

There is something known as The Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism. It's a bit arbitrary and doesn't have definitive numbers or such like, say, the Ph scale (for those of you who aren't there yet or forgot middle and high school science, the Ph Scale is a measure of how Basic or Acidic a liquid is) but it's there. I'm nkt sure exactly how to sum it up so just click the link (if you have several hours of free time) to understand if you do not.

Now, to the question: Where do your roleplays usually fall on this scale.

For me, I tend to be closer to the idealist side, where things are generally positive and the world is generally a pretty good place all things considered. However, not everything is idealistic and when it comes to bad guys, a bullet to the head will work much better than the power of friendship. And, of course, there are plenty of bad spots just in general. Even an idealistic world has slums and poverty. The only difference is that they can be fixed with work and effort.

Heavily tend towards cynicism if I'm involved in the worldbuilding. However I love the shit out of Power of Friendship as a trope and having a cynical world in which everyone is plotting for their own best interest means you need Power of Friendship more than ever! Cynicism can definitely go too far (I would not want to RP in the Rick and Mortyverse), but I love a world in which good guys and bad guys are morally grey and that there is no true justice. Strangely, I love playing idealistic characters in a cynical world. Which may say something about me, I dunno.

 

[BackSet]

Strangely, I love playing idealistic characters in a cynical world.

Ironically, I'm the opposite with cynical characters in an idealistic world.

Big idealistic world? Hello, my name is Mr. Cynic and I hate the human race.

 

[Crayons]

Ironically, I'm the opposite with cynical characters in an idealistic world.

Big idealistic world? Hello, my name is Mr. Cynic and I hate the human race.

I guess we both love conflict. XD

 

[laceanddoodles]

Heavily tend towards cynicism if I'm involved in the worldbuilding. However I love the shit out of Power of Friendship as a trope and having a cynical world in which everyone is plotting for their own best interest means you need Power of Friendship more than ever! Cynicism can definitely go too far (I would not want to RP in the Rick and Mortyverse), but I love a world in which good guys and bad guys are morally grey and that there is no true justice. Strangely, I love playing idealistic characters in a cynical world. Which may say something about me, I dunno.

Ooooooo, okay. Absolutely same. My weakness with roleplay (and writing in general) is idealist characters in a cynical world. I absolutely adore characters who are kind and patient and lovely in the face of an unforgiving world and awful circumstances. I love writing selfless characters, characters who are more than willing to lay down their lives for the greater good, and forge deep bonds with people along the way. Show me that unbreakable human spirit!! Show me somebody who mutters "Invictus" by William Ernest Henley under their breath when everything goes wrong. I love pacifist characters who come into situations where anyone else would shoot first and ask questions later, and throw everyone off by extending an olive branch and peaceful solution to the enemies.

That makes for such good storytelling. A story is a struggle of the heart, and an idealist character in a cynical world has so much to struggle against, and is so vulnerable to getting hurt. That's another one of my weaknesses, slowly breaking down the Idealist to see how long/what it would take to shift their views until they're more closely aligned with the world at large.

 

[Crayons]

Ooooooo, okay. Absolutely same. My weakness with roleplay (and writing in general) is idealist characters in a cynical world. I absolutely adore characters who are kind and patient and lovely in the face of an unforgiving world and awful circumstances. I love writing selfless characters, characters who are more than willing to lay down their lives for the greater good, and forge deep bonds with people along the way. Show me that unbreakable human spirit!! Show me somebody who mutters "Invictus" by William Ernest Henley under their breath when everything goes wrong. I love pacifist characters who come into situations where anyone else would shoot first and ask questions later, and throw everyone off by extending an olive branch and peaceful solution to the enemies.

That makes for such good storytelling. A story is a struggle of the heart, and an idealist character in a cynical world has so much to struggle against, and is so vulnerable to getting hurt. That's another one of my weaknesses, slowly breaking down the Idealist to see how long/what it would take to shift their views until they're more closely aligned with the world at large.

Yessssssssss..... omg.

 

[BackSet]

I guess we both love conflict. XD

Yeah. Recently I've been trying to branch out, though.

To be honest, while I play a lot of cynicists and write a lot of characters who are cynicists in my own works, I also like the idea of a character who is always Idealist and almost never breaks no matter what and rarely gets mad. Sure there are times where they give up hope or get angry, but they always recover from that.

So I guess I just want to play Phineas Flynn.

 

[laceanddoodles]

Yessssssssss..... omg.

That's why one of my favorite D&D classes is the paladin. I love the oath system as subclasses, because it almost forces you to write an idealist. My first paladin was literally a dryder, following the oath of devotion (courage, honor, honesty, duty, and compassion). Those five tenants were the core of how she navigated through the world, and when times were hard, they were what she drew on to get through it.

And like, the concept of an oathbreaker paladin?? Genius. There's so much there, thinking about what might of made them break their oath, and how. Like, oath of the ancients (kindle the light, shelter the light, preserve your own light, be the light) is all about bringing hope and light and joy to people, and one of the tenants is that you can't lose that hope within yourself, because if you do, how can you give it to other people? So, if an Ancients paladin loses hope... they're an oathbreaker. I love that.

 

[BackSet]

You know, I've always found it weird that people think being a Paladin means being good. To me being a Paladin has always just meant being Lawful. And there are plenty of Lawful Evil gods out there to follow (that's their thing, right? Like, less squishy clerics). Sure, call them a blackguard or whatever. They're still Paladins.

Like, to use a Forgotten Realms example, a Paladin can't follow Malar, god of the hunt, because he's Chaotic Evil. But they could follow Bane, the god of war, because he's Lawful Evil. Being a Paladin is about having a code, not about specifically doing good.

 

[laceanddoodles]

Ooooooo, okay.

You know, I've always found it weird that people think being a Paladin means being good. To me being a Paladin has always just meant being Lawful. And there are plenty of Lawful Evil gods out there to follow (that's their thing, right? Like, less squishy clerics). Sure, call them a blackguard or whatever. They're still Paladins.

Like, to use a Forgotten Realms example, a Paladin can't follow Malar, god of the hunt, because he's Chaotic Evil. But they could follow Bane, the god of war, because he's Lawful Evil. Being a Paladin is about having a code, not about specifically doing good.

I hear you. The oath of Conquest was pretty much built for evil paladins. It's the fault of 5e for saying they have to be lawful good. But I'm not going to lie, I really do love the "good" oaths.

 

[BackSet]

I'm also not a fan of Paladins because most of the Paladins I've seen are either lawful good to a fault, stuck up pricks, or both.

Honestly, if I'm going to play an idealist dharacter I much prefer eithe Neutral or Chaotic Good characters (with a heavy lean towards Chaotic) because it's more fun. While a Lawful Good character doesn't have to follow the laws, only a code (which usually involves dollowing the laws) Chaotic Good characters don't have to do that at all. They can be good, even if the law might prevent them from doing good (The only artifact that can stop the Big Bad is locked away in the palace vaults and the king won't give it to us? Guess it's time to plan a caper).

 

[still watching fma]

The rps I run are based on hope, but that's because the only way to overcome the bad guys is to cling to it. lololoolool

 

[BackSet]

The rps I run are based on hope, but that's because the only way to overcome the bad guys is to cling to it. lololoolool

I can't tell if you're serious or not.

 

[still watching fma]

I can't tell if you're serious or not.

survival games. If everyone lost hope, they'd all just die

 

[BackSet]

survival games. If everyone lost hope, they'd all just die

Ah. Okay, then. I couldn't tell if you were serious because you tacked on a very long "lol" on the end, which usually does not indicate someone being serious (it almost sounds pretentious sometimes).

 

[still watching fma]

Ah. Okay, then. I couldn't tell if you were serious because you tacked on a very long "lol" on the end, which usually does not indicate someone being serious (it almost sounds pretentious sometimes).

Reading too much into it. I almost put that on my posts by habit.

 

[Crayons]

Chaotic good = best alignment, I love my rogues-with-a-heart! But there is something to be said for giving your character a wacky religion and making them stick resolutely to it no matter what.

 

[BackSet]

Chaotic good = best alignment, I love my rogues-with-a-heart! But there is something to be said for giving your character a wacky religion and making them stick resolutely to it no matter what.

Tropology is the best religion.

 

[Grey]

Like most cynics, I'm a disappointed optimist. So my settings are often very cynical, but with varying degrees of hope for change. For example, my flagship Crucible: Dark Age is a grim world full of monsters, oppression, and inequality - but it's explicitly about conflict and sacrifice in the name of a more just world.

 

[iseelight]

This is kind of a tough one for me... my characters tend to be cynics/pessimists. I myself am an idealist. I am also a glutton for conflict and hostile settings lol. I like to throw absolutely every bad thing I can think of at my characters. I like to show that the world can be a terrible, cruel place, but also that the only countermeasure to such an environment is belief in ideals and faith in humanity. My characters are usually forced to learn this in some form, at some point. I feel like it's illustrated best if I first show how bad things can be.

I find morally gray/ambiguous protagonists infinitely more worthwhile than villains, since they can develop so dramatically. I don't find it that fun to start off with a character who already knows the lesson I want to impart lol. Plus, I don't want to villainize cynicism/pessimism by making it a trait of the "villain." I also have a huge weak spot for characters who want so badly to stay soft and kind and optimistic but they have a breaking point. Or that breaking point has already happened and they're trying to fake it til they make it.

 

[BackSet]

Yeah I stopped the whole morally gray (anti-)hero thing after a while cause I just kind of got sick of it. Not only was my own writing wth it dull and uninspired but it shows up literally everywhere. And that includes other rpers. Someone's gotta play the unambiguous idealistic upbeat hero to balance them all out.

I would like to point out that Cynicism doesn't make someone morally gray, to those pointing at me and calling me a hypocrite for playing cynisist characters as often (if not more so) as idealistic ones. Most of my cynic characters are heroes, without a modifier. Sure they're not the most positive people in the world and they could stand to lighten up but they're definitely heroes with morals and sometimes a bit of a hero complex. It's kind of like Batman, actually (well, the good versions in any case). Sure he may brood a lot and is rather negative and sometimes is definitely a downright cynic but unless he's being written by Frank Miller or some other crazy person, he's honest to god one of the most heroic characters out there and will do his best to do the right thing.

Does this make sense or are these just the mad 8PM ramblings of an amateur writer.

 

[still watching fma]

Yeah I stopped the whole morally gray (anti-)hero thing after a while cause I just kind of got sick of it. Not only was my own writing wth it dull and uninspired but it shows up literally everywhere. And that includes other rpers. Someone's gotta play the unambiguous idealistic upbeat hero to balance them all out.

What do you mean by anti-hero? Is it like the superman that splattered a robber to save 40 hostages in a bank? Is it the guy that shoots to kill and is usually admonished by the fella who wanted to show mercy? Do enlighten me as I never really understood the concept of an anti-hero.

As for unambigeous idealism, that is actually interesting and far more frightening than an anti-hero. Anti-heroes are akin to chaotic neutral. What you just described can be a religious zealot killing the wicked witches because they're followers of satan. Only to find out they were just pagans. Or the soldier that kills first, asks questions later. Rarely is life ever a matter of good and bad. A situation like taking down stalin or the young turks, is an exception to the rule. Heros in real life are taking on other people who could be heroes and are fighting for their own stake in this world. There is no such thing as an absolute good, because every action you take in this world, inevitably takes from someone else. You can't go beat a bad guy without realizing that you're his bad guy and that you're potentially leaving a family sonless or fatherless.

An idealist doesn't care about these morally ambigous things. They will just plow through and slaughter everything without a second thought, if that action is thought to be good. So I don't see where the balance comes in. lol

 

[Crayons]

I also have a huge weak spot for characters who want so badly to stay soft and kind and optimistic but they have a breaking point. Or that breaking point has already happened and they're trying to fake it til they make it.

Characters like this are gold.

 

[Grey]

Do enlighten me as I never really understood the concept of an anti-hero.

The quick version would be a protagonist opposing a 'greater' evil using questionable methods or with questionable motives (Frank Castle is a good example).
There's a great line by Terry Pratchett: "Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things." Arguably an anti-hero is someone with that mindset, but their goals are broadly altruistic, so Ozymandias/Adrian Veidt from Watchmen is also a reasonable example.

 

[still watching fma]

The quick version would be a protagonist opposing a 'greater' evil using questionable methods or with questionable motives (Frank Castle is a good example).
There's a great line by Terry Pratchett: "Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things." Arguably an anti-hero is someone with that mindset, but their goals are broadly altruistic, so Ozymandias/Adrian Veidt from Watchmen is also a reasonable example.

So it's a means to an end hero?