Other Petition to move any Group RP Interest check with discord as a requirement to a subforum

[Shawdios]

As the title says, this is a petition for Group Roleplays that requires its players to use Discord for its OOC chat to a sub forum in the Group RP interest checks.

It is extremely frustrating to read through an interest check, and get excited about it, then read the rules to see a Discord requirement. And I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels like this.

Off site interest checks get their own whole forum, but RPs that require Discord for OOC aren’t at the very least prefixed differently?

I propose a subforum (like how Personal discussion is in General discussion) is made in Group Roleplay Interest Checks for those with Off Site OOC.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

 

[Steve Jobs]

Ehh, I feel like the distinction isn't enough to warrant another subforum, but also there are cases where the GM will poll the players on where they want the OOC.

I think the better solution would be GMs adding a "discord required" tag or prefix to their threads so that people can filter them out if on site is preferred.

 

[Idea]

I would like to second that "discord required" tag suggestion. I think a tag would make it easy to check for anyone who is bothered by it, while not otherwise harming the presentation of genre like the prefix would (not that there isn't a lot of misclassification on that front already) and wouldn't segregate discord-using RPs to an entirely different section you would have to go to as if that was their defining feature.

I will also say I'm not very fond of how this question is framed. Because in reality what is being talked about here is RPs that use discord, period. An RP is not going to have two OOC sections and wouldn't make a discord server for everything but OOC and IC. So any RP that uses discord as an OOC at all requires it.

 

[Abyss]

Having the option to tag what kind of OOC chat will be used in an RP is something that I wouldn't mind and I could see being useful for both parties.

However, I don’t think that a subforum would be as effective. Mainly, because I think that discord has become so commonly used that I wonder if the discord subforum would actually receive  more activity at times than the main non-discord ooc forum. [Experiences may vary, but it seems like the majority of RPs that I've joined use it now.]

 

[Onmyoji]

Just a reminder that users can add their own tags now.

Group roleplays that require Discord for roleplaying (not for OOC) should place Interest Check threads within Off-site Ads section. If you see a thread that is not supposed to be in on-site recruitment section, please report it and we'll move it!

 

[Daisie]

I, along with what I'd assume to be a majority of people, am pretty non opinionated about where the OOC takes place. If the interest checks were split like that, I (and everyone else) would be split across two subforums to search for new RPs. It sounds unwieldy. Tags sound far more manageable.

 

[StrixDesmodus]

I refuse to use Discord for OOC or join an rp that uses it. Not only is it an inconvenience to be on multiple sites when I could just be on the one, but the logistics of moderation are a nightmare to me. Not sure how the site rules of RPN can be all that easily enforced for Discord OOCs, and I've had a brush with that issue before. I'd much rather have RPN staff easily backing me up should I need it. Plus, people who want a Discord OOC can find it more easily and I won't have to deal with people asking me to make a Discord OOC for roleplays I host.
This is why I think there should be a separate forum for interest checks of roleplays that are on-site otherwise but would definitely have an OOC on Discord.

 

[Perpetual Zen]

Oh! Yes, I can really get this point. I often use discord for out of character chat but that is only if I have a group base who wants it. I love the aspect of discords uses but I don't want it to be a deterant and I must say I was often startled to see it as a "requirement" in a lot of place. I mean, it's not bad to use discord but there are still some of us out there who don't have access to it all the time. It really boils down to technology. A lot of people think it always has to do with commitment but that's not true. There are still people out there without smart phones. Who live in really remote area's with still little service towers. Or people who just may have grown up without it and to use it is really complicated. I can really relate to that last point.

Like, I mean I can really feel this point! Would it be fixed with a subform? I'm not certain. I think what Onmyoji said was a really good point. An enforcement of tags and offsite ads is really the only way to combat this in this moment. I'm positive our mods will be helpful, they always are!

You could always just express yourself kindly and respectlfully. Like ah man, gosh darn it, I do not use discord I really hope this role play works out but I can't join because of the discord requirement. I mean, it could get the oposter to think a bit. I mean that's what happened with me and I'm a bit more mindful now

Ah- again I do understand how you feel

 

[Cogwork]

It is extremely frustrating to read through an interest check, and get excited about it, then read the rules to see a Discord requirement.

But how is that different from any other requirement though?

I mean, should we create subforums for roleplays based on their post length requirements as well?

 

[Shawdios]

But how is that different from any other requirement though?

I mean, should we create subforums for roleplays based on their post length requirements as well?

Like StrixDesmodus mentioned, its harder to enforce Rpnation site rules if you take OOC chatter off site. A post length requirement doesn't risk someone's safety. Discord OOCs can be a risk to both the adults and minors that join the OOC if you have even just one bad egg.

You could always just express yourself kindly and respectlfully. Like ah man, gosh darn it, I do not use discord I really hope this role play works out but I can't join because of the discord requirement. I mean, it could get the oposter to think a bit. I mean that's what happened with me and I'm a bit more mindful now

Oh i do, in the result of just clicking off the interest check or saying something similar if it was a interest check that hadn't required discord when i expressed interest and the other players vote to use Discord. (and nothing against them for it! this thread is only about the ones that require discord)

 

[Shawdios]

Ehh, I feel like the distinction isn't enough to warrant another subforum, but also there are cases where the GM will poll the players on where they want the OOC.

I think the better solution would be GMs adding a "discord required" tag or prefix to their threads so that people can filter them out if on site is preferred.

I would like to second that "discord required" tag suggestion. I think a tag would make it easy to check for anyone who is bothered by it, while not otherwise harming the presentation of genre like the prefix would (not that there isn't a lot of misclassification on that front already) and wouldn't segregate discord-using RPs to an entirely different section you would have to go to as if that was their defining feature.

I will also say I'm not very fond of how this question is framed. Because in reality what is being talked about here is RPs that use discord, period. An RP is not going to have two OOC sections and wouldn't make a discord server for everything but OOC and IC. So any RP that uses discord as an OOC at all requires it.

the problem with that, is unless it becomes a site rule to add the tag, it wont happen. At least with a sub forum, there wouldn't be any missed.

How would you say i should reframe the question?
If the players vote to use discord, the players vote to use discord. Those who didn't wish to use discord, well they simply bow out of the RP or use discord. That's different from when there's a Discord requirement right out the gate. And what else is a discord server used for but OOC? i can see maybe a lore section, but that can be easily put up on RPnation. An RP doesn't HAVE to have a discord server. That's just the preference of the GM to use it.

 

[Cogwork]

its harder to enforce Rpnation site rules if you take OOC chatter off site.

Not really the argument that I was responding to but ok, how would moving the roleplays with an OOC Discord to a subforum fix this?

ETA:

How would you say i should reframe the question?
If the players vote to use discord, the players vote to use discord. Those who didn't wish to use discord, well they simply bow out of the RP or use discord. That's different from when there's a Discord requirement right out the gate.

I mean, this post clearly shows that your problem isn't with OOC Discords in general, just when they're an requirement from the start. So I feel it's slightly disingenuous to use "Discord OOCs can be a risk to both the adults and minors that join the OOC if you have even just one bad egg." as a reason to justify moving those roleplays to a subforum.

Or does the risk disappear if everyone votes on having the OOC Discord first?

Misunderstand me correctly, had your argument been that roleplays with an OOC Discord should be banned, then the argument would be perfectly fine and I'd even agree with it. But it doesn't work in this case.

 

[Perpetual Zen]

Oh i do, in the result of just clicking off the interest check or saying something similar if it was a interest check that hadn't required discord when i expressed interest and the other players vote to use Discord. (and nothing against them for it! this thread is only about the ones that require discord)


Hmm.. oh of course I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I suppose, it's up to the administrators on how to handle the language situation. You can petition anything you want but it still is up to the administration to decide. I agree, it can be seen as a deterrent and it would be much easier to keep everything on RPN but I don't think it's against any terms of service to have a requirement of out of character chat. Either way, sorry your going through frustration, I'm not sure if a petition is going to change anything. Maybe a discussion with the administrators team? I'm not certain how the tickets work on this site but try going through the sites motions. Again, sorry you're going through this frustration

 

[Idea]

How would you say i should reframe the question?

"With a discord/discord-based OOC" I think would quite suffice as it accurately describes the roleplays being talked about without the forceful implication of being forced to use discord, as though one did not join such a roleplay of their own volition. (or else not join it)

If the players vote to use discord, the players vote to use discord. Those who didn't wish to use discord, well they simply bow out of the RP or use discord. That's different from when there's a Discord requirement right out the gate

Yes it is different, but in the precise opposite way of what you seem to be implying. Your entire point rests on the (understandable) frustration of being attached to an idea for a roleplay you're interested in and then finding out it's actually a roleplay with a discord OOC. If a GM decides to make a roleplay with a discord OOC, that's all that happens. If the OOC is decided later in some fashion, then you will not only have been initially pulled in by the idea but likely had already some commitment to the RP, possibly up to and including already having made a character sheet in some cases. This is a strictly worse scenario. At least in the case of it being told to you from the start you didn't already spend time and effort for the RP or turned down other opportunities.

The implication of saying that OOC being made into a discord OOC by vote later is somehow better than it being that way at the outset, is that the problem you would have with it is not there being a discord OOC, it's that the decision was initially not based on a vote, but based on the fact the GM wanted to make a roleplay with a discord based OOC... Except if this decision is made at the outset as the RP is advertised then one can't argued it's being imposed. After all if people didn't want it, they would simply not join and the RP would never get off the ground.

And what else is a discord server used for but OOC? i can see maybe a lore section, but that can be easily put up on RPnation.

There are alternatives, and in truth I also prefer to put lore and such on on RPNation. There are some who likes the features of discord servers though, and I have used them in the past, particularly in D&D RPs where easy consultation of those other sections combined with discord bots working better for dice rolling than RPN's dice rolling in posts happened to call for it.

An RP doesn't HAVE to have a discord server.

It doesn't. But to many, it's better when it does.

That's just the preference of the GM to use it.

And the players in the game who chose to join it.

the problem with that, is unless it becomes a site rule to add the tag, it wont happen.

It will happen less than if there is a rule, that's true. However...

A) You have yet to make a compelling case for anything remotely approaching a problem that would justify the magnitude of a change you're asking for in the site structure, let alone in mandating it as a rule. RPN would be drowning in subforums if every issue of preference was given it's own.

B) The people who prefer discord OOC seem to be in the majority here. Now this isn't to say whatever the majority prefers rules, but it needs to be taken into account when implementing a solution. Splitting up RPs into a specific subforum can at best let you sort through the RPs easier - the same best case scenario as tags - but unlike tags it comes with added difficulties for the people who do have discord OOC or those with no particular preference by splitting up the RP searches, which can both make searching for an RP harder and lower the potential viewers for their own RPs. It can help, but it's practically guaranteed to do harm above that even in the best case scenario. Which is not to mention cases where the OOC location is decided later or the time and effort needed to adjust the site. Speaking of which...

C) The thing about an entirely different subforum is that short of asking staff, you have no way to move your thread there. Tags on the other hand if memory serves me right, you can edit. Meaning if the RP suddenly starts using a discord tag, you can at least mark it later. This means if an RP didn't start out using a discord OOC but then has one you are not prevented from signaling it without anyone needing to read your thread to find out - possibly several pages of posts of reading, in fact.

At least with a sub forum, there wouldn't be any missed.

That is categorically not true. First of all, there is no such thing as a rule that is never broken. But even looking specifically at on-site rules about tagging, prefixes and thread location those are still quite frequently broken. I haven't looked as much at interest checks as I used to, I still occasionally glimpse at stuff that's clearly marked wrong, especially in the "multiple settings" prefix. And if you want to narrow it even further, there's a subforum for interest checks for offsite IC, and I would put money on the fact that there's plenty of discord IC that is put on other subforums, assuming that discord IC roleplays are numerous enough to be called that in total. So no, making it a separate section wouldn't imply you would be able to completely avoid them - Even if you could justify such a need in the first place. And again, that's without even accounting for RPs that get the discord OOC later rather than at the outset.

 

[StrixDesmodus]

Not really the argument that I was responding to but ok, how would moving the roleplays with an OOC Discord to a subforum fix this?

ETA:

I mean, this post clearly shows that your problem isn't with OOC Discords in general, just when they're an requirement from the start. So I feel it's slightly disingenuous to use "Discord OOCs can be a risk to both the adults and minors that join the OOC if you have even just one bad egg." as a reason to justify moving those roleplays to a subforum.

Or does the risk disappear if everyone votes on having the OOC Discord first?

Misunderstand me correctly, had your argument been that roleplays with an OOC Discord should be banned, then the argument would be perfectly fine and I'd even agree with it. But it doesn't work in this case.

There's nothing to be done about people changing their minds, but if they have it made up in the first place then you can avoid getting invested. And as a host, it's also easier to assert your boundaries related to Discord if your interest check is posted in a specific thread to specify that you won't have a Discord for OOC. Nobody has any excuse to ask for a Discord if they are specifically in the complete Non-Discord section.
Perhaps there could be another thread for undecided interest checks? 'Cause I don't really look at tags first thing, and there isn't a feature to exclude certain tags anyway.

 

[Cogwork]

There's nothing to be done about people changing their minds, but if they have it made up in the first place then you can avoid getting invested. And as a host, it's also easier to assert your boundaries related to Discord if your interest check is posted in a specific thread to specify that you won't have a Discord for OOC. Nobody has any excuse to ask for a Discord if they are specifically in the complete Non-Discord section.
Perhaps there could be another thread for undecided interest checks? 'Cause I don't really look at tags first thing, and there isn't a feature to exclude certain tags anyway.

I think you quoted the wrong post.

 

[StrixDesmodus]

I think you quoted the wrong post.

Oops. Sorry about that.

 

[Steve Jobs]

the problem with that, is unless it becomes a site rule to add the tag, it wont happen. At least with a sub forum, there wouldn't be any missed.

I'm sure most people would be fine with tagging becoming a rule. If the tag still isn't there after the rule change, then report the thread or something. Logistically, it makes no sense to create a subforum for every trait you don't like in an RP. It would only exist to eliminate a mild inconvenience for some, while making it cumbersome for others. It's not worth the hassle when there are simpler solutions. Plus, you'd have to contact a mod if you change your mind on whether or not an RP requires Discord.

How would you say i should reframe the question?
If the players vote to use discord, the players vote to use discord. Those who didn't wish to use discord, well they simply bow out of the RP or use discord. That's different from when there's a Discord requirement right out the gate. And what else is a discord server used for but OOC? i can see maybe a lore section, but that can be easily put up on RPnation. An RP doesn't HAVE to have a discord server. That's just the preference of the GM to use it.

The less hostile, biased framing (IMO) is "Should there be a subforum for roleplays with Discord requirements?" I assume that's what we're discussing, rather than the reasons you dislike using Discord for roleplay stuff.

Like StrixDesmodus mentioned, its harder to enforce Rpnation site rules if you take OOC chatter off site. A post length requirement doesn't risk someone's safety. Discord OOCs can be a risk to both the adults and minors that join the OOC if you have even just one bad egg

This is a reason why you don't want to join an RP that utilizes Discord, not why they should warrant their own subforum. The "risk" would exist regardless.

'Cause I don't really look at tags first thing, and there isn't a feature to exclude certain tags anyway.

The filter drop down button is located on the right hand side of the forum page.

 

[Daisie]

Not expressing an opinion necessarily, just bringing up some thoughts and playing devil's advocate, here.

I'm sure most people would be fine with tagging becoming a rule.

I feel like the mods may object, lol
With the mod team being a bunch of volunteer staff, I feel like the workload would suddenly become overwhelming if people are reporting threads left and right for having the wrong tags.

Whenever I think about if something should be an enforceable rule or not, I think "should this be done at gunpoint?"

Is it worthwhile to be handing out warnings and/or punishments to everyone who doesn't tag their threads correctly?

 

[Idea]

The filter drop down button is located on the right hand side of the forum page.

´
In their defense, I don't believe those filters currently let you filter out a tag, just filter for.

 

[Daisie]

´
In their defense, I don't believe those filters currently let you filter out a tag, just filter for.

The screenshot shows the option "excluded tags" at the bottom of the filter system.

 

[Idea]

The screenshot shows the option "excluded tags" at the bottom of the filter system.

My bad, guess there was an update since I last made full use of the filter system.

 

[StrixDesmodus]

The "risk" would exist regardless.

But those who don't want to take it will be better able to avoid it without having to potentially jump through hoops just to find out if it's something you want to do or not. And those who actually want a Discord OOC will be able to find it better. There's already a separate forum for fully offsite rps. Why can't there be one for RPN-Discord hybrids?

 

[Idea]

There's already a separate forum for fully offsite rps. Why can't there be one for RPN-Discord hybrids?

The answer might be in the question.

But those who don't want to take it will be better able to avoid it without having to potentially jump through hoops just to find out if it's something you want to do or not.

And everyone else will be stuck with a worse deal in finding and advertising their roleplays. This would only work better if everyone fell strictly into one camp or the other, but that's not the case for most people, and even if it was considering the ratio the separate subforum would probably for non-discord OOCs as those are currently in the minority.

 

[StrixDesmodus]

And everyone else will be stuck with a worse deal in finding and advertising their roleplays. This would only work better if everyone fell strictly into one camp or the other, but that's not the case for most people, and even if it was considering the ratio the separate subforum would probably for non-discord OOCs as those are currently in the minority.

Maybe if there was some (Non-tag based) way to make it clear where your roleplay is on the spectrum? A box to tick before posting an interest check that is either "all onsite" "site undecided" "Partially offsite" and "fully offsite" or some combination thereof?

'Cause sometimes it's like a bait-and-switch to see an interest check that has an offsite OOC not mentioned until you've clicked through a bunch of code and gotten interested in the premise already, or to just plain not be told about the plans to have an offsite OOC until you've expressed interest and have a character in mind.

I imagine it can be just as disappointing for those who want a Discord to not know until the last minute either.