Other What is your mind blowing answer to existence?

[Larry]

@IdeaI thought I was the only Roman Catholic on this site, nice to see that there are more! Aye, I concur with everything you have said thus far. For God has created all things, so that His glory may be known to all and that all may partake in the divine life, to see God as He is, face-to-face.

 

[Eye of Nowhere]

However, you are missing something important: Roman Catholics revere the pope as infallible. This means that , in matters of spirituality and religion, the Pope is what we take as the right interpretation of God's will. This is because we believe the Pope to be elected under the influence of the Holy Ghost, Just as St. Peter, the first pope, was chosen by Jesus Himself. 


Yet, even if you don't know God you can still commit an action against his will. You don't have to have conscience of what you're doing to be against his will, only to have conscience of the full extent of the action you as choosing to take. 

I don't miss the point that catholics choose to believe the pope is infalliable. I simply don't believe this to be true. Nor do I believe in the necessity of ritual practices and ceremonies like prayer and sacraments. But this does clarify your perception of sin.  Thank you.  


To shed some light on what I believe to be important in matter of faith and spirituality, I'd like to refer to a statement of the 14th Dalai lama. 


"There is no need for temples.  No need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are temples.  My philosophy is kidness." 


I believe that this man has a point.  Spending time on prayer and worship and all the little rules popes, rabbis, imams or any other religious figure came up with in their time, doesn't make you a good person. I'd say there's plenty of people who have proven quite the opposite. And I don't just mean the terrorists. 


On matters of sin:


I believe that a sin is any act that makes you, objectively speaking, into a bad person. Some of the common rules around sin will apply. Don't harm people unless you have no other choice to defend yourself or others. Don't steal from people. Be kind to those less fortunate. Be a good person in general. 


Anything that doesn't bring factual harm to yourself or others, in my opinion, isn't sin. For example: People's sexual orientation. People getting intimate without a little ceremonial promise. People who don't share your view on things. All these aren't sinners. They're people who live life their way.  A colleague of mine is shunned by her entire family because she chose her boyfriend over the strict religious rules of the Jehova's witnesses. To me, the family are sinners, not their daughter. They spread unkindness through their rules.  They look down at unbelievers.  


There's also the people who gather in church every sunday. They sing praises to their Gods with all the power their voices can handle. They see a beggar and they call him a filthy slob, who brought it on himself. Perhaps he did, perhaps in part. Does it matter?


Now, I have to add that i don't believe in little gestures. The help these people need should come from society as a whole. Finding structural solutions to care for the sick, the poor and so forth. Giving them some change won't help their predicament. It's temporary relief at best. 


On a final  note, I also believe that if people follow a religion only because they want the salvation that is promised to them, there is a problem.  Is this faith?  Or, is this simple control by dangling reward and punishment in front of someone's nose? 

 

[Idea]

don't miss the point that catholics choose to believe the pope is infalliable. I simply don't believe this to be true. Nor do I believe in the necessity of ritual practices and ceremonies like prayer and sacraments. But this does clarify your perception of sin.  Thank you.  

I said you were missing the point because your criticism pointed to the lack of quality in the interpretation of the bible, to which I responded that we believe our source in it´s interpretation to be an infallible one given being in direct contact/inspiration with God.

Anything that doesn't bring factual harm to yourself or others, in my opinion, isn't sin. For example: People's sexual orientation. People getting intimate without a little ceremonial promise. People who don't share your view on things. All these aren't sinners. They're people who live life their way.  A colleague of mine is shunned by her entire family because she chose her boyfriend over the strict religious rules of the Jehova's witnesses. To me, the family are sinners, not their daughter. They spread unkindness through their rules.  They look down at unbelievers.  

If I may offer some criticism of my own: what makes a bad person? What classifies as "harm"?


 Is there an extensive list that defines it, and if so, what´s the source? Or is there no list and is it simply arbitrary or vague? And if it is the latter, how can it be objective?

There's also the people who gather in church every sunday. They sing praises to their Gods with all the power their voices can handle. They see a beggar and they call him a filthy slob, who brought it on himself. Perhaps he did, perhaps in part. Does it matter?

That is no attitude the church supports. Just throwing it out there.

On a final  note, I also believe that if people follow a religion only because they want the salvation that is promised to them, there is a problem.  Is this faith?  Or, is this simple control by dangling reward and punishment in front of someone's nose? 

I agree that you can´t have faith just because you want salvation. However, workshipping because you want salvation is perfectly fine.

@IdeaI thought I was the only Roman Catholic on this site, nice to see that there are more! Aye, I concur with everything you have said thus far. For God has created all things, so that His glory may be known to all and that all may partake in the divine life, to see God as He is, face-to-face.

You´d be surprised how many there actually are  

 

[Larry]

On a final  note, I also believe that if people follow a religion only because they want the salvation that is promised to them, there is a problem.  Is this faith?  Or, is this simple control by dangling reward and punishment in front of someone's nose? 

While I do understand your position, it is not necessarily the truth. I can imagine you've heard the phrase, "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom"? While the fear of damnation is an impetus for further belief in God, it should not be the primary reason; the love we have for Christ and His Holy Church and a desire for heaven should rule over our fear of hell. People tend to emphasise the latter due to passages such as the way to salvation being a narrow path and few tread it. However, we are not to presume about the fate of others, for that is a sin in and of itself, for such knowledge belongs to God alone. 


Also, @Idea, do you know any more Catholics on this site? I'd love to have a talk with ye sometime!

 

[Eye of Nowhere]

I said you were missing the point because your criticism pointed to the lack of quality in the interpretation of the bible, to which I responded that we believe our source in it´s interpretation to be an infallible one given being in direct contact/inspiration with God.

The Bible itself is merely a collection of stories with an implied moral meaning, written by a collection of people and editted many times over the course of centuries.  

If I may offer some criticism of my own: what makes a bad person? What classifies as "harm"?


 Is there an extensive list that defines it, and if so, what´s the source? Or is there no list and is it simply arbitrary or vague? And if it is the latter, how can it be objective?

Harm: Physical or mental damage. Mental damage, in my opinion, in the sense that there is a profound and undeniable impact on the person's life. Example: Bullying someone, making them the object of public ridicule, which develops into mental issues such as depression and suicidal tendencies. Being offended does not count as damage, no matter how you overreact. Yes, there is a grey zone of people who will overreact to the point that they claim depression, some of whom might actually become depressed. 


I would also like to point out that nothing in the field of morality is truely objective.  Just look at the cultural differences between people. 


I also believe there is a component of intention.  If you had no purposeful intent to harm someone, it isn't a sin. It's an accident. 

I agree that you can´t have faith just because you want salvation. However, workshipping because you want salvation is perfectly fine.

That is a self-contradictory statement, better known as an oxymoron, to me. 

 

[Idea]

The Bible itself is merely a collection of stories with an implied moral meaning, written by a collection of people and editted many times over the course of centuries.  

Yes, that is correct. Hence the need for the church, lead by the Pope, to tell us what that meaning is.

Harm: Physical or mental damage. Mental damage, in my opinion, in the sense that there is a profound and undeniable impact on the person's life. Example: Bullying someone, making them the object of public ridicule, which develops into mental issues such as depression and suicidal tendencies. Being offended does not count as damage, no matter how you overreact. Yes, there is a grey zone of people who will overreact to the point that they claim depression, some of whom might actually become depressed.

I see. Hmmm, interesting.

I would also like to point out that nothing in the field of morality is truely objective.  Just look at the cultural differences between people. 

I respectfully disagree. People having disagreements as to what is morally correct or not has absolutely 0 impact in what is or not correct and assuming (rather than concluding) otherwise would make the argument circular.


Furthermore, logically speaking, it´s not possible for something of that nature to be subjective and being subjective would strip morality of all meaning.


There are more reasons, but I think these two will do for now.

That is a self-contradictory statement, better known as an oxymoron, to me

workshipping is the actions you practice because you believe, faith is the belief itself. One should have faith, that is, believe in God, for reasons of calling or reasoning, but it´s perfectly to, from there, workship God in search for Salvation.

 

[Eye of Nowhere]

While I do understand your position, it is not necessarily the truth. I can imagine you've heard the phrase, "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom"? While the fear of damnation is an impetus for further belief in God, it should not be the primary reason; the love we have for Christ and His Holy Church and a desire for heaven should rule over our fear of hell. People tend to emphasise the latter due to passages such as the way to salvation being a narrow path and few tread it. However, we are not to presume about the fate of others, for that is a sin in and of itself, for such knowledge belongs to God alone. 

Actually, I haven't heard that phrase. It doesn't make any sense to me, now that I have read it. Wisdom does not spring forth from fear. Wisdom is the extension upon knowledge, where one knows what to do with it. I believe that the universe ahs a purpose for the ones inside of it. God waits beyond.

 

[Larry]

Actually, I haven't heard that phrase. It doesn't make any sense to me, now that I have read it. Wisdom does not spring forth from fear. Wisdom is the extension upon knowledge, where one knows what to do with it. I believe that the universe ahs a purpose for the ones inside of it. God waits beyond.

It comes from Proverbs 9:10, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Fear is often used interchangeably within Catholic tradition with that of healthy respect for the commandments of God. For upon such fear/respect, one transitions into love of God and his commandments. It is a stepping stone, for lack of a better phrase. 

 

[Idea]

Also, @Idea, do you know any more Catholics on this site? I'd love to have a talk with ye sometime!

while I do know some, in the light sense of the expression, I at most talked to a couple. There was a thread discussion called "what´s your religion?" and a number claimed to be roman catholics.

 

[Eye of Nowhere]

I respectfully disagree. People having disagreements as to what is morally correct or not has absolutely 0 impact in what is or not correct and assuming (rather than concluding) otherwise would make the argument circular.


Furthermore, logically speaking, it´s not possible for something of that nature to be subjective and being subjective would strip morality of all meaning.


There are more reasons, but I think these two will do for now.

Then we shall agree to disagree.  Here's why:


Morality is based on the "norm".  i.e:  The collective understanding of the majority on what is acceptable behaviour within the society they live in. This norm isn't an objective fact, it is a subjective understanding. This norm changes over time and based on cultural and religious aspects. It is filled with so-called grey zones where people aren't sure what's good or bad.  


The fact that it is subjective doesn't deprive morality of all meaning. It is simply a set of rules the majority agrees upon. 

 

[Larry]

while I do know some, in the light sense of the expression, I at most talked to a couple. There was a thread discussion called "what´s your religion?" and a number claimed to be roman catholics.

Yeah, I tend to be quite wary of people who do, especially on sites such as this, for fear that they might be lukewarm or lapsed. I hope you do not correspond to either of those categories my friend!

 

[Idea]

Then we shall agree to disagree.  Here's why:


Morality is based on the "norm".  i.e:  The collective understanding of the majority on what is acceptable behaviour within the society they live in. This norm isn't an objective fact, it is a subjective understanding. This norm changes over time and based on cultural and religious aspects. It is filled with so-called grey zones where people aren't sure what's good or bad.  


The fact that it is subjective doesn't deprive morality of all meaning. It is simply a set of rules the majority agrees upon. 

You say morality is based on the norm, but that is an assumption. Just that.


And it does deprive it of all meaning. If morality is just what si acceptable, then why would anyone be punishable or praisable for it?


To put in strawman form:


"Wow, congrats on being so normal!"

Yeah, I tend to be quite wary of people who do, especially on sites such as this, for fear that they might be lukewarm or lapsed. I hope you do not correspond to either of those categories my friend!

Not entirely sure of what either of those words mean, but I also hope I don´t disappoint. Always up for talking if ya want to.

 

[Eye of Nowhere]

And it does deprive it of all meaning. If morality is just what si acceptable, then why would anyone be punishable or praisable for it?

Mortality: Set of accepted rules


Praise and punishment: Method to assure compliance to set of rules. 

 

[Idea]

Mortality: Set of accepted rules


Praise and punishment: Method to assure compliance to set of rules. 

so basically morality= what law is supposed to be?

 

[Count Gensokyo]

As stated above we don't know that something can't come from nothing.

That's almost impossible for me to wrap my head around.


0 x 1 is still 0. It's the same concept to me. There is no way for the universe, a material object, to have just spontaneously created itself without the existence of time, space, or anything else. Since the common theory is that the universe is constantly expanding, it's implying there was a beginning.

 

[The Mechanist]

@IdeaI thought I was the only Roman Catholic on this site, nice to see that there are more! Aye, I concur with everything you have said thus far. For God has created all things, so that His glory may be known to all and that all may partake in the divine life, to see God as He is, face-to-face.

Roman Catholic is the majority catholic faith, you've got orthodox or Roman, only those two

 

[Count Gensokyo]

I might be able to offer a different perspective here since I'm a non-denominational Protestant. I don't think that the Pope is the ultimate authority when it comes to knowing the will of God. I believe he is a man the same as you and me. I believe in having an intimate, personal relationship with God with just two parties—Him and me.

 

[Idea]

Roman Catholic is the majority catholic faith, you've got orthodox or Roman, only those two

that´s not entirely true. Due to the several reforms, puritanistic views and other deviations from the core principles of the Roman Catholic Church, there are many Churches that are technically catholic churches, but because they are no longer tied to the Pope, are not Roman Catholic.

 

[Eye of Nowhere]

so basically morality= what law is supposed to be?

Well, the intent of law is direct people towards a certain morality.  Much like your ten commandments are intended to direct you towards a certain morality. 


In short:  they are descriptions of a morality.  

 

[The Mechanist]

that´s not entirely true. Due to the several reforms, puritanistic views and other deviations from the core principles of the Roman Catholic Church, there are many Churches that are technically catholic churches, but because they are no longer tied to the Pope, are not Roman Catholic.

Well I'm Roman Catholic, my church is tied to the pope

 

[Larry]

Well I'm Roman Catholic, my church is tied to the pope

I'm meeting a lot of brethren today, I'd like to thank the person who created this thread for the opportunity!

 

[The Mechanist]

I'm meeting a lot of brethren today, I'd like to thank the person who created this thread for the opportunity!

Haha you could always make a status post asking if there are any Roman Catholics 

 

[Larry]

Haha you could always make a status post asking if there are any Roman Catholics 

That's true, what part of the world do you hail from my friend? I'm from Ireland my friend, as zealous a Catholic as you'll ever find!

 

[The Mechanist]

Haha America, south Texas, five miles from the border where it's literally like living in a slice of Mexico, I'm not sure if you know the stereotypes but Mexicans are fairly religious XD even Rock a Templar cross necklace  @Larry

 

[Idea]

Well, the intent of law is direct people towards a certain morality.  Much like your ten commandments are intended to direct you towards a certain morality. 


In short:  they are descriptions of a morality.  

alright. We´ll agree to disagree then. I believe you are wrong at a fundamental basis, but I can´t be arguing it now. Have a good day