Two weapon figthing, Why?

[vegetalss4]

exactly as the title implies. what are the advantages to using 2 weapons?


the only one i could find was that you would be able to make more attacks in a flurry, is this really the only advantage?

 

[skafte]

exactly as the title implies. what are the advantages to using 2 weapons?
the only one i could find was that you would be able to make more attacks in a flurry, is this really the only advantage?

You mean, besides the awesomeness of describing your attacks using two weapons?


The big advantage is that you can have a weapon with high accuracy for attack (acting like you only have one weapon), and one with high defence that you use to calculating your PDV (and you don't use for attacking). This way you don't get any off hand penalty, and will get both high accuracy and high defence on "one" weapon.


Personally I don't use two weapons this way, as I have a hard time picturing fighting this way, as high acc weapons really don't match the high defence weapons in fighting style.

 

[Smeggedoff]

Really? you can't picture someone fighting using a sabre and a main gauche?


I'd make other examples using Jitte or Sai or the like but while they're weilded one handed I can't really find evidence they were paired with more dangerous weapons so I'll leave it at that

 

[Gylthinel]

I use a simple house rule that (1) removes off-hand penalties, they're just dumb, and (2) reduces the flurry penalty when using 2 weapons by 1 die, but you must of course attack with each weapon.


In the RAW, there's almost no reason to use 2 weapons unless you use the munchkinny high def/hi acc plan that Skafke described.

 

[Toloran]

In the RAW, there's almost no reason to use 2 weapons unless you use the munchkinny high def/hi acc plan that Skafke described.

How is it munchkiny? It's a real fighting style!

 

[Jukashi]

And since you need two weapons, it could be described as higher-cost as well. There's various limitations to using two weapons, such as not being able to free up one hand for whatever purposes you need (i.e. stunts). And if you want Artifact versions, it's an extra cost and double the chances of losing one.

 

[Sherwood]

I can see some wonderful stunting options with a two weapon style. Making an attack against more than one opponent at once, attacking with one while performing some fancy block to up your DV, etc.

 

[Jeppe]

In the games I've attended, two-weapon fighting never really made it as crunch. We used the rules for fighting with one weapon and only used dual-wielding for describing cool stunts.


The way I see it, the combat rules don't reward dual-wielding. One thing I would like, would be the option of clinching the opponents weapon with a chain or hook sword or something, and the whacking him over the head with the other weapon. Guess you can kinda do that with a disarm maneuver anyway, but that doesn't require 2 weapons.


At the end of the day, though, it's all about the coolness :-)

 

[FluffySquirrel]

Eh, they reward it just fine.. most high powered exalts can quite easily make more than 2 or 3 attacks after all, so being able to double your rate lets you slaughter twice as many mooks for no essence as before!

 

[vegetalss4]

so the advantages of two weapon fighting is:


its cool, never to be underestimated in exalted


you can use one with a high accuracy and another one with high defence


and faster slaughtering of extras


the disadvantages is:


it is more expensive as you need two weapons instead of just one


you don't have one of your hands free to do cool stuff with


anything else?

 

[Flamane]

Are you forgetting about Fire Dragon Style? They can use paired short swords with the awesome advantage of lower multiple action penalties. If some guy decided to make 4 attacks, he would receive -1, -2, -3, -4 penalties to each attack, instead of the usual -4, -5, -6, -7. Besides, the cost for the artifact version is just 6 motes to attune, not a lot more than the 5 motes necessary to attune to a daiklave.


I have a Fire Aspect martial artist who owns a jade paired short daiklave and jade hearthstone bracers. His speed is 2! He's a slashing whirlwind! He can destroy any defense with onslaught. The only way to defend and not burn essence away is to uso some scene long defense charm of some kind, and only Solars and Abyssals have those (not sure about Infernals, though).


Dual wielding is very powerful in the hands of those martial artists.

 

[Gylthinel]

Are you forgetting about Fire Dragon Style? They can use paired short swords with the awesome advantage of lower multiple action penalties. If some guy decided to make 4 attacks, he would receive -1, -2, -3, -4 penalties to each attack, instead of the usual -4, -5, -6, -7. Besides, the cost for the artifact version is just 6 motes to attune, not a lot more than the 5 motes necessary to attune to a daiklave. I have a Fire Aspect martial artist who owns a jade paired short daiklave and jade hearthstone bracers. His speed is 2! He's a slashing whirlwind! He can destroy any defense with onslaught. The only way to defend and not burn essence away is to uso some scene long defense charm of some kind, and only Solars and Abyssals have those (not sure about Infernals, though). Dual wielding is very powerful in the hands of those martial artists.

Well, it's faulty to use a single, over-powered martial art as justification for two-weapon fighting. Further, it's pretty well cannon that you can't get your speed below 3, though the book doesn't state this in every place that references the lowering of speed and, ergo, this point is hotly debated.

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Except that in some places it discusses the possibility of Speed 1. Even mentions how certain charms interact with such.

 

[Brickwall]

There are few ways to get your speed below 3, but unless at least one thing in your speed-lowering says it won't do that, it can. I personally think it's ridiculously twinkish, but it's possible.

 

[Sherwood]

There is a Charm in the Dreaming Pearl Courtesan Style that allows you to adjust the attributes of your weapon by an amount equal to (Essence), and it specifically mentions that if you apply those points to the weapons Speed, it cannot lower it below 1.

 

[Smeggedoff]

I've been meaning to ask...what exactly is a two weapon fig thing anyway? is it similar to a one weapon fig thing?

 

[Brickwall]

Actually, it's a misspelling of "pedantic ass".


I mean fighting.


Slip of the fingers, sorry.

 

[Smeggedoff]

ah, no worries I make that mistake myself, those keys ARE close together after all.


I'm just amused by the idea of some sort of dried fruit monster

 

[Brickwall]

That's where you made your mistake. Figs are already monstrous.

 

[Flamane]

There's no reference anywhere that says speed can't be lower than 3. The only reason to forbid it would be if the ST and the group thought it overpowered, and then the decision is made, the ST words are final.


I first creted the concept of the character and only when stating him I figured that could be done. He's quite powerful, actually, I know. Dragon-Blooded with Celestial Martial Artists could take down most unexperienced Solar, with their free use of reflexive charms and powerful celestial charms. Anyway, I don't think it's not supposed to be like that, since I've found some references of a fight between Peleps Deled (Crazy Immaculate Martial Artist) and Lyta (Crazy Solar Martial artist), and I think she loses. That's actually a good idea for another topic...

 

[Gylthinel]

Well, I did say that it's debatable.

 

[Telum]

A good reason for two weapon fighting is softening the opponent for the group’s heavy hitter. (aka sapping the opponent’s DV for the kill strike.) It’s very good in conjunction with a coordinated attack.

 

[Tsuranis]

There's no reference anywhere that says speed can't be lower than 3. The only reason to forbid it would be if the ST and the group thought it overpowered, and then the decision is made, the ST words are final.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the errata limits speed reduction to 3 unless a given charm/effect specifically declares otherwise.


As for TWF - don't forget that although you're losing a lot of dice from a big flurry, the onslaught penalties on a single target are pretty damned harsh too. By your 6th attack with two rate 3 weapons, their DV is on -5. Throw in say, Shepherd the Leaf (scroll of the monk p55, specifically allowed to supplement any flurry) and their DV penalty across your attacks will be -0, -2, -4. -6, -8, -10. So you probably don't have enough dice to score big amounts of damage, but ping damage is going to start building up quickly.

 

[Greenstalker]

There's no reference anywhere that says speed can't be lower than 3.

It says in errata.

ISSUE: SPEED LIMIT
Clarification: No effect or combination of effect may reduce the Speed of an action below 3 unless it explicitly states that it does so.

For TWF, having a higher rate also gives you higher chance to hit with your poisoned weapons more easier. Also charms like shadow over water lets you get rid of negative DV effect of flurry with a really cheap cost or if you get it you can activate fivefold bulkwark stance to get rid of flurry penalty to DV and enhance your attacks without a combo. With one weapon, two blows activated for each weapon you can get nasty numbers of rate (10 for a pair of orichalcum daiklaves for example)