New Caste Anima effects...

[Heaven's Thunder Hammer]

I was thinking about some of the remarks I've read about the anima abilities basically being little better than charms... And that got me thinking.


From how the book describes things, each caste excels at certain things more than others. Their anima powers may enhance this a bit further. However, for instance, if a Zenith with some high craft abilities, intelligence and a proper workshop goes to build something and has X number of craft charms... The Twilight with the same scores and charms is acutally no better than the Zenith. This scenerio can be repeated for another Caste.


What I was thinking to make it a little more obvious that each Caste is significantly better than the other Castes at what they do, is to give a number of automatic successes to any roll involving Caste abilities.  The number could be = to Perm Essence or maybe Perm Essence/2. Perhaps even giving a number of extra dice equal to Essence to any roll would be enough??


I think it would go along way to distinguishing the castes from each other. *However,* I am wondering how potentially unbalancing this could be to a game. Any thoughts?

 

[Flagg]

You could work a mechanic like Virtues, where they get +(Essence) to a roll (Essence) times per story.


-S

 

[Andrew02]

It might be nice if it was in addition to the usual Ability + Attribute if you went for added dice. Automatic Successes is more appealing.


Doesn't seem to me like Dawns or Eclipses would benefit too too much. Dawns because it seems like it is just a little redundant and impractical to go for all five combat abilities, and Eclipses because their abilities are a little more circumscribed (in the sense that, say, a game in the West is probably not going to see much Bureaucracy and Ride use) . . . whereas, say, a Zenith could get extreme mileage out of the boost to Survival and Presence.


I don't think it would go very far to distinguishing the castes from each other in a meaningful fashion. It would provide incentive to focus more on the caste skills, perhaps, and thus reinforce caste stereotypes . . . but that doesn't seem like a worthwhile goal to me.


And it does not seem that the five caste abilities are enough to always get the caste job done (thus the five favoured, I assume. Also, I don't think your proposed bonus applies to that, with good reason). I mean, Dawn comes closest, I suppose, but they're war leaders (whether it's general at the head of a sprawling golden legion or sergeant of a small guerrila unit) in addition to the whole, "der, i m teh guud fytur!11" schtick.


I don't really think something like this best serves the function of differentiating Castes, or of replacing inadequate Caste anima abilities. Zenith and Eclipse seem to qork quite well, while Dawn is better done through charms, Night's is inordinately expensive to mask anima displays, and Twilight just seems misplaced.

 

[greasy golem gunk]

speaking of anima abilities...


Ever feel tempted to take a Solar Zenieth into a butcher shop, and sending all the meat into the afterlife in a peaceful manner?  Just dump motes in a reflexive non-charm manner, and use left overs to drop a Presence charm or 2 to convince the butcher to take up Vegetarism?


The idea had me laughing at game tonight.


-g3

 

[Persell]

I think of theme first, then mechanics. Usually. So, in addition to agreeing with the other points made, I would suggest that you use the mechanical effects to enhance the way the caste is portrayed. So maybe Twilights get bonuses when they take time to think deeply about something (or not; you can easily imagine a Twilight who snaps brilliant replys off in a second). Dawns get abilities when fighting or leading troops. Zeniths get bonuses whenever they aim to inspire. Or whatever suits your group's take on the castes.


Thinking about it more deeply, I'd tie the bonuses to the Exalt's purpose in the celestial scheme. So Dawns get bonuses when fighting and generalling, Zeniths when inspiring righteousness and worship, Twilights whenever they're expanding the boundaries of enlightenment, Night whenever they're... I dunno, and Eclipses whenever they're tying society together. Just as a rough outline.

 

[StarHawk]

It sounds like it would be better as a merit. Because as Andrew pointed out, it could be a pretty raw deal for the Dawn and Eclipse. I have yet to see an eclipse put propper use to all of their caste abilities, most only have one or three. But as a merit, perhaps giving 1 auto success per 2pt merit, sounds okay. For 2pts, you get an auto success on caste abilities. 4pts = 2 and a wopping 6pt = 3.


sounds okay to me otherwise. Sounds particuarlly awesome for Night and Zenith. Which kinda plays up on that whole "unbalancing" factor.

 

[Jakk Bey]

If you give the Dawn Caste a War or Tactics Ability, it begins to be less of a raw deal than you might think. Giving the Eclipse Automatic Succeses in Socialize only cements them as the Face men of a Circle, and Bureaucracy when dealing with agents of the Heavens...that's what they're there for.


I'm warming to the idea. Maybe not for Automatic successes, but certainly extra die for actions, at a cost of Essence to channel their Caste purpose.  


Perhaps getting to add their Essence in die to their Caste Abilities, at a cost of their Permanent Essence--which would for all but the Night Caste get an Anima glow and show their Exaltedness--might be in order.

 

[psychoph]

It seems to me that the rules already do something similar to this idea, if much of a lesser fashion, by making the favored abilities cheaper to buy with experience as well as charms.  


Yes you can have different castes speced the exact same, but when it comes to bps and exps you are going to have the maxed out Dawn caste melee expert with more exps than the Eclipse maxed out melee person.


They way my game has progressed so far players try to find that nitche for themselves to be happy and more involved in the game, so rather than changing rules I would say you try to focus characters into situatons where they all shine, and use the caste anima abilities that exsit to their advantage.  I have already had a compbat where the Dawn Anima ability showed my players that dawns are better at fighting, and the eclipse class has used her ability to bind people in several situation.  I am working on the other three situations currently.

 

[ashenphoenix]

If their anima ability is not limited by their dice-adder limit, then the die-adding really would work.


It would mean that the specialised caste can go far beyond their bretheren in potential successes, and thus attempt far more ambitious work.

 

[Persell]

Oops, I was far from clear. My suggestion was meant to deal with the fact that Dawn only get to use ~3 of their abilities while Zenith get to use all 5 regularly. I meant to do this by making the dice bonuses add to any Ability used during the performance of their caste purpose. So if a Dawn channelling her anima tries to rally her troops with Presence, she gets some bonus dice. Or if she's trying to work out wtf that enemy war engine is, the Lore roll gets bonusses. etc.


I agree not capping it with normal Att+Ab pool.

 

[ashenphoenix]

Perhaps getting to add their Essence in die to their Caste Abilities' date=' at a cost of their Permanent Essence--which would for all but the Night Caste get an Anima glow and show their Exaltedness--might be in order.[/quote']
I'm just imagining a tent full of Dawn generals trying to decide on how to direct an army.


"Shit guys, would you mind turning off the Tactics for a sec, I think I'm getting a migraine."


Night Caste scout-general in the same tent - "The Day-star...it burrrnssss."

 

[Heaven's Thunder Hammer]

I think, for my game, I'm going to add Permanent Essence score as extra dice rolled for all Caste abilities... And have it not count as a limit towards the die adder limit. This would enhance the Caste's to make their differences more pronounced, something that I like.


As far as Dawns go, they're supposed to be Great Generals, and the Zenith are supposed to be Great Leaders. I think it works out in the end. If my players are really unhappy with it, (which I'm pretty sure they won't be) I can always try something else.

 

[memesis]

Not really an anima power per se, but consider the mechanics as an alternate approach to powering up the anima ability.


Exemplar of the Celestial Mandate (10-point Merit, Celestial Exalted only)


The Solars, Lunars, and Sidereals are all Chosen of their respective patron gods, and this shows itself most clearly in their deeds.  But while the character's Celestial peers are unique and varied, and often as human (or moreso) than their mortal followers and allies, the character himself draw extra power from acting as the model of her Caste.  Her commitment to her particular role as an Exalt gives her a bonus die on all rolls involving one of her Caste abilities.  This bonus die is considered a specialty die for all purposes, although it applies in all situations.  In addition, whenever the character channels Willpower for an automatic success in any action that directly ties to both her Caste and her Concept, she instead receives a number of automatic successes equal to her permanent Essence - 1.  The Storyteller should closely monitor proposed actions for appropriateness.


For example, Grahf is a Dawn Caste Solar, whose Concept is "Master of archers".  His Essence is 4.  When firing an arrow, in combat or on a target range, he may spend a point of Willpower to receive three automatic successes on the attack roll.


His friend Gurahl, also a Dawn Caste Solar whose Concept is "Mercenary general", and whose Essence is 3, receives two automatic successes when spending Willpower on Performance or Presence rolls to exhort his troops, or when making combat rolls in the Mail & Steel system where he is leading his men, or in any other situation that directly relates to his Concept.  He does not receive bonuses to Socialize rolls, for example, even when negotiating for a favorable contract from an employer, because such negotiations are not a core part of his Caste.

 

[psychoph]

I would still say unless you do something similar for all the other types of Exalted in your game, though to a lesser degree, you are going to get a lot of unbalancing.  


My Exalted all started with Permanent Essence of 3, and I have heard talk of st's allowing 4 as a starting essence.  Under your rules that is 4 extra dice per roll for I am guessing 10 motes of essence, this is above and beyond the cap.  


Assuming maxed out trait and attribute for a character you are potentially giving them 24 dice to roll.  If you split actions, that is what 12 actions a player could take as opposed to 10 actions.  It is either that or if the rules are the 4 dice add on to each roll you get 10 actions with 4 extra dice.


If you move up to a maxed out essence character you got a potential of what 50 dice, 10 for attribute, 10 for ability doubled plus 10 for essence.  As compared to 40.  That adds what an extra 5 actions on or an extra 10 dice per roll?


In combat your Dawn caste character are going to have a very good advantage over a DB as well as Abyssal unless you are giving them some thing similar.  I.E. Abyssal gain the same ability and Db's get like 1/3rd of their permanent essence, Lunars and Sidereals get 1/2 their permanent essence.  Not sure about Fair Folk, Auchotrians, or Dragon Kings.

 

[Persell]

I would still say unless you do something similar for all the other types of Exalted in your game, though to a lesser degree, you are going to get a lot of unbalancing.

True. We might accidentally make Solars the most powerful of all the Exalt types. I don't have any objection to that, for obvious reasons. Exalt types are already unbalanced. Balance is entirely up to gaming groups.

If you move up to a maxed out essence character you got a potential of what 50 dice, 10 for attribute, 10 for ability doubled plus 10 for essence.  As compared to 40.  That adds what an extra 5 actions on or an extra 10 dice per roll?

You're right. That sounds awesome! Essence 10 Solars TOTALLY FUCKN OWN.

In combat your Dawn caste character are going to have a very good advantage over a DB

That's what Dawn are for. O/c if your ST wants, they can make a character more powerful than anything a player has.

as well as Abyssal unless you are giving them some thing similar.  I.E. Abyssal gain the same ability

True. Most arguments about suckiness of Solar anima powers apply equally well to their identical Abyssal counterparts.


The bonuses do seem a bit on the high side. The easiest solution to this problem is to not choose +Essence, scene long, for 10 motes. I'd slow down the rate of increase a bit by making it +E/2, and maybe saying it's one mote per turn.