The New Deliberative Constitution

[Charon]

Me and a player (Eclispe PC) chatted about the campaign and came up with an amusing concept.


The Eclispe PC would come up with a constitution for the new Deliberative (Which he wants to be more inclusive the old one) and then he'd get allies to swear a sanctified pact to uphold the constition.


My campaign is a troupe still campaign, with 4 players controlling 4 PCs.  That core group is composed of 5 Solars, 4 Lunars (2 of whom are mates to 2 of the Solars), 4 Dragon Blooded, 2 Siderals and 1 ancient Dagon King.


NPCs friendly to the group include 3 Solars and 1 Lunar as well as 7 ancient Dragon King.


Potentially, all of these could swear on the new constitution.


Incidently, part of the group is currently busy retaking control of Rathess and the human octad is the proposed seat of the "government in exile".  They also control the Invisible Fortress so that's an option but they haven't yet dealt with the demon infestation.


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Any sugestion on the articles?


The idea is that the deliberative should represent everybody (though not necessarily evenly).  Maybe even mortals and gods.  Yet it shouldn't become the UN where nothing is ever accomplished.  


I'm thinking there could be a lesser chambers where every Celestial Exalt + as many DB as there are Celestial + special represntative from the spirit courts and mortal kingdom with rights to petition the chamber (but not vote).  There should be Dragon-King in there too.


Then there is a higher chamber with a more manageable number or representative, elected by their peers.  


Not too sure about the executive.    


There should be a bill of right, though that bill shouldn't be too modern.  Remember that the American Constitution still allowed for Slavery in its beginning ; let's not get anachronistic.  But still the beginning of principle like due process and Habeas Corpus could come up.


That constitution should be easier to change than, say, the US constitution.  After all, it'll be written by a select few at first and most likely will need to be constantly be rewritten to make room for new arrivals.


And it must be Exalt flavored, of course.

 

[Persell]

I'd look through the east european constitutions of the post cold war system transformations if I was you. A lot of them effortlessly blend interesting democratic principles and are exceedingly well written. I'd only stay away from the polish as it had several attempts at coming into power and went the way of everything when you give politicians a lot of time. It is unwieldy and bloated.

 

[Persell]

Well, it's a lot more complicated than drafting a constitution and saying, "Hey guys!  We got this great new political system!  And it includes you too!  No, we never invited the Exalted factions to discuss it, but we have friends who are your type of Exalted, so it should be okay for you too!"


Remember, before the Constitution was passed, the American colonies held congresses so that representatives of all the colonies could discuss it and hash it out.  It even had representatives who were against independence and wanted to remain a part of the British Empire.  So, rather than trying to guess at what each faction wants, you'd have to invite representatives of the different Exalted, and within those different Exalted different factions of Exalted, to come to a congress so that every point of view has a say in the Deliberative.


Naturally, this will be tough to do.  Right now, everybody has their own agenda, so you're going to have to find ways to compromise those agendas so everybody will work together.  This doesn't just include the different Exalted and Dragon Kings, but also the spirits and the ghosts as well.


Another thing to keep in mind is that, in terms of the meta-game, we know that Solars have the mandate to rule and therefore should rule above all the other Exalted.  However, to the Solars proved themselves abusive to the other Exalted, and they would be hesitant to commit the same mistake twice.  However, all the other Exalted don't trust each other - Sidereals will sacrifice anyone to make sure Creation continues to exist, Lunars want to tear down civilization thinking it the cause of the Solars' debauchery, and Dragon-Blooded have believed themselves to be the actual protectors and lords over Creation for a thousand years and won't play fourth fiddle to a bunch of demons.


Even if a congress can be called to call together these factions, there's always someone who won't agree with it.  What's more, they'll see them as threats.  I would hazard a guess that Lookshy and the Scarlet Empire could put aside their hostilities if the Immaculate Order was able to bridge the gap between the two to bring down this city-state run by the worst beings to walk Creation.  Lunars will try to keep it down because it's a new civilization that will just become corrupt again, and Sidereals can't trust the Solars with that power.  Even other Solars could work to bring it down, as it would be a fight between Solar monarchists, those who believe Solars should rule absolutely, and Solar republicans, who believe the other Exalted should have a say in the government.  If the Bull of the North is a monarchist, he could try to lead his army down to Rathess and take it from the PCs and set it up as his imperial capitol.  That means the New Deliberative will have to prove themselves as a viable government before any others give them recognition and defend themselves against others who would bring them down to build up their own power.


But the above doesn't answer your question, although it could lead to the answers via play.  You could hold a congress and then have representatives of all types of Exalted come by.  Some would be very open to the idea; others would come but presume the whole thing to be a failure; others would even give it the dignity of a response.  Heh - the Abyssals and Deathlords would likely demand representation, although everyone else would try to deny them.  Would the PCs allow them a seat?  Or would they show that they don't want everybody to join?  If they discriminate against the Abyssals, maybe they'll discriminate against the others as well.  If that's the case, why should they even be there?


What the constitution would say, I think, you should leave it up to gameplay and have NPCs represent their interests and leave it up to the PCs to try to work them all out together.  First, have your own PCs make up a platform and then propose it to the NPCs.  Then have the NPCs react to it.  That's probably your best bet.


The movie "1776" is a great inspiration for this kind of gameplay.  Definitely see it if you can.

 

[Arthur]

Alohahaha has put up some interesting ideas, even though I disagree from many of them. I do not believe the game needs that kind of realism. Sure, if it was that easy to make a constitution that was subscribed by every people in the World, someone in three thousand years of human history already would have done so. But we are not talking of human history, we are talking of the history of the Exalted. Normal politics should be bent a little to fit the story. If not, Epic motivations would not be very challenging, they would be impossible!


What would indeed be very interesting to do is to manage to reunite representatives of the different kinds of exalts. It would alone be a challenge, but not an impossible one. Many Lunars are very interested in getting to know these new coming Solars, and the Gold Faction is always there (the same Gold Faction that should completely support the attempt to recreate the Solar Deliberative). When it comes to the Underworld, it comes to a more delicate subject. Most of the exalts would argue that the Abyssals, the DLs and the ghosts are perversions of the nature, but having them as enemies right from the beginning would certainly cause some trouble.

 

[Vanman]

When it comes to the Underworld, it comes to a more delicate subject. Most of the exalts would argue that the Abyssals, the DLs and the ghosts are perversions of the nature, but having them as enemies right from the beginning would certainly cause some trouble.

Or serve as a common enemy to unite everyone together.......

 

[Jukashi]

(the same Gold Faction that would completely support the attempt to recreate the Solar Deliberative under their clandestine guidance).

Fixed.

 

[Persell]

I wouldn't worry too much about the nuts and bolts of the constitution, unless you want that kind of tedious detail. Outline the broad concepts and form, the various factions wants/hangups with the system and go from there.


As far as what alohahaha said about not all of a given Exalt type agreeing to the compact just because a few of that type helped design it, just put a clause in your Eclipse contract that states that as new Factions/nations join up debate on the nature of the constitution will be open again, but any partaking in the discussion (including those not formally signed in yet) must come to a rational agreement or suffer Heaven's Wrath.  :twisted: That outta take care of most problems of negotiations halting over trivial things.


For the shape or design of the Constitution I'd look to the European Union. Fascinating form and structure, and it allows new members to enter but still remain partially autonomous. And before you all scream at me folks in Europe, I know the EU has some major problems, but thats real-world and this is game-world.


Hope that helps Charon!

 

[Flagg]

If they don't already exist, I think it would make a lot of sense for Solars to have "compromise" Charms.

 

[Arthur]

You mean... besides oath sanctifying?

 

[Persell]

I think he means more along the lines of forcing someone to agree to compromise due to magical influence. An Eclipse's Sactified Oath still relies on the individual's ability to recognize following the terms are in their best interests.

 

[Arthur]

I see. Maybe Worshipful Lackey Acquisition (Core p. 205), Terrifying Apparition of Glory (Core p. 204) and Authority-Radiating Stance (Core p. 204) would do the job. Worshipping subjects would probably sign a contract. For single targets, maybe you could use Hipinotic Tongue Technique (Core p. 203).


That charms would not cause any good impression and you would probably have to magicly controll the whole Creation. Not very pratic, probably innaplicable with hi-essenced subjects.

 

[Flagg]

I think he means more along the lines of forcing someone to agree to compromise due to magical influence.

No, what I meant was something that allows a Solar to magically cut to the quick of a disagreement and find a resolution that all parties would be willing to accept -- not a Charm to mind control people.

 

[Persell]

Knowing the soul's price.


Ah, that was bribery. Ignore me. Take the money and say what I want you to ^^

 

[Persell]

Im more interested in what the terms of the realms surrender to the solar host would be... since likely the Solars would want enough left of the realm to bother taking a official surrender...


that makes it look more legitimate...


I'd suggest a two house system... one that slightly favors the solars, naturally... but is a little more inclusive to dragon blooded...

 

[Persell]

In government, there's generally three branches.  The Legislature makes the laws, the Executive enforces the laws, and the Judiciary interprets the laws.  This creates a system of checks and balances in government.  Here's an example using the American system of checks and balances, although there are other types.


The executive is checked by the legislature in that the executive can only enforce laws passed by the legislature.  The executive is checked by the judiciary in that the judiciary can declare certain acts illegal.


The legislature is checked by the executive in that the executive has some veto powers over the passing of laws and it's up to him to enforce them.  The legislature is checked by the judiciary in that the judiciary interprets and rules on the laws the legislature passes.


The judiciary is checked by the executive in that the executive can nominate judges.  The judiciary is checked by the legislature in that the legislature must approve judges.


There are also examples of five systems of government, which you might want to consider because of the importance of the number five in Exalted.  In a five branches system of separation of powers, there's an electoral branch, which oversees elections and makes decisions on them that can't be appealed, and an auditory branch, a comptroller that controls the financing and budgets for the other branches and audits officials for monetary misuse.