Resplendent Destinies ...what?

[Persell]

(Because I might disclose various things of plot nature, I humbly petition my players to avoid this thread - and I'll know if you don't. I have powers)


Sometimes the most basic things in Exalted baffle me if I have never worked with them before - Sidereals are one of those things.


I have little experience with them, but currently have some Sidereal NPCs floating around in my campaign. They are enacting Resplendent Destinies to interact with the PCs - but I have some questions.


Now, I've read the 1st edition Sidereal book re: Resplendent Destinies several times, but the whole Astrology section confuses me. I don't have access to 2nd ed yet (even though this is a 2nd ed game)


I have been playing vaguely loose with the rules (using the snippet in the 2nd ed. core more than everything) because they are serving mostly plot purposes, but I'm worried I might be giving my Sidereals unfair advantages.


What, exactly, in 2nd edition to players and Sidereals have to roll for a character to see through a R.D?


When do R.Ds expire? What if the Sidereal puts all his astrology towards just one identity?


Who can naturally see through R.Ds? Can beings outside of fate see through them? Does that count gods? Abyssals?


A basic rundown of what a ST needs to know to Destinies believable in their game would be greatly appreciated, because right now I have a headache.

 

[Persell]

The rules for Sidereal Astrology underwent a substantial (near total) revision between editions, and are now much simpler.


Mechanically, a Resplendant Destiny negates Arcane Fate and confers a +3 dice bonus to convince others of the identity you have assumed, no matter how inappropriate it seems at the time. It also applies a -3 Internal Penalty or a -2 DV penalty for people to disbelieve it. So long as you avoid using the Resplndancy powers that the destiny confers, they can easily last for quite a long time. Unless it becomes relevant, assume they last for a goodly number of years.


All creatures outside of fate are completely immune to Sidereal Astrology. That includes Abyssals who do not meaningfully interact with creation on a regular basis, but not gods.

 

[Yakumo]

I don't have my book with me, and I find how Sidereals are handled by WW to be annoying.  That said, I can still give straight forward answers to a couple of questions:


1) Duration is bought with successes. same as in 1st ed.  Table may be different. but otherwise it's the same.  Also the same is that you put points into duration and effect (endurance?).  RD runs out either when the duration runs out or when all effect (endurance?) points are spent.  Again, I believe this was the same in 1E.


2) "What if a player puts all of his astrology to one identity?  Could you clarify this question?   Do you mean as to it's duration or other people being able to see through it or somethine else?  This is another maybe, as I've only scanned the astrology section in 2E, but I believe it works the same as 1E.  I don't believe it will have any effect on people seeing through a RD.  As to duration/effect (endurance?), I think that's only an issue if you're talking about a limmitted time to set up RDs.  My memory of 1E was the more time you put in and do other stuff, the more dice you can get.   I am assuming 2E is the same.


3) I THINK beings outside Creation do see through them.  I KNOW they aren't affected by Arcane Fate.  That doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't affected by resplendant destinies, but I think they aren't


4) Gods are not outside fate.  However, if I'm right about beings outside fate not being affected by resplendent destinies, then you might rule that those few gods not affected by Arcane Fate are also not affected by the destinies (I'd certainly imagine the Maidens aren't!).


-Edit- Of course, one thing to consider with creatures outside fate is this.  At least if they've never met you before, how the heck would they know you're not the guard captain of F Troop, err, Legion?

 

[wordman]

Something is implied in the original question that I don't think is quite "in theme" with the point of resplendent destinies. Destinies are not really intended to be disguises. I mean, they sort of are, but that isn't really what they are for. They are really intended to be a mostly crappy solution to a problem. The problem being: people don't remember sidereals.


This is sometimes useful, but when you have to interact with people, it is a huge pain in the ass. The resplendent destiny is less a clever disguise and more a practical necessity. Note also, that a resplendent destiny is extremely crippling when the sidereal wants to get anything real done, because it drops automatically once the anima banner is at the 8 mote level, and starts generating Paradox at the 4 mote level. This effectively caps him at using Personal essence only.


I run a mixed campaign, and the sidereal in it usually drops his destiny when entering combat. The other players have never made their rolls to remember him for more than about 10 seconds, so are simultaneously convinced that a) the character is useless in combat and b) they have a "guardian angel" that appears when they fight.


Which brings up the following point: assuming someone "sees through" a resplendent destiny, presumably they are seeing the sidereal underneath. But what good does that do them? All it does is basically ensure that they will forget all about him in a few minutes.

 

[Moonsilver]

Thank you once again for convincing me to stick with just Solars and Lunars. No Sidereal Pimpernels in my campaign.

 

[Fruan]

Which brings up the following point: assuming someone "sees through" a resplendent destiny, presumably they are seeing the sidereal underneath. But what good does that do them? All it does is basically ensure that they will forget all about him in a few minutes.

Sure. But they'll remember that the resplendent destiny identity is some sort of illusion. Can't quite remember who it was underneath that, but it was someone...


Further more, it's possible this could be setting you up for a heap of paradox from the table on page 195, depending on what happens next. And paradox is a much, much bigger headache in 2E.

 

[Persell]

It should be noted that Sidereals can't see Resplendent Destinies either, so if it's another Sidereal you're trying to hide from, you better make sure your Larceny pools are up to the challenge.

 

[Flagg]

I'm curious about this. The book does say that Sidereals can't see RDs.


Does that mean that if they look at another Sidereal, they would be totally unaware of whatever RD he was wearing? That seems to fall somewhere on the Inconvenient<->Silly spectrum.

 

[Persell]

I'm curious about this. The book does say that Sidereals can't see RDs.
Does that mean that if they look at another Sidereal, they would be totally unaware of whatever RD he was wearing? That seems to fall somewhere on the Inconvenient<->Silly spectrum.

Since it's rare that Sidereals don't supplement their destinies with mundane costumes and accoutrements, I think another Sidereal would be able to give an educated guess given the dress and trinkets as to the RD's general purpose.  They could be able to sense a small change in the general lay of Fate around the character wearing the RD, but seeing the actual details is beyond their ability -- or maybe their ability is beyond seeing the details.


That's how I'd rule it anyway.


Edit: It also takes something as small as coughing up a spider, asking if the character is wearing a Destiny and what that Destiny entails for those truly curious about the details.

 

[Flagg]

"Coughing up a spider"?

 

[Jukashi]

Didn't you know? Sidereals are full of spiders. And they'll give you cooties.

 

[wordman]

It also takes something as small as coughing up a spider, asking if the character is wearing a Destiny and what that Destiny entails for those truly curious about the details.

I'm not sure that works. That charm doesn't work on details that are "actively hidden". I can't decide if an RD would qualify or not.

 

[Persell]

"Coughing up a spider"?

Efficient Secretary Technique.  Despite the technical description, the Charm basically amounts to you coughing a spider into your palm and asking it to check the Loom for you.

I'm not sure that works. That charm doesn't work on details that are "actively hidden". I can't decide if an RD would qualify or not.

That applies to details actively hidden using Seals and other forms of fateful obfuscation.  Unless otherwise modified, Resplendent Destinies are on file with the Colleges and theoretically open to view for any Sidereal who submits the proper paperwork.  I don't see any reason EST wouldn't be able to get these details.

 

[Persell]

You could also interpret "Seeing through a RD" as seeing a halo of the RD surrounding the Sidereal. Basically the person, be it a demon, Sidereal, etc, sees a blurry, indistinct form of the RD overlaying the Sidereal, whom they can clearly see underneath. Kinda like a photo overlay.

 

[Flagg]

That's the thing, CI. IIRC, it doesn't say they "see through" RDs. It says that "can't see" them.

 

[wordman]

That applies to details actively hidden using Seals and other forms of fateful obfuscation.

If you say so. I play it that "If the information is available and not actively concealed" and "the pattern spider cannot retrieve information that is actively hidden or innately esoteric" means just that: if no one is trying to hide the information, or the information isn't lost, the spider can find it. Otherwise, they can't. Requiring special Fate-blocking powers to hide a fact from this charm makes it way to powerful for 2m.


"What's the combination to the control center of this manse?" "Where is the nearest set of plans for Indestructible Artifact X?" "What is the secret ingredient in this formula?" Even something like "what is the name of the masked bandit?" All of these, IMO, should not be discoverable by this charm, because they are (most likely) actively being hidden.


Otherwise, if you want to run a campaign with even the slightest amount of intrigue, you are basically out of luck.

 

[wordman]

That's the thing, CI. IIRC, it doesn't say they "see through" RDs. It says that "can't see" them.

One thing about this that may not actually be obvious: Resplendent Destinies are not physical disguises. They don't change your appearance. They don't surround you with trappings. They just make people accept that you are a certain type of person.


The destiny does have a specific persona, decided at the time it is created, with a specific name and so on. The sidereal usually changes into clothes that fit the role, maybe even wearing makeup and a real disguise, but this is not required.


So, when Alice the sidereal runs into Bob the sidereal, who is pretending to be "Old Man Tepet", complete with white beard and wig, Alice might still get fooled by the disguise, but won't even notice the destiny. Most likely, she will be able to tell it's Bob and be all "Yo, Bob! What's with the get up?" (More likely, of course, she'll realize that Bob is probably "in character".)


Oh, and yes, I think this is supposed to be less than ideal, yet another drawback of breaking the Mask.

 

[Persell]

If you say so. I play it that "If the information is available and not actively concealed" and "the pattern spider cannot retrieve information that is actively hidden or innately esoteric" means just that: if no one is trying to hide the information, or the information isn't lost, the spider can find it. Otherwise, they can't. Requiring special Fate-blocking powers to hide a fact from this charm makes it way to powerful for 2m.

This is why I said it applies to baseline Resplendent Destinies.  Unless otherwise modified, the RD's details are on open file with the College it belongs to, and the information can be accessed by other Sidereals, gods and astrologers. I never said it applies all the time to everything.  

One thing about this that may not actually be obvious: Resplendent Destinies are not physical disguises. They don't change your appearance. They don't surround you with trappings. They just make people accept that you are a certain type of person.

My Sidereal's favorite RD: an Immaculate priest.  The loophole she uses is, on the Isle, people assume the Faith; in the East, most often the Philosophy.  When she clarified the Philosophy in a town in the Hundred Kingdoms, the NPC she was speaking to nodded and said, "I guess that's why you have hair."

 

[wordman]

Unless otherwise modified, the RD's details are on open file with the College it belongs to, and the information can be accessed by other Sidereals, gods and astrologers.

True, but the RD's details are also being "actively hidden" from everyone else, just as the combination of the sidereal's safe is (which also probably on file somewhere in Fate, probably as a tag on the file of the least god of the lock).

 

[Persell]

Unless otherwise modified, the RD's details are on open file with the College it belongs to, and the information can be accessed by other Sidereals, gods and astrologers.

True, but the RD's details are also being "actively hidden" from everyone else, just as the combination of the sidereal's safe is (which also probably on file somewhere in Fate, probably as a tag on the file of the least god of the lock).

Not really. It's being hidden, but I wouldn't say it's being actively hidden. It's just that no mortals would ever be able to fill out the proper forms. And I think we can assume that the Charm opperates from the user's point of view, which means it isn't being hidden at all.

 

[Flagg]

One thing about this that may not actually be obvious: Resplendent Destinies are not physical disguises.

You are correct. However, if a Sidereal presents himself to the same person using two different RDs, the person WILL recognize each RD as a distinct person, despite the fact that they both look the same in actuality. It's like Clark Kent and Superman.


According to a literal interpretation of the book, a Sidereal would see no such distinction. Their fellow Sidereal can drop one RD and don another, and they will have NO CLUE that anything has changed.

Most likely, she will be able to tell it's Bob and be all "Yo, Bob! What's with the get up?"

... and then Bob gets hit with Paradox.

 

[Persell]

I...ow...my brain.


Thanks for the responses - they certainly have explained some things about RDs. But they also sort of brought up weird questions. Hopefully, none of my players will realize if I make a mistake regarding them.


I apologize if sometimes my, er, flavor was off - but I never fully grasped them and I wanted to sort of provide for the possibilities that I had no flipping clue as to what I was talking about.