Other Pairing Preference Discussion

[asoi]

This may just be a me thing, but I've noticed some odd patterns when people request partners. If this is something you do, I mean no harm/disrespect, I'm just explaining how I feel.

Whenever someone requests M/F only, they always seem to have a disclaimer that they're not homophobic or they just "dont know how to write gay couples". That always seems to leave a bad taste in my mouth. As a lesbian myself, it all just seems very patronizing. The idea of someone being homophobic never crosses my mind when I read someone request for M/F.

When people say they "dont know how to write gay couples," that's when I get mad. Gay couples are not something you need to learn how to write!! There is no difference between gay and straight couples aside from the one physical aspect. Keep your excuses!

One that made me feel very upset was when someone made sure to note that you had to be accepting of LGBT to rp with them, but said they wouldn't do FxF because it made them uncomfortable. Just.... ugh.

Sorry I got pretty worked up, but I wanted to see if anyone else feels the same

 

[rae2nerdy]

So as to the "I'm not a homophobe but ..." I think this is a reflection of the demographics on this site. A majority of the people on here are terrified of confrontation. So I see this as a overcompensation. They don't want to do gay couples but they also don't want to seem "mean." A secure person would just leave it at - "I don't like X sorry." but an insecure person is going to go into a whole tangent about how they don't mean to offend but really they don't like X pleasedon'thatemei'mnotabigot.

As to the "I can't play gay couples" while it's eye-rolling I think it's not really meant in a mean-spirited way. It's one of those errors in execution rather than intent. They aren't saying that gay people are a foreign species. Any more than them saying "I don't play X gender it makes me uncomfortable" means they hate that gender IRL.

What they are actually saying is "In order for me to emotionally connect to a romance I have to be able to identify with my character. I can't identify if they are [different sexuality/gender]."

 

[Idea]

Whenever someone requests M/F only, they always seem to have a disclaimer that they're not homophobic or they just "dont know how to write gay couples". That always seems to leave a bad taste in my mouth. As a lesbian myself, it all just seems very patronizing.

Well, it isn't meant to be. While I personally don't see the need for it either, I get what kind of fear would get people to say something of the sort. "I am not a homophobe" is not something you would have to say, but the most vocal among social justice activists tend to take pretty much everything personally or as an attack on "their kind" for lack of a better expression. In fact, I have actually been accused of being homophobic in the past during a time when I only played MxF pairings. I don't want to say much more cause I don't want to start a flame war here, but people's reputation can be ruined by such accusations so I can understand why someone would want some kind of protection, even if I personally think RPN isn't that volatile of a community and that as far as protection against accusations go it is not quite the best.

When people say they "dont know how to write gay couples," that's when I get mad. Gay couples are not something you need to learn how to write!! There is no difference between gay and straight couples aside from the one physical aspect. Keep your excuses!

It's not so much an excuse as something people worry about. People also worry about, for instance, playing a gender not matching their own, because they often feel "they wouldn't know how to play the other gender". They worry about misrepresenting or coming across as awkward.

One that made me feel very upset was when someone made sure to note that you had to be accepting of LGBT to rp with them, but said they wouldn't do FxF because it made them uncomfortable. Just.... ugh.

That is a bit ironic, then again what someone is or not comfortable with isn't really based on reason, it just happens.

I don't know if what I had to say will help you at all, and if it upsets you more, I apologize. All I can recommend is that you do pretty much the opposite of what you're doing here: Instead of a thread expressing anger, trying to show people that this isn't as intimidating as it may first appear to them might help. Make a thread showing how LGBT couples aren't really that different from hetero ones, or that there is no need to fear persecution for not being comfortable with certain things.

 

[rae2nerdy]

(second half of my above post.)

That said I totally understand having certain turns of phrase sticking in your craw. I'm the same way when people talk about needing romance to make characters more "realistic" or "interesting."

While they aren't necessarily calling out aromantic people in the same way your example calls out gay people it still feels crummy. Like oh so people who don't form romantic relationships don't exist? Or they aren't interesting and worthy of being written about?

I don't think people are intending to be mean when they say this. But it is still super aggravating.

Edit - heads up Idea I think something funky is going on with your posts. Not sure if it's a browser issue or what but I thought I"d let you know in case you don't see it from your end. Below is a screenshot. Never mind it changed so maybe it's on my end.

Spoiler: Idea Post

 

[Idea]

Edit - heads up @Idea I think something funky is going on with your posts. Not sure if it's a browser issue or what but I thought I"d let you know in case you don't see it from your end. Below is a screenshot. Never mind it changed so maybe it's on my end.

Spoiler: Idea Post

undefined

Don't worry RPN just screws up sometimes. It should be back to normal when you load the page again.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Don't worry RPN just screws up sometimes. It should be back to normal when you load the page again.

yeah it went back. i was just concerned for a minute like something was happening on your end and I thought i'd give you a heads up.

 

[Idea]

yeah it went back. i was just concerned for a minute like something was happening on your end and I thought i'd give you a heads up.

Thanks for the concern

 

[Pandaskel]

As someone who has put those very phrases into search threads, allow me to explain myself.

First, I’m a Christian, and not one of the hip-with-the-times ones. Let’s get that out of the way. Yeah, yeah, I’m a hateful bigot, the KKK, 2nd Amendment, conservitards. We done? Nice.

Second, everyone above is right about the “I’m not a homophobe please don’t hate me”. We’re just trying to be politically correct and save our skin. It’s a touchy world out here.

Third, when I say “I wouldn’t know how to write a gay couple”, it’s because I wouldn’t know how to write a gay couple. Anymore than I would know how to write a person who works as a ranch hand, suffers from alcoholism, or has a promising career in the culinary arts. Why? Because I’ve never worked with horses or livestock, never gotten drunk, and don’t love cooking.

The only reason I can write characters of the opposite gender, of races/ethnicities that aren’t my own, or with hobbies/careers that I’ve never had is because I’ve been close to lots of people that were like that. I’ve had firsthand experience, even if it was vicarious. Gay couples? I’ve been friends with one: my best friend and this non-binary person I helped her ask out. And that doesn’t even count because the person didn’t identify female!

If I wrote a gay couple, it’d be awkward, it wouldn’t flow right, and I’d probably end up using stereotypes that I’ve been exposed to through heteronormative society and media. Do we really want that?

So sorry for using those phrases. It makes sense in our heads. Not so much in other people’s.

Now here’s a question: Why do people who make search threads only ever play submissives? First of all, the idea that all relationships have some kind of dominant power dynamic is slightly disturbing, and second, never in my life have I ever seen anyone in a search thread who requested to play a dominant man. It’s always submissive females or males looking for dominant males. It’s wild.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Now here’s a question: Why do people who make search threads only ever play submissives? First of all, the idea that all relationships have some kind of dominant power dynamic is slightly disturbing, and second, never in my life have I ever seen anyone in a search thread who requested to play a dominant man. It’s always submissive females or males looking for dominant males. It’s wild.

So this actually ties into your above point. You don't write gay couples because you don't feel you can identify with them properly. So if you were to write them it would feel awkward (on your end at least).

It's the same thing with submissive roleplayers. If you look at the demographics on this site I'd say a solid 80% or more of the roleplayers on here are very insecure people. They're naturally passive in real life and tend to get hyper sensitive to perceived criticism. This is not meant to be a dig at those people or anything just stating some facts.

And because they themselves are naturally submissive/passive in real life they will in turn most strongly identify with passive/submissive characters. Not only that but when they are looking for "dominant" characters that often translates to them also seeking dominant players. They want to partner up with someone who is comfortable taking the narrative lead and steering the roleplay.

For a select sub group of them they are also looking for dominant people of the correct gender IRL to form a romantic relationship with, but that's a whole different thread discussion.

 

[PhoenixMire]

I totally agree with pretty much everything pointed out on this thread so far. I'm the type of person that doesn't often like romance in the first place, and when I am occasionally fine with it, I'd prefer it to be M/F. It's my personal taste. I've been trying to be less apologetic about it lately, but it's hard - I've had people call me or my friends "homophobes" just because we have a personal preference. In such a sensitive world where, sadly, a lot of people get offended, it's mostly being "better safe than sorry" to put in a little disclaimer.

At the end of the day, it's the same thing as someone disliking slice of life and loving fantasy. There's nothing wrong with their opinion - same with people who are the opposite and prefer slice of life and don't like fantasy! They shouldn't feel like they have to apologize for their personal tastes. Unfortunately, since some people have probably been attacked for what they like and dislike, then they're apologetic about it and they feel they have to clarify.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I've been trying to be less apologetic about it lately, but it's hard - I've had people call me or my friends "homophobes" just because we have a personal preference. In such a sensitive world where, sadly, a lot of people get offended, it's mostly being "better safe than sorry" to put in a little disclaimer.

Except I think that the problem with this take is that these people who get easily offended are just going to find a different reason to get mad even with the disclaimer. Because they could just accuse you of doing the whole "I'm not racist but..." routine only with homosexuality.

So in general I find it best to just ignore these people entirely. The ones that aren't arguing in good faith are never going to be satifised no matter how many knots you tie yourself in trying to appease them. Because they don't want to be appeased, they want to be able to attack you to make themselves feel better.

As for the rest of us we're just like..."Dude I don't care why you don't want to do gay couples. Just say it's not your thing and move on."

 

[PhoenixMire]

Except I think that the problem with this take is that these people who get easily offended are just going to find a different reason to get mad even with the disclaimer. Because they could just accuse you of doing the whole "I'm not racist but..." routine only with homosexuality.

So in general I find it best to just ignore these people entirely. The ones that aren't arguing in good faith are never going to be satifised no matter how many knots you tie yourself in trying to appease them. Because they don't want to be appeased, they want to be able to attack you to make themselves feel better.

As for the rest of us we're just like..."Dude I don't care why you don't want to do gay couples. Just say it's not your thing and move on."

That's why I've been trying to be less apologetic about it lately, but it still is hard for me, especially since I get stressed easily. It usually makes me feel better when I do put a bit of a disclaimer there, but again, I've been trying not to lately.

 

[rae2nerdy]

That's why I've been trying to be less apologetic about it lately, but it still is hard for me, especially since I get stressed easily. It usually makes me feel better when I do put a bit of a disclaimer there, but again, I've been trying not to lately.

Certainly you can do whatever makes you comfortable. Just warning you it might not make much difference with people whose whole goal is just to make you upset. But if that is the case you can try blocking them.

 

[PhoenixMire]

Certainly you can do whatever makes you comfortable. Just warning you it might not make much difference with people whose whole goal is just to make you upset. But if that is the case you can try blocking them.

Well I haven't had anyone bug me since I started putting disclaimers in, but I honestly believe that's purely out of luck, lol. I do think you're right - people who want to be offended and pick a fight for no reason are going to get offended and pick fights regardless.

 

[Idea]

Why do people who make search threads only ever play submissives? First of all, the idea that all relationships have some kind of dominant power dynamic is slightly disturbing, and second, never in my life have I ever seen anyone in a search thread who requested to play a dominant man. It’s always submissive females or males looking for dominant males. It’s wild.

What rae2nerdy said here is definitely a major factor, however I'd like to add an additional one that I believe may be part of the cause as well: It's just plain easier.

If you think about a power dynamic, the one that always has to take innitiative is the dominant: The dominant gives orders, the dominant makes the moves, the dominant points the direction. By making the character dynamic center on this "dominant/submissive" dynamic in the first place, one of the members pretty much shoves the responsability for pushing the roleplay forward to their partner, with or without realizing it. It may not even be that they don't want to do the work, but just that feel that they work better with someone giving them a prompt in what to do, without realizing that they fail to return this.

A third factor perhaps, though one that admitedly I don't have the data necessary to make it hold water (necessarily) is that dominant are often depicted like assh*les, psychos and all kinds of negative behavioral tendencies. Seldom does a player actually appreciate being the prick in the room, even if it's just their character, heck, ESPECIALLY if it's just their character. Well, actually, small correction: They don't like being seen as one. They may like playing one, but the moment players get upset is when you point out that the guy who never helps anyone and is consistently sarcastic about everything isn't exactly being a good semaritan.
As a result, if you view the dynamic in binaries, you'd tend to pick the one that is usually viewed as "the good/kind one" or as "the victim".

 

[Pandaskel]

What rae2nerdy said here is definitely a major factor, however I'd like to add an additional one that I believe may be part of the cause as well: It's just plain easier.

If you think about a power dynamic, the one that always has to take innitiative is the dominant: The dominant gives orders, the dominant makes the moves, the dominant points the direction. By making the character dynamic center on this "dominant/submissive" dynamic in the first place, one of the members pretty much shoves the responsability for pushing the roleplay forward to their partner, with or without realizing it. It may not even be that they don't want to do the work, but just that feel that they work better with someone giving them a prompt in what to do, without realizing that they fail to return this.

A third factor perhaps, though one that admitedly I don't have the data necessary to make it hold water (necessarily) is that dominant are often depicted like assh*les, psychos and all kinds of negative behavioral tendencies. Seldom does a player actually appreciate being the prick in the room, even if it's just their character, heck, ESPECIALLY if it's just their character. Well, actually, small correction: They don't like being seen as one. They may like playing one, but the moment players get upset is when you point out that the guy who never helps anyone and is consistently sarcastic about everything isn't exactly being a good semaritan.
As a result, if you view the dynamic in binaries, you'd tend to pick the one that is usually viewed as "the good/kind one" or as "the victim".

That’s... grossing me out. People think Mr. Gray and the chick in Fifty Shades is what people and relationships look like? Yeesh. Poor kids are probably in some weird ass dating situations in that case as well.

I made another thread a while back asking something similar to this and got some interesting answers: Other - Why do people RP Abuse x Abused, Dom x Sub, Bully x Bullied, etc.?

 

[Idea]

That’s... grossing me out. People think Mr. Gray and the chick in Fifty Shades is what people and relationships look like? Yeesh. Poor kids are probably in some weird ass dating situations in that case as well.

I made another thread a while back asking something similar to this and got some interesting answers, I’ll link it if I find it.

Well, maybe, but keep in mind what I said above only applies to people who think of relationships are power dynamics, who think in binaries. Most people, even "poor kids" understand that the problem isn't so reductive.

 

[rae2nerdy]

also I think Idea was talking about was when Dominant x Submissive relationship is used in a binary way it often translates to a Villain / Innocent dichotomy.

The dominant is the “villainous” or bad/unlikable character that is being pawned off on the partner.

Where the submissive is the “innocent” or good/sympathetic character who the original requester plays.

And that’s because no one wants to play the “bad guy” in a romance.

EDIT Like the requester might be attracted to the “bad boy” redemption story where someone starts out being a horrible dick and changes for the “special/right woman”.

I’m given to understand that’s what fans of Fifty Shades think happened in that series.

 

[jones573]

ANYWAY



@ asoi – Yes! I feel very much the same. I’ve kinda stopped checking the OnexOne search boards because I hate getting interested in a plot or another writer and then finding that kind of nonsense.



I agree that the various ‘disclaimers’ people add after they say they are only looking for F/M relationships are super off-putting and uncomfortable- Like, if someone says ‘right now I’m looking for a writing partner for plots with a F/M relationship in SciFi or alternative history settings’, I’m gonna think ‘this isn’t a match for me’ and move on. But when they pull the ‘it’s just my preference’ or ‘I don’t know how to write gay people’ card or whatever, I have to physically stop myself from rolling my eyes!



(I’m a bisexual woman, and I PROMISE it is 100% realistic for a girl with a crush on another girl to act almost exactly the same as she might if she had a crush on a guy, because that is how I live my life everyday. I flirt by proudly showing off my most cringeworthy puns and getting incredibly sweaty-palmed, no matter anyone’s gender.)



Honestly if people cant be bothered to research or ask, or even make an attempt at writing non-straight couples, they are either lazy, not very creative, or both, and I’ve decided to just be grateful for their honesty. They’re bad writers, and they aren’t people I’m interested in interacting with during my free time, so as frustrating as it might be, it’s better for me in the long run.



I’m sorry you’ve been having this experience, and dealing with that one writer in particular must have been really hard- I guess all I can really give as advice (if that’s what you’re interested in) is to just keep trying to write the stories you want to see, with writing partners who support you. (I’ve also been trying to do a quick scroll down on a 1x1 search post if it’s really long, to see if they list any specific pairings they do or do not want, so I don’t get excited about anything else they might have written! )



And you don’t need to apologize for getting worked up, I think it’s perfectly understandable! I find it super disrespectful and invalidating as well. Thanks for sharing your frustration, and I hope you have better luck in the future!

 

[PhoenixMire]

Honestly if people cant be bothered to research or ask, or even make an attempt at writing non-straight couples, they are either lazy, not very creative, or both, and I’ve decided to just be grateful for their honesty. They’re bad writers, and they aren’t people I’m interested in interacting with during my free time, so as frustrating as it might be, it’s better for me in the long run.

This... isn’t even true, imo. Maybe for some people it is, but for a lot of people it’s just a preference - it’s the exact same as some people liking non-fantasy and some people disliking it. Or some people not wanting to write romance at all and some people loving it. It’s personal taste and nothing more. They aren’t bad writers just because they’d prefer to write one thing over another. Unless I was just misunderstanding what you said

 

[Sara Sidereal]

I really wanna do a 1 on 1 with no romance at all, just cute adventures, but sometimes I feel like 1x1 has a connotation / implication of romance, and there would be no point in making an interest check

 

[Idea]

Honestly if people cant be bothered to research or ask, or even make an attempt at writing non-straight couples, they are either lazy, not very creative, or both, and I’ve decided to just be grateful for their honesty. They’re bad writers, and they aren’t people I’m interested in interacting with during my free time, so as frustrating as it might be, it’s better for me in the long run.

Hum...why exactly would anyone have to be interested in writing non-heterosexual couples? Why is not having an interest in that disrespectful?

Or are you saying we all need to try roleplaying those couples and research into it even if it's not something we're interested in to begin with?

What does the sexual orientation of characters one likes to write about have anything to do with their disposition towards work or creativity? Like I would say you have a point if a person wasn't willing to research at all, but to say that just because they can't be bothered to waste their time researching into a topic that doesn't interest them is a bit too much.

Plus I'd think of all people someone who says

are super off-putting and uncomfortable

would understand someone having some discomforts they didn't really choose to have.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I really wanna do a 1 on 1 with no romance at all, just cute adventures, but sometimes I feel like 1x1 has a connotation / implication of romance, and there would be no point in making an interest check

Just ask for platonic roleplay. There are actually folks who do 1x1 who either solely do platonic roleplays (myself) or who are willing to do a platonic pairing.

I find if ya put Platonic in the title it’s easier to signal to your fellow unicorns that you also don’t want to do romance.

In fact if you have ideas I would love to hear them. Adventure isn’t my normal genre (fantasy nerd and I love animal roleplays) but I’m always willing to hear ideas.

 

[Idea]

unicorns

Unicorns?

Just asking out of curiosity.

 

[Sara Sidereal]

Just ask for platonic roleplay. There are actually folks who do 1x1 who either solely do platonic roleplays (myself) or who are willing to do a platonic pairing.

I find if ya put Platonic in the title it’s easier to signal to your fellow unicorns that you also don’t want to do romance.

In fact if you have ideas I would love to hear them. Adventure isn’t my normal genre (fantasy nerd and I love animal roleplays) but I’m always willing to hear ideas.

Thank you, I'll @ you if I think of something