Idea
The Pun Tyrant
I didn´t say just a little knowledge, I said ALL of it. That is considerably different.
Other What is the secret of a happy life?
- Thread starter Zombocalypse
- Start date
Still though what does knowledge do if your not in the position ( of power) to use it ? Its like saying " I have the knowledge that I'll be evicted from my house because I'm behind on my payments, because I don't have enough money " .
Just knowing your impending fate even if you have all the knowledge in the world doesn't do anything for happiness.
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
Well, what I stated earlier. The full understanding of the meaning of things is in of itself a source of happiness.
Assuming, your not beholden to : fate ( which most experience )
However its easier to avoid such outcomes with money and/or power .
After all without money and/or power , its hard to enjoy life unless you are very lucky .
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
just my beliefs... I could argue about it further, but that is not really the point of this thread, or rather, I would dive into a deep rabbit whole. Pus I don´t really have the time for that at the moment.
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
not sure what your point is but...Meh
Money = happiness....or power.... or both .
Hall Kervean
Two Thousand Club
I think Idea was saying that if you knew everything you could be happy.
You could know you would be evicted from your house, and you would know the landlord's bank account number, and you would know the nuke launch codes for the Football that day, and you would know how many pounds of ice would melt and freeze that day in Greenland.
You could know you would be evicted from your house, and you would know the landlord's bank account number, and you would know the nuke launch codes for the Football that day, and you would know how many pounds of ice would melt and freeze that day in Greenland.
Well, what good use is knowledge if you can't use it to make money ? Or obtain power ?
Knowledge only helps if your basic needs are met and you have a secure outlook .
Knowledge does little if your starving and scrambling for scraps that have dropped from the table .
Money on the other hand and/or Power.... You need not worry ( which means its easier to become Happy ) about the future or any upcoming issues or problems . At least the ones that won't have a huge life threatening impact.
Hall Kervean
Two Thousand Club
Dude you know the origins of life, how to make a quantum supercomputer, and what makes a perfect movie if you know everything. That clause was specified, and in the scenario where you know everything, you could create No Man's Sky II and it could get astounding sales.
Knowledge is the base of it. Without it, you can't have money or power.
Before you say that people are born into wealth, I'd like to know how many people who spent it wisely are still rich? Most if not all of them. How many lottery winners still have all their winnings? Far from all of them. Far far faaaar.
Knowledge is the base of it. Without it, you can't have money or power.
Before you say that people are born into wealth, I'd like to know how many people who spent it wisely are still rich? Most if not all of them. How many lottery winners still have all their winnings? Far from all of them. Far far faaaar.
Simon_Hawk
Ranger
Pizza. 'nuff said. 
Then that explains why we have DT as the current president right ? After all he's rich so he has to be a man who has deep insights and wisdom in life right ? He has wealth and power beyond what most can achieve .
After all , you may be the most knowledgeable person in the world, but you need to have the opportunity ( which money and power provides) to be able to have that chance to prove your worth .
Fairly difficult to be happy if you don't have your immediate needs met. ( security , food, housing, health , stable outlook ) . Which in turn provides the chance to have that opportunity in the first place.
I mean someone could be a world renown scientist trapped in Eastern Ghouta , Syria right now, do you think that knowledge is going to help them achieve what they can achieve ?
I'm sure they have that opportunity to do their best when there's roving bands of KOS squads .
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Hall Kervean
Two Thousand Club
He also has enough economic knowledge to spend it wisely. As opposed to lottery winners.
And if you're not smart enough to find an opportunity...
And again, if you're a genius, the chances of you not having your basic needs met is small.
Nope.
If they're world-renowned, then they've already proved themselves, which meant they already had an opportunity.
But if I play along, then it's likely that if they've been recognized, so they'd have an evacuation priority.
And I doubt there's many geniuses left in at least the war-torn parts of Syria.
Yeah you'll have to tell me what those are.
If they're a specific group then they were massacred in 2012 according to Wikipedia.
If KOS stands for Kill On Sight, then they're not prevalent everywhere, obviously, because around a half of a million people have escaped Syria.
And if you're not smart enough to find an opportunity...
And again, if you're a genius, the chances of you not having your basic needs met is small.
Nope.
If they're world-renowned, then they've already proved themselves, which meant they already had an opportunity.
But if I play along, then it's likely that if they've been recognized, so they'd have an evacuation priority.
And I doubt there's many geniuses left in at least the war-torn parts of Syria.
Yeah you'll have to tell me what those are.
If they're a specific group then they were massacred in 2012 according to Wikipedia.
If KOS stands for Kill On Sight, then they're not prevalent everywhere, obviously, because around a half of a million people have escaped Syria.
So you are arguing that Donald Trump is wise and intelligent because he has enough economic knowledge to keep what he has gained. Interesting. If that's the argument that you present then I have no issues with that since it does follow ( logically) what your line of thought is.
If this is the case, then he should be the president for he is far more richer then anyone else ( I believe as a US president, he is by far the richest US president ever, even when adjusted for inflation , although I am going by : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_by_net_worth ) , therefore he is VERY intelligent / knowledgeable correct ?
Just to double check, you are saying that if you are rich or powerful, you are wiser and more intelligent then other people. That if you are poor, that it is due to the fact that you are not intelligent enough to make your circumstances in life " change" for the better ?
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Hall Kervean
Two Thousand Club
I'm arguing that he is intelligent enough to keep the money he has gained. Thusly, by your definition, he is powerful, since he has money. Thusly, intelligence leads to power.
No.
Yes and no. I'm saying that without knowledge, you cannot be powerful. As a result, many rich people are intelligent. That's the yes.
The no is that as a rich person you may not necessarily be wiser than others.
The yes and no on the final point is situational, honestly. Many times it is due to that fact. Many times it's not.
To loop back, my point is that intelligence is the base. Without intelligence, you can't have money (at least for long), which according to you is power. So knowledge leads to power.
And to be clear, I'm talking about if we completely removed intelligence, not the level of intelligence some members of the upper class possess.
If we removed intelligence completely, the money and power wouldn't last long at all. So intelligence is needed as a base.
No.
Yes and no. I'm saying that without knowledge, you cannot be powerful. As a result, many rich people are intelligent. That's the yes.
The no is that as a rich person you may not necessarily be wiser than others.
The yes and no on the final point is situational, honestly. Many times it is due to that fact. Many times it's not.
To loop back, my point is that intelligence is the base. Without intelligence, you can't have money (at least for long), which according to you is power. So knowledge leads to power.
And to be clear, I'm talking about if we completely removed intelligence, not the level of intelligence some members of the upper class possess.
If we removed intelligence completely, the money and power wouldn't last long at all. So intelligence is needed as a base.
So basically you are saying that if you are rich its situational if you are intelligent or not (within that point in time) . But if you are poor that means you are not intelligent . Correct ? Basically you need to be intelligent to KEEP your net worth / power intact . That's your line of thinking no ?
Also, you are saying that Donald Trump is intelligent because he has kept what he has gained so far ( in terms of net worth ) . After all you are saying that " Without intelligence, you can't have money (at least for long), which according to you is power. So knowledge leads to power. "
Thus if someone who is able to obtain that sum of money and is able to keep that net worth for more then just a " moment" of time, therefore they are intelligent correct ?
After all you've said that you need intelligence as a base to keep that power or money or to even obtain more.
If this is the case that you are making, then I have to agree with that line of logic, in spite of my personal beliefs.
Hall Kervean
Two Thousand Club
Somewhat, yes.
I've only heard of one time that someone honestly got rich by having no clue what he was doing, and it's not from a very credible source at that. Other circumstances do play into it (Like this man's case), but it's unlikely you'll be very rich for very long if you're not intelligent.
That's also a no.
You can have intelligence and not be rich as well. Van Gogh is an example of that.
You need intelligence to keep your net worth intact, yes.
Yes. I am. He has intelligence since he is able to successfully run a company and keep his net worth intact.
If he had absolutely no intelligence he wouldn't have the money he has today.
Or the national position ^^
More likely than not.
I've only heard of one time that someone honestly got rich by having no clue what he was doing, and it's not from a very credible source at that. Other circumstances do play into it (Like this man's case), but it's unlikely you'll be very rich for very long if you're not intelligent.
That's also a no.
You can have intelligence and not be rich as well. Van Gogh is an example of that.
You need intelligence to keep your net worth intact, yes.
Yes. I am. He has intelligence since he is able to successfully run a company and keep his net worth intact.
If he had absolutely no intelligence he wouldn't have the money he has today.
Or the national position ^^
More likely than not.
I'll have to agree with that point , with your line of logic, that Donald J Trump is intelligent and wise because he is successful ( aka he he has money and/or power ).
If that's the logic that you present then I can't argue against that kind of thinking despite what I believe in .
It takes an idealist to argue what you've just argued and i respect that.
Not many will take that position and defend it as well as you have. So Donald Trump IS intelligent AND is far more knowledgeable than many speaks the idealist .
After all the constant commentary suggesting otherwise , those who criticize Trump could be labeled as " cynics " .
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Hall Kervean
Two Thousand Club
Thank you! 
I think.
Also, wisdom never came into play in this. We were discussing knowledge, not wisdom.
Because I'd agree that many times Donald Trump is not the wisest of men.
But credit where credit is due. I could not run the company Trump owns. I give myself a year at optimistic maximum.
I think.
Also, wisdom never came into play in this. We were discussing knowledge, not wisdom.
Because I'd agree that many times Donald Trump is not the wisest of men.
But credit where credit is due. I could not run the company Trump owns. I give myself a year at optimistic maximum.
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
At this point, I may be just be blowing into a nearly put out fire, but first
Hall Kervean
thanks for taking over while I was gone. I don´t exactly agree with several of your points, nor were they what I meant, but still thanks for defending me
O Omnimon As you can see, there was a big rabbit hole there. In either case, knowledge can achieve something money and power never can: self-realization. Even if you´re starving, the understanding of things beyond you and beyond materialism can bring a satisfaction that is worth sacrificing your life to spread. Some things are more valuable and bring more happiness than money, power, or sensory pleasure ever can. Having all knowledge, from where I can see it, is the path to reach the necessary realizations for that. Is what can truly allow us to detach from the moment. But I said ALL for a reason. There is NO comparison or example you can use to attack this position, because it´s something on a scale beyond anything that ever was possible and who knows if it ever will. Yet, I do believe it is the true key to happiness. Eternal, complete, real happiness.
Hall Kervean
thanks for taking over while I was gone. I don´t exactly agree with several of your points, nor were they what I meant, but still thanks for defending meO Omnimon As you can see, there was a big rabbit hole there. In either case, knowledge can achieve something money and power never can: self-realization. Even if you´re starving, the understanding of things beyond you and beyond materialism can bring a satisfaction that is worth sacrificing your life to spread. Some things are more valuable and bring more happiness than money, power, or sensory pleasure ever can. Having all knowledge, from where I can see it, is the path to reach the necessary realizations for that. Is what can truly allow us to detach from the moment. But I said ALL for a reason. There is NO comparison or example you can use to attack this position, because it´s something on a scale beyond anything that ever was possible and who knows if it ever will. Yet, I do believe it is the true key to happiness. Eternal, complete, real happiness.
Hall Kervean
Two Thousand Club
Is it bad that I can see someone happy from it only because they're better than others?
At this point, I may be just be blowing into a nearly put out fire, but first
O Omnimon As you can see, there was a big rabbit hole there. In either case, knowledge can achieve something money and power never can: self-realization. Even if you´re starving, the understanding of things beyond you and beyond materialism can bring a satisfaction that is worth sacrificing your life to spread. Some things are more valuable and bring more happiness than money, power, or sensory pleasure ever can. Having all knowledge, from where I can see it, is the path to reach the necessary realizations for that. Is what can truly allow us to detach from the moment. But I said ALL for a reason. There is NO comparison or example you can use to attack this position, because it´s something on a scale beyond anything that ever was possible and who knows if it ever will. Yet, I do believe it is the true key to happiness. Eternal, complete, real happiness.
Its hard to achieve self-realization if you do not have your basic needs met.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/MaslowsHierarchyOfNeeds.svg
A key aspect of the model is the hierarchical nature of the needs. The lower the needs in the hierarchy, the more fundamental they are and the more a person will tend to abandon the higher needs in order to pay attention to sufficiently meeting the lower needs. For example, when we are ill, we care little for what others think about us: all we want is to get better.
Maslow called the first four needs 'D-need' as they are triggered when we have a deficit. Only self-actualization is a need that we seek for solely positive reasons. Maslow also called them 'instinctoid' as they are genetically programmed into us as essential for survival.
All one has to do is threaten someone's lower need(s) , then they'll quickly retreat from self-actualization . Why do you think there's Brexit and Trump ? Why are there so many..... unhappy people ? Or is it just better to just blame them for the situation that they're in ? Blaming people always works right ?
Its always easier to just tell people " doh get smarter that's the answer ! " . If that were the answer then many won't be be able to reach for it , if ever.
After all what your saying is that its impossible to be happy because we cannot obtain all the knowledge in the world , correct ?
If so money and power are far more easily obtained thus it helps with obtaining happiness. Instead of the pursuit of the impossible / white whale aka " all knowledge " .
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Idea
The Pun Tyrant
I will say it one last time: I do not intend to follow this rabbit hole right now Omni. I will be more than happy to argue about this and discuss it at a later date, but I am taking a Hiatus for a reason, I really can´t handle it right now.
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
that´s not happiness, just pride
