Pathfinder 2.0 Playtest Chat! =)

[Purr]

Heya Gang!

Instead of cluttering up our Adventurers' Table thread (which changes from chapter to chapter), I've instead created this new thread! Here, we can talk away about all things Pathfinder 2.0 without getting in the way of our current game. I'd like everyone to spend at least a little time in the main book (and if you don't, that's fine - I'll handle the details in-game). =)

I'll start things off with this: What have you noticed about PF 2.0?

The first things I noticed were the lack of a half-elven and half-orc races. Then I noticed they have now only three types of actions and time is managed in a way I think I find to my liking. The game seems simplified with less skills, too. That, I am hoping, is a boon. But if it's not, maybe we can keep doing skills the way we have been in 1.0.

What do you think?

 

[Purr]

In related news, they do have half-elves and half-orcs - they are part of the human ancestry. =)

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

What with my knowledge of Pathfinder being as limited as it is, you'll understand if I withhold my opinion for the time being. In fact, I'm not sure if I'll have anything to say down the line, either, BUT I didn't want your posts here to go unanswered (ˆˆ)

Version 2.0 does feel like an upgrade across the board, so I guess I'll be down with whatever you guys are. Just as long as I finally get to cast some spells!

 

[Purr]

I am with you, Wolf. I want you to get into the action, and once it starts, I think you guys will have plenty to use your player skills on (a good dungeon does not lack for activity).

As for unanswered posts here, thanks! Even if this thread turns into a note-taking thread for my own uses (of which I have plenty in My Private Workshop for just that purpose), I want it to be open to everyone in case someone does step up and have an opinion. It might happen sooner or later.

 

[Purr]

Reading was never something I was good at when I was growing up. Most folks who have what I have have a lot of roadblocks and many never become decent readers and writers. I kept at it and now I have players who ask me if I've ever seriously considered writing professionally (*thumbs up to Psychie in our Robotech: Broadsword game*).

How does this work into Pathfinder 2.0 BETA? Well, I find myself having reread and reread certain new ideas over and over again to get a firm grasp on them. I keep at it until I think I have them. Only then do I feel confident with using them as a Dungeon Master.

Still, so far, most of these rules seem to make their own kind of sense. Like Proficiencies. Either you're trained or you're untrained. If you are trained, then how well? The ideas here in 2.0 make me think differently than PF 1.0 in that your skills are lot more than just numbers. In my Sharseya game, every 5 ranks you have in a skill provides a certain form of mastery over that skill. Did you purchase 10 ranks in Ride for your character? Then, chances are, you don't even have to roll to stay in the saddle even while galloping at full speed, in melee with another rider, while crashing through a forest. Meanwhile, your buddies are just doing their darndest to hang on their own mounts! =)

In PF 2.0 BETA here, skills are simplified in that there are a lot fewer of them. Everyone gets Perception. That makes sense! A character's expertise (or lack thereof) means a great deal, too. Also there is not as much math to do. Feats are plentiful, not just in number but in having reasonable access to them. The combination of Feats and Skills can really make a difference.

At least that's what I'm seeing so far. Research continues! =)

 

[Purr]

For anyone with serious time on their hands, please enjoy this wonderful Paizo-provided audio podcast of the very first Pathfinder 2.0 Playtest! This is good for a lot of laughs while getting to know the game, thanks to one Game Master and his six players. =)

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

The reasoning that your skills are more than just numbers reminds me of the Amber Diceless RPG system (dating back from the 1980s). There, this even holds up when two characters go against each other.

For example, if you are significantly better at swordplay than your opponent, unless your opponent can turn the situation to their advantage somehow (or neutralize yours), you almost certainly win. Your character doesn't suddenly start slipping and missing owing to bad dice rolls while your opponent slowly whittles away your HP.

 

[Purr]

Right. Now, while I am in large agreement that higher skill should win out over lower skill and especially non-existent skill, I am still quite the believer that people have their good days and bad days. In the martial arts, I have witnessed very skilled people come in having a great day where it seemed no one could get them on the mat, then perhaps a week later, they are having a bad day and, while doing well, are clearly not at their previous performance level.

I often go with a style of play that lets the dice "tell" me what is happening. But even there, I have my limitations.

If, say, Nivirea the 10th level Sorceress to square up against any, say 4th level Sorceress and go at it with gear and spells available appropriate to their level, well the 4th level character is going down. And hard. It is only when skill is of equal or about equal level that I really look to the dice to see which way it goes.

My best example of this is still the time Kaerri's character, Brendoran, met his (as yet undiscovered) Ko monk sister and faced her in combat. While Bren had his advantages and she had hers, Bren's did not, in the end, matter because Kaerri could hardly roll above, say, a 15 on the d20 while I couldn't hardly roll under! Suffice to say, Bren got soundly trounced and, to his player's credit, both Kaerri and Bren walked away from that fight having learned some good lessons that serve them both to this day. The exact opposite could have occured and Kaerri and I would have likely been equally bewildered.

 

[Kaerri]

My best example of this is still the time Kaerri's character, Brendoran, met his (as yet undiscovered) Ko monk sister and faced her in combat. While Bren had his advantages and she had hers, Bren's did not, in the end, matter because Kaerri could hardly roll above, say, a 15 on the d20 while I couldn't hardly roll under! Suffice to say, Bren got soundly trounced and, to his player's credit, both Kaerri and Bren walked away from that fight having learned some good lessons that serve them both to this day. The exact opposite could have occured and Kaerri and I would have likely been equally bewildered.

One of the funny things about that is that Bren went into it pretty overconfident, too. So even though the result was because of the dice, it made a fair amount of sense story-wise too.

 

[Purr]

Heya Gang! Kaerri Sherwood Captain Hesperus Wolf Rawrrr Psychie (Cap'n is not yet in-game, but I don't want him to miss what I've got here. This is important).

I just want to let you know that my research and behind-the-scenes train for Pathfinder 2.0 Playtest is chugging along nicely! When it eventually hits, be prepared for the following:

-- Change and lots of it! Some you will like, some you might not, but our entire gaming system as we know it will be altered big-time. Remember how RP Nation has changed over the years (and now we're in XenForo 2.0?) I'm talking about gaming changes on that level where every one of us will be trying something very new. I like most of the changes! PF 2.0 Playtest looks definitely smoother easier to play with plenty of roleplaying avenues to enjoy, but the system remains close enough to PF 1.0 that it's still familiar and fun!

-- Be prepared to have your roleplaying skills challenged. This part has little to do with PF 2.0 Playtest and much, much more to do with how I have arranged all of this to fit our story in Sharseya and Highwind together! Put fairly, Gang, I am briefly going to railroad the hell out of you. Choo-chooooooo! =) And when you find yourself at the stop to get off, you are going to be in, not only unfamiliar territory out-of-game, but in-game too! I'm having a blast just creating and writing it!

You are still playing the same people you rolled up, just expect alterations, especially to your character's class, ancestry (race), and background (which now plays a key role in character creation). I am writing up each of your character sheets from scratch as we speak (including NPCs). Plus, I've added my own special "little" roleplaying monkey-wrench or two in here. Hee hee! =)

However, when we start PF 2.0 Playtest, I will be temporarily taking away Powerpaw, Mamapaw, Oscar, and Sparkle from your group. You get to keep Bria. Why? I think I need to for the sake of balance and ease. The adventure I have planned will work quite well with six people in your party (Oreleth, Otiorin, Luna, Nivirea, Brendoran and, and Bria). Plus, it's a good balance for what the Wayward Wanderers are about to get into. Play your cards right and you get them back later. Play them wrong, and well, you know... hope the rest of the party rezzes your character, right? =)

Fun times and challenges await! =)

That's all I have for now. I'd better stop here before I give something good away. =)

Honor and fun,
Dann =)

 

[Purr]

For those of you who have the .pdf, let me recommend you check out page 290. that will introduce you to how the system works and help you with the rest of the game in general, especially with your characters.

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

Sorry to ask such a noob question so late, but where can I get this 2.0 PDF and do I need it for the game? I've been to Paizo's site but I couldn't find it...

 

[Purr]

Heya Wolf Rawrrr ! Nice avatar!

I posted it a bunch of times in The Adventurers' Table, including recently. I would like to post it here for you, but my phone is really funky about these things...

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

It's ok. I'll sniff it out.

The new avatar is simply a color invert of the old one *woof*

 

[Purr]

Don't care! It's still cool! 8D

 

[Purr]

Wolf Rawrrr Did you find it? =)

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

Uhh... If you mean the demo playtest thingy, hosted on Paizo's site. Otherwise... no *whine*

It's weird. I'd expected there to be a huge button saying "PATHFINDER 2.0 - GET IT HERE" if this thing is so big. One shouldn't struggle so much trying to find what seems to be the company's flagship product on the official website lol. I guess it's not officially complete yet? Maybe the playtest thing is all that there is?

 

[Purr]

Heya Wolf Rawrrr There was! Just as you're saying it! Let me get it again.

Yep! Here it is! Right where I found it the first time (Googled "Pathfinder 2.0 Playtest). You have to create an account and sign in. Then download the main book from there (and whatever else you might want to check out). =)

 

[Kaerri]

Yes, the playtest is all there is - it's in Beta like a video game. The official version will be released at some point later.

 

[Purr]

Paizo is aiming for August of next year. =)

 

[Purr]

Okies! "HOW TO READ YOUR NEW CHARACTER SHEET" or "WHAT IN THE HECK DOES ALL THIS STUFF MEAN (NOW)?"

This is the 2.0 tutorial. I'll add any personal opinions or neat, interesting factoids in parenthesis. I am writing it up with the new roleplayer in mind. Doing it this way (in plain English) will help me to understand, too!

A few key acronyms I use often:
DM - This stands for Dungeon Master, the storyteller and judge of the game. That's me.
PC - Player Character. This is the combination of you (the Player) and the persona you create to interact in our game (the character).
DC - Difficulty Class. This is the number to meet or beat on a d20 roll. It's most often used to find out if a skill was successful or a Saving Throw was made, but DCs are used in a great variety of ways.

Name - The name of your character. (I would like titles and nicknames to be written in such a way as not to confuse the reader.)
Ancestry - Formerly Race. From Ancestry, you receive your character's hit points, size, speed, ability boosts and flaw, starting languages, traits, and special abilities. (Half-elves and Half-orcs fall under the Human Ancestry.)
Background - From Background, you receive a nicely-summed-up idea of where your character came from. Background also provides bonus ability boosts, a bonus feat, and a bonus skill. (Some of these feats are unique to the Background in question.)
Deity (Belief System) - The deity(ies) your character worships, if any.
Class and Level - Your character's profession. Class provides your Key Ability (or Class DC. DC stands for Difficulty Class and is the number one must meet or exceed when making attempts that involve any chance of failure).
Size - Humans are medium-sized creatures. Halflings are small-sized creatures. Centaurs are large-sized creatures.
Alignment - Your character's ethical code or lack thereof. Alignment is a roleplaying tool that often adds personality, "attitude," and depth to individuals and entire planes of existence alike.
Speed - How fast your character moves per action. Modifiers include Ancestry, armor worn (if any), and encumbrance. (Your character has three actions every round. A full-plate-mail-laden elf and a swimsuit-wearing dwarf move at the same speed, at least until one trips the other!)

Gender - Male or Female. (There are no differences or limitations in ability scores between the two.)
Age - In years. (There are no differences in ability scores due to age.)
Height - How tall your character is. (Please provide in feet and centimeters for our friends on either side of the pond! I.e. 6'6" [198.2 cm)])
Weight - How heavy your character is. (Please provide in pounds and kilograms for our friends on either side of the pond! I.e. 250 lb [113.4 Kg])
Hair - The color of your character's hair or fur (You are welcome to provide hairstyle descriptions.)
Eyes - The color of your character's eyes. (Adjectives are welcome here, too.)

Ability Scores - the six traits that basically provide a character's physical, mental, and spiritual traits, including any bonuses or penalties. These add or subtract from dice rolls you make. All ability scores except Constitution are used in Skills. (The "average" scale for typical humans is 3-18 with 10-11 as average. Bonuses and penalties fall on even numbers. A Class's Key Ability refers to one of these Ability Scores. I.e. A cleric uses Wisdom as their Key Ability)
Strength - affects melee attacks and damage, encumbrance ("Bulk") limit, and the overall ability to manipulate items including one's own body.
Dexterity - affects Reflex Saving Throws, Initiative, Armor Class, and most distance-based attacks and damage.
Constitution - affects Hit Points, Fortitude saving Throws, and overall physical hardiness and endurance.
Intelligence - affects the number of Skills a character receives and bonus languages learned.
Wisdom - affects Will Saving Throws, attempts at Perception, and your character's good sense and intuition.
Charisma - affects one's Resonance, personal magnetism, and overall strength of personality.

Hit Points - This is how much punishment a character can take before falling unconscious. Run out of hit points and your character falls unconscious and can enter the Dying condition. If you reach Dying 4, your character is dead. (It appears PCs don't roll hit points anymore! You simply get your maximum! However, the same seems to go for monsters, too. Hit points can be restored in a number of ways, including getting rest and magical healing.)
Armor Class - The Difficulty Class, starting at 10, that a creature must meet or exceed to cause damage to your character in melee and ranged combat. (A single creature with a high Armor Class, good Saving Throws, and high Hit Points can often last a long time in combat.)
Touch Armor Class - Your character's armor class minus any shield and armor bonuses, if any. (Spells sometimes require a successful Touch Armor Class roll to take effect. Some things in the game should be altogether avoided as opposed to blocked or parried.)
Resonance Points - The number of magical items your character can actively use, provided by your character's Charisma modifier + character level. Your character basically uses their willpower every time they activate a magic item. (I am very strongly considering ditching Resonance Points altogether, largely due to my deep roots in 1st Edition Dungeons and Dragons.)
Spell Points - A pool of points your character spends in order to use some Class features like spells and powers (i.e. Monks use Spell Points to channel Ki Powers, Paladins to use Champion Powers). Some spells have no Spell Point cost. Your maximum Spell Points typically equals your Key Ability modifier. (Some Feats add to your Spell Point pool maximum.)
Hero Points - Special points provided by performing heroic endeavors that PCs can use to reroll a d20, stave off death, and the like. (I also offer Hero Points as rewards for some particularly notable actions or writing performed by the player.)
Maximum Bulk - The limit of mass and weight your character can haul around.

Saving Throws - These are d20 rolls made against a Difficulty Class to avoid a negative effect. (Each of the Classes has Saving Throws they are good at and not-so-good at, except Monk which excels in all three.)
Fortitude Saving Throw - The DC to beat to see if your character is physically tough enough to resist an effect (like Stun or Knockback).
Reflex Saving Throw - The DC to beat to see if your character is agile, quick, or the like to resist an affect (like a Fireball spell or a tripwire trap).
Will Saving Throw - The DC to beat to see if your character possesses the willpower or spiritual fortification to resist a mental effect (like a Charm spell or the Shaken Condition).

Skills - Knowledges, education, or talents characters use to interact with the world around them. Each uses an Ability Score to help determine success (like Dexterity for the Thievery skill). Ranks are: Untrained (level -2), Trained (level + 0), Expert (level +1), Master (level +2), Legendary (level +3) - only Signature skills can be trained at Master or Legendary ability.
Perception - An ability all PCs possess (and nearly all monsters) to determine their awareness in a given situation or atmosphere.

Signature Ability - A trait or ability pretty much unique to your character brought about by their personality, habits, or some merit they were born with or learned during the course of their adventures. (This is a special something you bring to life as a PC over the course of developing your character. It can be Class or Ancestry-related or the like - just as long as the trait is absolutely true for the PC in question. For my fellow Bronies and PegaSisters out there, think of it a little like a power or talent provided by a Cutie Mark).

 

[Kaerri]

Question #1:
What is the difference between "preparing" spells and "memorizing" spells? On Bren's character sheet under Feats and Powers, the Channel Energy power states (among other things) that he can cast the heal spell a number of times per day without preparing it ahead of time. In the same tab, the Healer's Freedom power states that he does not have to memorize spells but can cast anything on their list, of which heal is one.

Question #2:
Under skills you say, "Ranks are: Untrained (level -2), Trained (level + 0), Expert (level +1)," and so on. Bren's skill list is showing untrained skills as getting a -2, while trained are getting a +1. Shouldn't it be either untrained at -1 and trained at +1, or untrained at -2 and trained at +0? Or am I interpreting the (level -2) and (level +0) wrongly?

 

[Purr]

1. Hmm. Looking at that, I realize I ought to reword that phrasing. Thanks for raising that question!

Memorizing is a form of preparing spells. Clerics, Druids, and Wizards must memorize specific spells, whereas Bards, Sorcerers, and Healers don't - these latter Classes can cast any spell on their "Spells Known" lists.

Channel Energy is a Power I took from Clerics (who memorize). It means the Cleric can can cast heal a number of times in addition to whatever spells they memorize. Since Healers don't memorize, I should change the wording. In both cases, it means the Cleric and Healer can cast heal a number of times without drawing from their Spell Points.

2. Yes! I need to edit everyone's character sheets now. Thanks again!

 

[Purr]

The Tutorial continues!

In this part, I cover Actions per Round and the Critical Hit/Fumble system.

PCs in Pathfinder 2.0 get 3 actions per round, regardless of level. This is a big thing. Why? Because it completely changes the way combat works on many levels.

Let's talk basic spellcasting. Want to cast a spell that only has a Verbal Component? No problem! It only costs one action! You could use the other two for movement, and say, climb up a wall and take cover behind a barricade, or to cast another spell (yes, you can cast more than one spell in a round now). However, spells work very differently from 1.0. Want to cast a spell with all three (Verbal, Somatic, and Material) components? Each takes up an action and therefore said spell takes up your turn. However, said spell is likely very potent. Also, one can use extra actions to provide extra power to a spell. The differences between Wizards and Sorcerers are worth looking into.

Let's talk melee and ranged combat. With three actions, you can traverse terrain to, say, get an advantage on your foe before attacking. Or, you can just go all out and attack three times in a row. Or a bit of both, if you choose. However, every attack beyond the first is performed with a cumulative -5 on the roll (your first attack is rolled as normal, the second at -5 to hit, the third at -10).

That's important because Critical Hits and Fumbles can now be attained in two ways. For Critical Hits, one can get lucky and roll that Natural 20 on the d20 (or whatever number a magically enhanced weapon might require, like 19 or 20). The second way is to roll with a result that exceeds your target's Armor Class by 10. So, if you're a 1st level Barbarian, you might not Critically Hit those orcs so often. If you're 10th level? You're Critically Hitting them with every other swing.

Fumbles are a similar story but on the other end of the d20. Roll a 1 and you Fumble (no second roll required as in 1.0's Shop Talk). Miss your target Armor Class by 10 and you Fumble. This is why it's important to use your actions per round wisely. That third action spent as an attack can be very chancy, but nice if it scores.

This same function applies just the same to Skills except that you're rolling against your DC (Difficulty Class) instead of an Armor Class.

Of course, all of this applies to monsters, too.

So, think wisely and look before you leap! =)

 

[Sherwood]

Question: In 1.0, you can go defensive and get a boost to your AC for that action. Since 2.0 has three actions per round, can you do something like, move - attack - defend and get a bonus to your AC for the round?