Reflex Sidestep Technique

[nonamemaddoxx]

Does using Reflex Sidestep Technique against an unexpected attack allow you to use only your DDV against said attack, or can you use either PDV or DDV as you see fit? In particular, the phrase "The attack is no longer unexpected" seems to me to allow reasonable doubt for using PDV, and it is not explicitly stated that one can't do so. Thoughts?

 

[Plague of Hats]

Technically it's omniapplicable in its area of specialty. This may have even been intentional. It's a bad idea, though, and I encourage you to take Uncanny Impulse Evasion, the Abyssal Mirror, as a form of stealth-errata that restricts its use solely to allowing Dodge-based defenses against the threat.

 

[Gylthinel]

I agree with PoH. Really, seems like the charm should be supplemental.


The charm also states that unblockable attacks remain unblockable. Though this is a bit of a stretch, you could say that an unexpected attack is unblockable and therefore cannot be blocked using the charm.

 

[Plague of Hats]

I agree with PoH. Really, seems like the charm should be supplemental.

Making it supplemental would destroy the entirety of its utility.

The charm also states that unblockable attacks remain unblockable. Though this is a bit of a stretch, you could say that an unexpected attack is unblockable and therefore cannot be blocked using the charm.

It really just needs to be reworked a little.

 

[Gylthinel]

I agree with PoH. Really' date=' seems like the charm should be supplemental.[/quote']Making it supplemental would destroy the entirety of its utility.

Why?


Not that it REALLY matters, but my point was only that supplemental charms are made thus so that they can only benefit their root ability. I get annoyed with how the definition is inconsistently applied. Like, Hungry Tiger Technique is supplemental but... falling icicle strike isn't?


And the only reason that it matters/is annoying is because some players attempt to go lawyer and take the writing at face value. Such as attempting to use a dodge charm to parry.

 

[Persell]

Because making it supplemental makes it only work when it's actually your turn to do anything and make it fairly useless in combos.

 

[Gylthinel]

Because making it supplemental makes it only work when it's actually your turn to do anything and make it fairly useless in combos.

I guess I'll need to re-read supplemental charms, but I don't recall it saying that they can only be used on your turn.


And isn't the point of this thread that Reflexive Sidestep SHOULD be useless in a combo?

 

[Persell]

I thought the point of the thread was to get RST clarify as to weather it actually works on just DDV, or PDV and DDV. Also, I suppose there may be times when you can use a Supplemental charm outside of your turn, but the vast majority will be when it's your turn.

 

[MorkaisChosen]

Would you be able to use a Supplemental charm when it isn't your turn if you comboed a counterattack and something like Fist of Iron?

 

[Plague of Hats]

Any action that can be validly enhanced with a supplemental Charm can be so enhanced, even if it is a reflexive action that doesn't occur on your action tick. However, in a Combo your non-reflexive actions on your action tick must all be actions that can validly benefit from the supplemental Charms in your Combo. This means that the only time you could use a Combo with a supplemental version of Reflex Sidestep Technique is when you somehow purposefully check for surprise preemptively, which makes no sense, and then you do nothing else.


This is academic, anyway. The system conspires to make it absolutely impossible for a Combo containing a supplemental version of Reflex Sidestep Technique to actually function in any way without more extensive rewriting of either the Charm, the Charm system, the actions, or all three.

 

[Gylthinel]

Any action that can be validly enhanced with a supplemental Charm can be so enhanced' date=' even if it is a reflexive action that doesn't occur on your action tick. However, in a Combo your non-reflexive actions on your action tick [i']must[/i] all be actions that can validly benefit from the supplemental Charms in your Combo. This means that the only time you could use a Combo with a supplemental version of Reflex Sidestep Technique is when you somehow purposefully check for surprise preemptively, which makes no sense, and then you do nothing else.

I guess I just don't really see your logic. I understand that you can only use a supplemental charm to supplement the ability in question. I.e. were RST supplemental, it could only enhance your dodge (meaning, you couldn't use your parry, which is the point of this thread). If you put it into a combo, then your combo has to be a dodge combo. I don't see why this would be a problem, or how it would render the charm somehow non-functional. Based on the combo rules, you'd activate the combo in response to the attack, and since you're using your dodge, RST would apply. You'd then butter up the combo with whatever other charms are relevant, which would have to be reflexive or dodge-supplementals, and call it a day. The only quirk I can think of is that you'd have to activate RST every time you dodge until your action refreshes.


This sort of holds hands with my question: why are excellencies reflexive? I mean, they only benefit the ability in question. If you dodge, you CAN use a melee excellency to boost your PDV, but who cares what your PDV is when you're dodging? I could use my performance excellency to get bonus dice to my singing while I'm dodging, but that's pretty irrelevant since I'm not actually rolling a singing check. Meaning, making them reflexive seems functionally irrelevant.

 

[Persell]

The Excellencies are Reflexive so that you don't have to buy as many dice as you are able to when used in a combo. That would be a lot of motes spent really quick otherwise. Least I think you have to max out your Supp charms just like Extra action charms. Not by my books right now.

 

[Kyeudo]

I guess I just don't really see your logic. I understand that you can only use a supplemental charm to supplement the ability in question. I.e. were RST supplemental, it could only enhance your dodge (meaning, you couldn't use your parry, which is the point of this thread). If you put it into a combo, then your combo has to be a dodge combo. I don't see why this would be a problem, or how it would render the charm somehow non-functional. Based on the combo rules, you'd activate the combo in response to the attack, and since you're using your dodge, RST would apply. You'd then butter up the combo with whatever other charms are relevant, which would have to be reflexive or dodge-supplementals, and call it a day. The only quirk I can think of is that you'd have to activate RST every time you dodge until your action refreshes.
This sort of holds hands with my question: why are excellencies reflexive? I mean, they only benefit the ability in question. If you dodge, you CAN use a melee excellency to boost your PDV, but who cares what your PDV is when you're dodging? I could use my performance excellency to get bonus dice to my singing while I'm dodging, but that's pretty irrelevant since I'm not actually rolling a singing check. Meaning, making them reflexive seems functionally irrelevant.

Right now, lets say you want to build an Uber-Attack Combo that doesn't leave you defenseless. You throw the First Melee Excellency, Hungry Tiger Attack, Peony Blossom Attack, and Heavenly Guardian Defense into what you name Glorious Meatgrinder Method. This is all valid.


If Heavenly Guardian Defense was supplemental, this would not be possible. Your action would have to be either parrying (in which case only Heavenly Guardian Defense could be in the Combo) or attacking (in which case Heavenly Guardian Defense couldn't be in the Combo) because your supplemental Charms (our theoretical Heavenly Guardian Defense and Hungry Tiger Technique) must be used but can only benefit actions that they could validly enhance. This is why all short duration defensive Charms are Reflexive.


TL DR version: Supplemental Defensive Charms don't work properly when comboed with other Charms.

 

[Plague of Hats]

Making defensive Charms (amongst which Excellencies are numbered) supplemental renders you unable to do anything else at all if you use them in a Combo. Additionally, there are currently no non-reflexive actions that can be validly performed that would even allow you to use such a Combo, which may technically prevent you from ever activating such a Combo should it somehow exist.

This sort of holds hands with my question: why are excellencies reflexive? I mean, they only benefit the ability in question. If you dodge, you CAN use a melee excellency to boost your PDV, but who cares what your PDV is when you're dodging? I could use my performance excellency to get bonus dice to my singing while I'm dodging, but that's pretty irrelevant since I'm not actually rolling a singing check. Meaning, making them reflexive seems functionally irrelevant.

Your non-reflexive actions compel your use of supplemental Charms in a Combo. The same is not true for reflexive Charms. For instance, you can enhance a flurry of Melee attacks with a diminishing amount of dice with the First Melee Excellency, eventually trailing off into +0 dice at no mote cost when the target's DV dives into the ground through onslaught. You must apply your supplemental Charms, like Fire and Stones Strike, to every attack in the Combo-enhanced flurry, requiring you pay at least 1m per attack even if you've found that your opponent is for one reason or another completely invincible and your Charm use is doing nothing for you.
The difference between supplemental and reflexive Charms is very important.

The Excellencies are Reflexive so that you don't have to buy as many dice as you are able to when used in a combo. That would be a lot of motes spent really quick otherwise. Least I think you have to max out your Supp charms just like Extra action charms. Not by my books right now.

You don't have to spend the same amount on variable cost supplementals. However, when using a Combo your standard non-reflexive action or flurry on your action tick can only be made up of actions that can be validly enhanced by the supplemental Charms in your Combo.