Open Up!: Values & Money/Power

[White Masquerade]

​

Hello everyone. I like to hear different sides of how people feel about certain things, so over the course of these next months, I'll be posting topics I've thought about myself, yet wanted others' opinions on. It's alright if you don't have much experience with it, any input would be of help.


For the first topic, I'd like to ask about how you view values and money/power. What I really want to get at is this: how far would you go for money, before enough is enough?

1. Would you sell-out a friend?
   
2. Would you give up a big majority of your free time?
   
3. What is your view of money?
   
   
4. Is it just a tool?
   
5. Does having it really lead to quite a bit of happiness?
   
6. Would you cross over other people to get it?
   

[*]What is your view of power?

1. Do you like the sense of respect?
   
2. Enjoy the feeling of authority?
   
3. Want/use it just to help out other people?
   

[*]When have values and money/power clashed for you?


[*]Have you seen the pull occur to other people?

1. Did it turn out good?
   
2. Did it turn out bad?
   

[*]Does having lots of money/power even mean compromising your values?


These are just a few questions to get you started if you choose to answer. Anything else you think, of can be talked in too.


My personal opinion: I believe in money/power. Money is a necessary tool and power...that is difficult. All I can say about power is that someone has to be in charge. I really can't explain why I think that about power, I truly feel there's needs to be something/someone higher, that directs things.


I am more on the Values over Money/Power side, but lately I've been beginning to doubt it. Keeping that sentiment has gotten me burned quite a few times and I wonder where I'd be without it. Is it worth it? Does karma really come back to bite people in the butt or do things just go on living without a care in the world? I have no clue. If you have something to drop in, you are welcome.


All opinions are welcome. If you have something to say, just go right out and say it straight.

 

[Wreck]

1. Would you sell-out a friend?
   

To be completely 110% honest here: yes I would. Of course, I don't consider myself to have any friends in the first place. I'm a very detached person so for me 'selling out' someone for my own personal gain is always an option. It sounds horrible doesn't it? Oh well.

1. Would you give up a big majority of your free time?
   

No. I don't even know what that means really but I value my free time immensley. If something gets in the way of me and me free time, I must really value it.

1. What is your view of money?
   
   
2. Is it just a tool?
   

Money is... one of the most important things to me. After years and years of being broke and living off of ramen and steamed broccoli, I value money as much as value people. But on the contary, I have terrible spending habits and tend to spend money as soon as i get it.

1. Does having it really lead to quite a bit of happiness?
   

I'd say so, yes.

1. Would you cross over other people to get it?
   

Without a shadow of a doubt.


[*]What is your view of power?

1. Do you like the sense of respect?
   

I do, yes.

1. Enjoy the feeling of authority?
   

Oh yes. I don't think I really get any respect in my real life because of the decisions I've made. Having money makes me feel like I can be respected.

1. Want/use it just to help out other people?
   

... I guess. See this is what I've noticed about me. If I'm put in a position of power, I'll do anything to not lose that rank or whatever. To maybe avenge someone I've lost. I'm interesting, don't ask.


[*]When have values and money/power clashed for you?


Selling certain substances that are illegal. That's all I'll say.

1. Have you seen the pull occur to other people?
   

Yes I have. When you've seen what I've seen, people compromise their values to get whatever they can. People are evil.

1. Did it turn out good? No
   
   
2. Does having lots of money/power even mean compromising your values?
   
   
   It can, yes. I've seen it happen to the best people.
   

Did it turn out bad? Immediately.

 

[White Masquerade]

Haha. Wow. When I put this up, I knew it was a hard a delicate topic. Thank you for having the courage to bite =p


Ill edit this with comments later on.

 

[Wreck]

Sure. 'Delicate topics' are usually things I don't have a problem discussing. There are some exceptions, but when I saw that your thread didn't get any hits I was curious.

 

[Mordecai]

1. Would you sell-out a friend?
   I have before, yes. However, I'm pretty quiet these days and have only a select group of friends that I wouldn't want to sell out for anything. Would I do it again under extreme circumstances? I don't actually know. I've never been put into a situation where I felt the need to sell someone out. I sold a few friends out when I was younger because they hurt me or made me feel bad about myself in someway. It was a secondary school "revenge" tactic, I suppose.
   
2. Would you give up a big majority of your free time?
   I don't think so. I'm not sure what I'd be trading my free-time for in this scenario, but my free time is incredibly valuable to me. As I've said, I'm pretty quiet and need that time to decompress and relax. There have been times in my life when I haven't had any free-time because I was working two jobs and going to college full-time, but I was able to recognize the light at the end of the tunnel and push through it.
   
3. What is your view of money?
   
   
4. Is it just a tool?
   I have no idea. To me, it just is what it is.
   
5. Does having it really lead to quite a bit of happiness?
   I think this question has several answers. Growing up, I was a part of a well-to-do family and had everything I could ever dream of. I had the best horses, the best instructors, the best riding tack, all the cool barbies, etc. etc. Was I happy? I like to think so, but not because I had everything. I was ten and doing what I loved with who I loved. When my parents passed, most of the money went to lawyers, paying off debts, and what have you, so, between that and college, I struggled immensely. There were months when I couldn't pay my rent and I worked two jobs just to make ends meet. I don't regret having that time because, while I was struggling immensely, I was happier than I had ever been. I was making it on my own, even though it was incredibly rough. Through it all, I did barn chores to pay for horse riding lessons, which is my true passion. After I graduated with my Bachelor's things got better and I'm living a middle-class life now. I'm well on my way to the top of my sport with the horse that I bought with my own money. Am I happy? Not any more or any less than I was. As long as I do what I love, I'll always find a way to be happy.
   
6. Would you cross over other people to get it?
   I probably would have a few years ago, but I started volunteering every other Sunday at my local community outreach center and I've learned a lot from it. There are people considerably worse off than me and my meager earnings suddenly seemed not so meager to me after all. So, in a roundabout way of answering your question, no, I probably wouldn't cross over other people to get it. (P.S. - I'd make a lousy politician).
   

[*]What is your view of power?

1. Do you like the sense of respect?
   I do like being respected for my achievements and my hard-work.
   
2. Enjoy the feeling of authority?
   Mm, I hemmed and hawed about this question for a long time. I am a leader in research at my laboratory, and I enjoy being able to guide a laboratory full of scientists through a research project. In that regard, I suppose I enjoy being a leader. I understand that authority comes with that role, so, I suppose I enjoy it to some capacity.
   
3. Want/use it just to help out other people?
   I've always been eager to help others, especially in my areas of interest. While I'm not a door-mat nor a crutch, I've always been eager to help when I can.
   

[*]When have values and money/power clashed for you?


You know, I can't actually remember a time. While, yes, I had to work very hard to get through college, I never did anything that compromised my morals as a human being. I'm sure there have been times I've sold out my morals, but never for money or power (not that I can recall). I struggled in secondary school with my confidence and self-worth, so, I know I did things (like stealing gum from a store, for example) to make myself feel "cool" like all the popular kids.


[*]Have you seen the pull occur to other people?


I've seen it a lot in research. I currently work in cancer drug research and I see a lot of doctors who are desperate to find a cure or to have a paper published that they'll smudge their values and publish something with falsified data. Unfortunately, a lot of times, they do this because the government will only continue to give money to research if they have continual and positive outcomes. Often, doctors and researchers are so afraid of losing funding and thus their research, even if its showing promise, because they aren't getting results fast enough. So, they come to an interesting cross-roads whether they want to keep their research by falsifying data or maintain their values and lose their work.

1. Did it turn out good?
   No.
   
2. Did it turn out bad?
   Not necessarily.
   

[*]Does having lots of money/power even mean compromising your values?


You know, I don't have a lot of money, but I have a fair amount of power in my research lab and in horse showing, but I achieved it without feeling like I compromised my values. I'm sure I have to some degree, like, having to lie that I'm sick so I can take a much needed day off of work... but, eh. *shrug*

 

[White Masquerade]

@Wreck


Okay. I promised not to judge, so I won't. I will say that it's very interesting that you'd sell-out a friend in a heartbeat. So even if they're not a friend then; what if they're cordial, well-mannered, and respectful of you? Would you still do that to gain something? Even if they're not considered a friend, but are nice?


Reading up on your answers, it seems a lot of it seems to stem from you past. Would you say your view on things is because of circumstance? Like, if things turned out different from the start, would you have had same answers? I get the feeling maybe your values ended up like that because you were pushed in that direction.


@Mordecai


Thank you for answering! The contrast was shocking! It was like switching between night and day with you and Wreck! I feel like I know you now =P. Your general area of things is where I'm coming from, and I can slowly slowly feel it's being pushed to Wreck's side; not that one is inherently better than the other. That wall you speak of, the grind during that period getting your bachelor's, it must have been brutal. Yet you say you were happy. I find that really interesting.


What I'm taken aback to see, is that the given up to get the degree while working is really paying off now. Not because of that directly, but because in relation to the horses and your overall vibe, your passions/values seem to be the driving force with everything as trailing behind it? Would this be true? Gaining money/power is say, a stepping stone for you, in getting what you really want? That's why the compromising done ended up being harmless?


*As for stealing the gum in secondary school, (> ). Don't sweat it. It's a dumb phase .(' )

 

[Wreck]

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]So even if they're not a friend then; what if they're cordial, well-mannered, and respectful of you? Would you still do that to gain something? Even if they're not considered a friend, but are nice?

[/QUOTE]
I had to think about this. You said if someone was respectful of me? Well shit. I don't know. That's hard. In all honesty I probably wouldn't know how to identify that. I'd probably end up taking that as sarcasm or passive aggressiveness. I also probably wouldn't do it intentionally. I don't know. That's kind of hard to answer.

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]Would you say your view on things is because of circumstance? Like, if things turned out different from the start, would you have had same answers?

[/QUOTE]
100% yeah because of circumstance. If I didn't get involved with some things and if I made different choices in life and if I got dealt a better hand then my responses would've probably been more like yours or whoevers. I think our experiences shape us more than we know. Unfortunately I never really got the oppertunity to find out for sure.

 

[White Masquerade]

I had to think about this. You said if someone was respectful of me? Well shit. I don't know. That's hard. In all honesty I probably wouldn't know how to identify that. I'd probably end up taking that as sarcasm or passive aggressiveness. I also probably wouldn't do it intentionally. I don't know. That's kind of hard to answer.
100% yeah because of circumstance. If I didn't get involved with some things and if I made different choices in life and if I got dealt a better hand then my responses would've probably been more like yours or whoevers. I think our experiences shape us more than we know. Unfortunately I never really got the oppertunity to find out for sure.

As for the experiences shaping us, definitely starting to see that. Reading your answers, it was really clear that was the case =/. What's good, is that it can change again with circumstance. I would say it's wonderful to know it's not locked in. Just like how it may have turned things sour, with the right switches it can things super sweet ( ).


Now your first reply ties in with this, I can only say maybe the struggle has to do with again, your circumstances. I believe you're naturally like Morde, yet for reasons, things have flipped. Since you had to think about it, it's further suggests to me that things aren't quite solidified. Which is good news depending on how you look at it! Thank you! The impact of experience is one I have not looked into.

 

[Mordecai]

Hm, I suppose it is a bit strange. A lot of people find situations of struggle to be unhappy times, but I didn’t let myself get sucked into a hole of depression. I agree with you in so much that my morals have really guided me in my life. I am not religious, but I feel I’m a pretty spiritual person, in so much that I often take time to self reflect. I suppose money/power aren’t very important for me, so long as I have enough of both, respectively, to eat, have a place to sleep, and have my horse. =D

 

[Wreck]

@White Masquerade


I've never thought about it like that before. But it does make sense. Most of the people in my life that were like Mordey either disappeared or died. And that's true, maybe in some way the world has turned me sour without me knowing it. Wow, this conversation is good for me.

 

[Mordecai]

Don't worry, Wreck! I won't disappear or die on you!


Ooo~ what's that shiny thing in the middle of the freeway!?

 

[Wreck]

Don't worry, Wreck! I won't disappear or die on you!
Ooo~ what's that shiny thing in the middle of the freeway!?

Goddammit Mordey.

 

[Makise Kurisu]

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]I like to hear different sides of how people feel about certain things, so over the course of these next months, I'll be posting topics I've thought about myself, yet wanted others' opinions on.

[/QUOTE]
I would be interested in seeing these topics you post. I'll try to follow this board, but if I don't notice when you post one, feel free to shoot me a PM and I will write as much as I can about the topic. I also love hearing other opinions on topics like these.

1. Would you sell-out a friend?
   

I would never sell out a friend, but I don't really have many friends. I have a few close friends, but the rest are just acquaintances. I would never sell out a close friend, but an acquaintance? That's a tough question. I would like to think that I wouldn't, but I honestly don't know. I guess it would depend on what I am gaining.

1. Would you give up a big majority of your free time?
   

For money/power? Yes. I highly value my free time, but I am willing to work long hours to make money. In the job I work, I go into a job not knowing how long it will take. I am a professional mover, and even if the customer books us for two hours, that just means that the minimum pay we get is two hours. A job that books us for two hours can take 12. We have had that happen. We have also been on a two hour job that turned into an 8 hour job, and while working, got called in for two more jobs that we had to do that night after the first job. And our work is lifting heavy boxes and furniture. We have lifted 800 pound pianos and 1500 pound gun safes. There is no way to do this job without being willing to give up a lot of free time.

1. What is your view of money?
   
   
2. Is it just a tool?
   

I do believe that money is a tool. A small piece of cloth is only worth what people will give you for it. It's the same as beaver skins before we had money. It's a trade. Money is just a tool for putting values on different items and creating a medium for trading.

1. 
   
   
   
   Money can buy stuff that makes you happy, but that happiness is only temporary. To really be happy, you have to not care about what the future brings. Don't expect something to happen, because when it doesn't happen, you won't be happy. Caring leads to unhappiness. There are some things that caring can bring great happiness, like loving someone, but when you expect that love to last forever, it hurts when it ends. If you just go with what life brings you, then you won't have anything to hurt you.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   I would have to answer this the same as the first question. It depends on the person, and the gain. I would not cross over a close friend to get any, and I wouldn't cross over an acquaintance to get a small amount.
   
   What is your view of power?
   
   
   
   
   I do like the sense of respect, but I feel that respect is earned, not given. I am against respecting your parents just because they brought you into this world. I try to do everything to have people respect me, but if someone doesn't respect me, I don't really care. Like I stated before, don't expect anything. Value what you get, but don't expect anything.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   I will admit that I do enjoy the feeling of authority, but I dislike authority. I feel everyone should govern themselves. I don't want anyone in charge of me, and though I enjoy the feeling of authority, I generally let people do what they please unless they are causing problems. I feel that cops should be the same way. If I am breaking a law and being reckless about it, then a cop should have full right to stop me. But if I am the only person on the freeway, I see no reason I can't go 20 or 30 over. I am not risking harm of anyone, and therefore should not be in the wrong.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   I don't really think I would use authority to help people out.
   
   When have values and money/power clashed for you?
   

I generally don't let them clash. My values are much more important than money or power, but my values are simple. Everyone deserves the right to life, liberty, and happiness. I will never take that away from someone, and I will never let anyone take that from me.

1. Have you seen the pull occur to other people? No, I have not, therefore, I am unable to answer the next two questions.
   
2. 
   
   
   
3. Does having lots of money/power even mean compromising your values?
   
   
   Having money/power does not, for me, mean compromising my values, as I never let it compromise mine. Though I could see other people compromising their values in exchange for money/power.
   
   
    
   Sorry about the numbers getting mixed up. The coding on this system doesn't really work well with using the numbers for questions.
   

[*]Did it turn out good?

[*]Did it turn out bad?



[*]Want/use it just to help out other people?



[*]Enjoy the feeling of authority?


Do you like the sense of respect?

Would you cross over other people to get it?

Does having it really lead to quite a bit of happiness?