Social Combat Questions

[Trueblood]

How is sorcery handled in social combat like for example with Droning Suggestion and Peacock Shadow Eyes?


In the case of Droning Suggestion which is a Terrestrial level spell, how fast does it take to activate? How do you translate the Cast Sorcery and Release Sorcery actions to the social combat time scale? Does the entire thing take one miscellaneous action perhaps? Two?


What about about Peacock Shadow Eyes which is also a Terrestrial level spell, since it only has a duration of 5 minutes which would be just 5 ticks on the social combat time scale? Also on a side note, what happens if Peacock Shadow Eyes is successfully cast on a target during standard combat? Does it force him into inactivity for the equivalent of 5 minutes in standard combat ticks?


Lastly, I'm just a bit confused, but do wound penalties also affect MDVs?

 

[Fruan]

I wouldn't really allow sorcery during social combat -  sorcery is an inherently dangerous thing, and shaping a spell around people without warning them first would be viewed as a hostile act in all but the most unusual of circumstances; Remember, shaping is always Obvious, and most people distrust sorcerers, or at least sorcery.


So, what I'd have happen is as soon as someone has announced that they're going to cast a spell, social combat ends and everyone rolls Join Battle, just like when any other overtly hostile action is taken. Maybe, if the sorcerer is lucky, or respected, or whatever, everyone will uneasily hold their judgment (ie, take guard actions) to see why exactly they decided to break out the incredible display of essence fueled magic over dinner, and after the spell is cast everyone will consent to ending combat and re-rolling Join Debate, but that's a best case scenario: I personally foresee bloodshed before dessert.


Seriously, I can't stress this enough; Sorcery is huge, scary and Obvious in the most obvious possible way, and is in no way the sort of thing that is broken out in the middle of tense negotiations, after dinner conversation, courtly intrigues or whatever other situation has warranted the use of the social combat rules.

 

[The zombie cat]

Sorry post in wrong thread

 

[Jeppe]

Uhh... How the deuce does that connect to Sorcery in Social Combat? Are you sure you didn't try to reply to the thread on the Great Curse?

 

[Persell]

Droning Suggestion explicitly states that it's not Obvious in the same way as other spells.  It doesn't flare the sorcerer's anima; it's only Obvious quality is the droning hum that accompanies it, and other noises can cover it.  It, like many spells, are meant to be used during social combat; it states that in this particular spell's description (turns all social attacks into unnatural mental influence).  


An easy way to track social ticks is the same way you track unspecified combat moves.  Unless the spell specifically says otherwise, assume it follows the Sorcery rules in the core book.


I honestly wouldn't allow something like Peacock Shadow Eyes to be usable in physical combat.  Others may do it differently, but to me it's clearly a spell meant to be used in social combat, which is rather complicated to combine with regular combat.


And yes. Wound penalties affect everything.

 

[The zombie cat]

Peacock shadow eyes is best used when there is only one opponent, as soon as you finish casting the spell you fall out of combat and spend 5 min dictating to him.


There are some times when you can cast sorcery in social combat, specific spells like droning suggestion, or by ducking into the cloak room for a minute so nobody can see. In these cases I would use the same timing rules as war. All sorcery is a 5 tick action, unless the spell description says it takes longer.


Edward

 

[Trueblood]

So sorcery would be a 5 tick charm activation / miscellaneous social combat action?


Droning Suggestion confuses me because it seems to have been made specifically for social combat and has no use outside of it. Also, what other charm allows all social attacks you make to be unnatural? (By the way, am I reading it wrong or does it allow you to keep pounding away on a target until he's drained of all willpower?)


Peacock shadow Eyes confuses me because I don't know when it should be used and how. Do I use it in social combat, screw with the target's mind as my action (5 minute duration equivalent to 5 ticks?) and from that point on does he act in a manner appropriate to the changes I've made in his memory? Do I use it in normal combat and the target then shifts into inactivity for the equivalent in normal combat ticks of 5 minutes as he waits for me to alter his memories?


Help!

 

[Fruan]

Just as a tip; if you're asking rules questions about specific passages, page numbers are really helpful.


Ok, Droning Suggestion (White treatise, pg 44), can be cast during social combat, so ignore everything I said in my first post in this thread. It'll take a shape terrestrial circle sorcery action of 5 long ticks, followed by a cast terrestrial circle sorcery action, which is basically another Join Debate roll in this context. Mechanically, yes, it then makes all your social attacks count as unnatural mental influence for the rest of the scene. Exactly what that means is described on page 180 of the core rule book - You might want to read that carefully.


Of course, there are lots of uses I can think of for Droning Suggestion that do not involve casting it during social combat. All of them boil down to casting it in a context in which you know that social combat is about to occur - Scene long durations are really handy.


Peacock Shadow Eyes (White Treatise, pg 55), on the other hand, is Obvious, so trying to cast it during social combat will generally cause alarm. Furthermore, you don't enter social combat with whomever you have targeted with it to use its effect - You just spend 5 minutes telling them things. You don't need to construct cunning arguments and riposte counterpoints, you can just list the things you want them to remember, and they'll sit there listening and magically believing everything you say. While this will take 5 long ticks if, say, there is a parallel social combat happening elsewhere, that isn't a limiting factor in how much information you can convince them of, as you're not needing to make a flurry of social attacks to fit everything into this time. You're just talking. Presumably one of the things you'll tell them is "You have no memory of my using sorcery on you just now".


The situations in which you'll cast Peacock Shadow Eyes will basically be any time you're alone with someone, and don't expect to be interrupted for the next few minutes. Be this because you invited someone to come to your chambers for an important meeting, or have abducted them and are holding them in a secure location (With erasing memory of the abduction as a goal for Peacock Shadow Eyes), or even just fighting them to the death out in the wilderness ("We decided to put our differences aside and talk for a while" then being a useful suggestion to make via the spells effect). Reading the passage on Unnatural Mental Influence in the core book (pg 180) will also be useful for this spell.