Night Caste Anima

[Persell]

Spending 10 motes allows a Night Caste to become harder to track, as we all know. However, I need a little clarification: does this expenditure actually increase one's anima level?


I can see this going two ways:


a.) It does, obviously. It's literally the effect of your empowered anima. You can't just spend from Personal to stop your anima from showing, because that would necessarily mean that you're not actually getting the effects of your anima. It's like saying you want to get the soak from your armor without actually wearing it. As a result, however, this would also mean that activating this anima power voluntarily would make stealth automatically impossible, an obvious problem considering the Night Caste's typical role (not to mention it makes the power completely worthless: what's the point of making tracking difficult if your opponents automatically succeed?).


b.) It doesn't, obviously. The Night Castes are designed for stealth, and so is their anima power. If activating it would make stealth difficult (impossible, actually), then it just doesn't make sense. As a result, a Night caste can use this anima power by spending 10 personal, while still retaining the ability to hide without his caste mark giving him away.


I think I answered my own question here, but I'd like to know the opinions of everyone else. How do you think the Night Caste anima power should interact with the anima flare that all Solars have to deal with?

 

[Haku1]

Don't the nightcase have the ability to stealth their anima spending?  8)


I'm at work and don't have my books with me...

 

[Ker'ion]

Yup.  For, I think, an extra couple of motes, versus the double it costs from 1e.

 

[Dracogryff]

Actually both right and wrong there. It's one extra mote if it's a charm without the Obvious Keyword, while if it is Obvious, it's still double the mote cost.


I'm not sure how that would interact with the other Anima power, since it specifies it works for Charms but nothing else. It does comment about having an 11+ anima banner kills it...though nobody is able to recognize you. I'd say it does, personally...but I don't know if you'd be able to use their other power to prevent it from adding somehow.

 

[Chaka]

Spending 10 motes allows a Night Caste to become harder to track, as we all know. However, I need a little clarification: does this expenditure actually increase one's anima level?
I can see this going two ways:


a.) It does, obviously. It's literally the effect of your empowered anima. You can't just spend from Personal to stop your anima from showing, because that would necessarily mean that you're not actually getting the effects of your anima. It's like saying you want to get the soak from your armor without actually wearing it. As a result, however, this would also mean that activating this anima power voluntarily would make stealth automatically impossible, an obvious problem considering the Night Caste's typical role (not to mention it makes the power completely worthless: what's the point of making tracking difficult if your opponents automatically succeed?).


b.) It doesn't, obviously. The Night Castes are designed for stealth, and so is their anima power. If activating it would make stealth difficult (impossible, actually), then it just doesn't make sense. As a result, a Night caste can use this anima power by spending 10 personal, while still retaining the ability to hide without his caste mark giving him away.


I think I answered my own question here, but I'd like to know the opinions of everyone else. How do you think the Night Caste anima power should interact with the anima flare that all Solars have to deal with?

Since all Exalts can spend personal essence to deliberately trigger anima effects, your arguments are moot, I'm afraid.

 

[tjcoonrod]

my guess is most likely they want you to spend it from your personal. I think technically by the rules, you wouldn't be able to mute your anima, but that'd be something I'd allow the player to do. 20motes is pretty expensive however. Aren't there either survival or stealth solar charms that negate tracking attempts (well, mundane tracking anyways) that could be as effective and cheaper than using that anima ability?

 

[Vanman]

Actually, where does it say spending motes to activate an anima effect have to come from Peripheral Essence? I don't think it does. It makes the most sense, to be sure, but it doesn't actually say it has to be Peripheral Essence. All anima effects come into play when you spend 11+ motes peripherally, but I don't think that holds true if you consciously activate the anima effect. In this case, I think it perfectly acceptable to spend Personal Essence to activate the Night Caste effect. I would look at it as the Night using the Personal Essence to "secretly" activate her anima so she can cloak herself.


But that's just me.

 

[tjcoonrod]

Actually, where does it say spending motes to activate an anima effect have to come from Peripheral Essence?

Hi Vanman, long time listener first time caller.


The OP was more asking that if the night caste spent peripheral essence to flare her anima for stealth abilities, it would be contradictory. You would spend peripheral essence, negating stealth, to use a stealth anima ability?


Nobody said you couldn't spend personal to activate your anima. More like, you would be required to spend it from personal to avoid flaring your anima.

 

[Vanman]

Hey TJ,


Finally get your new computer?


;-)


I know what the poster was asking, but he phrased it in such a way as giving a one or the other. Since this is an anima effect we're talking about, he gave two options - one saying he can use Personal Essence, one saying he can't. My point is that nowhere does it say you can't use Personal Essence to power your anima effect. The OP made is sound like it was one or the other. It can be both, IMO. I was just pointing this out.....

 

[tjcoonrod]

I wish..... it eludes me, financially, but bless the library is all I can say.

 

[Coyotekin]

The way I read it is that no matter what you do with you peripheral motes, to cloak this or that or the other thing, if you spend at least 11 motes or more your anima lights up and there is nothing you can do to conceal it at that point.


Mind you, spending Personal motes never lights up your anima, unless you do it intentionally, or it is used in Sorcery.


So a Night Caste that felt a need to mask everything would have to plan accordingly. The 10 motes spent to use the Anima effect to "mute" everything would best come from Personal, IMHO, while the motes for the Charms and such would come from Peripheral, assuming you are not spending lots of motes. And then "spice it up" with your Personal motes for the subdued aspect.

 

[The Matt]

I pick b from the original post.


I think its best to remember that the night are in many ways odd men out. Sun worshippers attuned to the night.


What we can say for certain is that if they spend the motes out of peripheral and apply no other effect than they have their stealthy anima ability up and also suffer the stealth penalties associated with having a 10 mote anima banner. If they spend one more mote of peripheral that is applied to their anima banner the stealth power collapses.


Unlike everyone else their anima power is not the same as their anima banner and is not activated by their anima banner. In defense of this I point out that pg 98 says that when they reach the 11+ motes level they are just as obvious as anyone else but their features are concealed; their alternate anima ability, a compromise of sorts between their conflicting aspects.


I allow Night's to treat their anima ability as a non-obvious charm for purposes of muting it (that is, for 10 + 1 peripheral motes) and I think an argument could be made that they are meant to be allowed that, but that is probably mixing fluff and crunch. On the other hand they thematically should be able to do this IMO, I also allow them to do the same for attuning to artifacts or sorcery (sorcery is officially exempted, I know) though these are at obvious charm cost. (x2 peripheral)

 

[Persell]

Peripheral expenditures cause involuntary anima flare, which is only crudely controlled by the Exalt in question.  Deliberate triggers can come from either pool, as it's a willful usage and is completely controlled.

 

[Coyotekin]

Agreed.

 

[Braydz]

Tangential but something I've been kicking around:


Does anyone have a problem with the Night Caste anima ability as written?


The anima abilities of the other castes got leveled out and beefier, I think, if just because they go off automatically at 11+ Peripheral. If you're a Night Caste spending that much Peripheral, all you get is indescribable. Also, the Stealth bonus of their primary ability is only 1/2 Essence which really isn't much for a group of uber-sneaks like Hidden Suns are supposed to be.


My fixes:


-Add (Essence) to the difficulty of all rolls to perceive or track the Night Caste.


-At 11+ motes of Peripheral essence expenditure, aside from blurring their features so as to make them unidentifiable, Night Caste Solars get +1/2 (Ess.) to their Dodge DV due to the dark, hazy appearance of their anima banner. This is also how the "Sense Dampening" power works at levels of Peripheral expenditure where stealth is impossible. (Taking notes from Changing-Moon and No-Moon Lunars.)

 

[tjcoonrod]

Tangential but something I've been kicking around:
Does anyone have a problem with the Night Caste anima ability as written?


The anima abilities of the other castes got leveled out and beefier, I think, if just because they go off automatically at 11+ Peripheral. If you're a Night Caste spending that much Peripheral, all you get is indescribable. Also, the Stealth bonus of their primary ability is only 1/2 Essence which really isn't much for a group of uber-sneaks like Hidden Suns are supposed to be.


My fixes:


-Add (Essence) to the difficulty of all rolls to perceive or track the Night Caste.


-At 11+ motes of Peripheral essence expenditure, aside from blurring their features so as to make them unidentifiable, Night Caste Solars get +1/2 (Ess.) to their Dodge DV due to the dark, hazy appearance of their anima banner. This is also how the "Sense Dampening" power works at levels of Peripheral expenditure where stealth is impossible. (Taking notes from Changing-Moon and No-Moon Lunars.)

Good idea, I like it at least. Curious to see what others here on the ECR think.

 

[Vanman]

Personally, I think that's way too powerful. The Nights get to mute their anima banner, which is the main purpose of the anima ability, IMO. Adding that much to the stealth ability, plus giving them bonuses to their DVs, makes it too powerful. I mean, that's what stealth charms are for, and they can use most of them without adding to their anima ability. And at the +11 level, it's not like they are completely enshrouded in shadow. They're just as obvious as any other character, but it's just their features that are obscured.


Besides, the point for the Night caste is to use their anima ability to avoid going iconic.


Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Braydz]

Too much, ok cool.


How about the DV bonus only applying to Ranged attacks? That's how I originally had it written.


The point of one half of the ability is that your banner never flares anyway, true enough. But what about this:


A Dawn Caste uses a combo fueled with Peripheral and gets scary to mortals/harder to hit besides.


A Zenith Caste uses a combo fueled with Peripheral and gets scary to Dark Things/harder to hit besides.


A Twilight Caste casts a spell fueled with Peripheral and gets harder to hurt besides.


A Night Caste uses a combo fueled with Peripheral and either uses more essence than anyone else so that no-one notices (aside from the fact that they're using a combo), or doesn't spend extra and no one can tell who she is now (not preventing people from remembering what she looked like before she went all glowy), and... that's about it.


Seems a bit un-even to me.


Also, yeah there are Stealth charms that're great compared to the Caste ability, but there are also charms that make you scary (mimicking the Dawn), make you hurt Dark Things (mimicking the Zenith), and eat damage (mimicking the Twilight), and 1/2 Essence just isn't worth the 10 motes you pay for it.


I know that I'm glossing over the Eclipses, and frankly I'm just not sure what to do about them; arguably they're the most versatile, being able to learn charms from other Exalts so don't need to get uber when totemic, but I dunno.

 

[Vanman]

I hear what you're saying, I just don't happen to agree with it. Yes, the Dawn, Zenith and Twilight Castes' anima abilities are very useful in combat at the totemic level. But, in essence, (with the exception of the Twilight ability, perhaps, but that's another discussion) they are all in line with what those Castes are supposed to do. That's not what the Nights are supposed to do. They're the sneakers, the skulkers, and they are positioned to do that very well with their anima ability. Theirs is not a combat ability like the others. They are geared toward getting in someplace without being seen and, to that end, they do that very well. Plus, they can use their charms in places where the other Castes can't, even if those charms are Obvious. In terms of throwing a combo where the character goes iconic, yes, they lack when compared to the Dawn, Zenith and Twilight. But all of those Castes lack when trying to be sneaky and stealthy.


Don't get me wrong. If you want to do this, go ahead. And yes, making the DV good only against range does make it somewhat better. But I don't think the Night anima needs to be improved. That's just me, though.....

 

[Braydz]

I appreciate that you appreciate that I'm gonna play the game I damn well please, but I was looking for feedback on this.


Night Caste are supposed to be the master sneaks, as you say, but the power as written just makes them better sneaks (and at a heavy cost). So maybe they don't need the DV boost, it's not in keeping with their theme, but 3 out of the other 4 castes have an "Action!" anima ability, and the one that doesn't has "cross me and you're screwed."


What if the stealth bonus applied also to remembering the Night caste when their anima says that stealth is impossible, not just noticing their features, activating automatically at the 11+ level? No DV bonus.


"Was he tall or short?"


"Umm... yes."


"Well which was it? How about hair color?"


"Well, no."


"He was bald?"


"Maybe. I mean I suppose he could've been. I'm just sure that I didn't mug myself, so someone else must've, right?"

 

[Persell]

Too powerful.  There are other Charms for that.

 

[Vanman]

Here's the thing. The 3 out of the 4 "Action" animas, as you call them, are, essentially, all those animas can do. Yes, the Zenith can send souls to Heaven so they don't awaken as walking dead, but they don't have to spend 10 motes to do that. Their action animas, as you say, are pretty much all they can do with their animas. The Night Caste can do other stuff. Yes, they are at a disadvantage when they get to the totemic level, but that's counterbalanced by the other effects of their anima. The other problem with the fix you suggested is it kind of steps on the Sidereal toes. Forgetting people in totality is the purview of the Siddies.


I'm trying to come up with something to give you feedback, but it's difficult for me because I don't think the anima power is broken. Perhaps something along the lines that the people who see the Night don't realize they're Anathema? That the "victims" think there was a power display, but that display was done by either a god, DB or god-blood? Or, at least a chance. Maybe some sort of roll, Integrity perhaps. If they make it, they are affected by the anima as written in the book. If they fail, they think the character was some other type of Essence user. A bit complicated, perhaps, but, again, I don't think their anima power is broken so it's the best I could come up with.....

 

[Persell]

I agree with Van. Your 'fix' is well written but unneeded. In the games I've played the most consistently useful of the anima powers have been the Eclipse and Night caste powers. The other three are useful in combat, but the other two have far wider applications.

 

[Jukashi]

On this rough topic, what would you, plural, think of Charms that enhance or upgrade the anima power? Let's say for example we rip off Eva for a Dawn Caste upgrade, giving them a high-essence Charm which turns their anima into an AT field, that is, increasing the effect to the level where even the small gods of weapons are too afraid to go near them, effectively adding the Twilight anima effect to their own.


They'd be high-essence Charms, of course, but is it a good idea in general?

 

[Vanman]

I'm not sure. That would take away some of the uniqueness of each Caste if, even at higher levels, other Castes could get those same abilities. I like the idea of upgrading the anima power - I like it very much - but not at the expense of overstepping other anima powers.....