Idea
The Pun Tyrant
Hmm... alright, I think I get the point.
Other Minimum post lengths
- Thread starter Duskstalker
- Start date
Killigrew
Magnificent Humanicorn
no stahp
don't insult the illiad
pls stahp
you don't know what you're doing aaaaa
it was so far from short and barebones what are you saying what version did you read
I also feel like I have to add... Hunter, I've appreciated a lot of points you made, but at the point of this post, I think you've definitely taken things too personally. Maybe your tone would be more discernable in a live chat room, but at the moment you seem... to put it gently, unkind. It would honestly really get under my skin if you were addressing me rather than Idea right now, and I really wouldn't want to post in this thread anymore if I read a post like that, so, uh, maybe chill.
Uncultured
Dreamer/Cynic
Yo thats a good point. I read like a 100-150 page Illiad in HS like 6 years ago, maybe junior year. It could definately be that it was an abridged version.
Yeah I'm being disrespectful, ik that. Not gonna make excuses, sorry if its making others uncomfortable. It's frustration from having my arguments sandbagged or misconstrued, followed by subtle shots at me. I lack subtlety when I get heated.
Killigrew
Magnificent Humanicorn
That is definitely the abridged version, I do assure you. If you picked up a legit version, you could use it to reach the high spots in your kitchen shelves; it is thick. And very detailed, full of metaphor and description. So thick, in fact, that my college professor only had us read selections from our text rather than the whole thing; that would have required a class in and of itself.
Thanks for the apology btw, goes a long way.
hosaki
One Thousand Club
But I thought AtlannianSpy advocated an alternative, where players could actively exercise their common sense. In my experience, most GMs (even ones that employ min post length requirements) don't have anything against private collab posts and these could give action scenes the fast pacing that players and GMs like you desire, while still giving players and GMs like Idea the kind of post they want to read.
I might be making assumptions, but I think I can understand some of the reasons why players might be so averse to reading short posts (and then having to respond to short posts). Someone else said this in a different thread, but some players don't take easily to firing out quick short posts, either because of personal schedule reasons or writing preferences. So if they can't post quickly, interactions made up entirely of short posts can feel like they drag on forever. Personally, I dislike the uncertainty that comes with short dialogue posts. When you're writing by yourself, you can plot out the meaning and purpose behind dialogue scenes, but with two or more players, the purpose beyond mere character interaction for its own sake may become muddled. I find that longer posts give the context necessary for me to understand the potential significance of character interactions and potential directions for development. While from a writing standpoint, the resulting dialogue scene might be badly paced and awkwardly patched together, the player gains better insight into what their fellow writers want from the story without directly communicating OOC every time. Hence, why short posts might feel unfulfilling to read for those players, or even impossible to respond to: these players may feel that they don't have the resources to properly proceed in a way that results in something meaningful. Minimum post length requirements isn't a matter of elitism then, but one of GM/player personality and indirect communication in collaborative writing.
Those are just my thoughts on the issue. This thread also made me take a good look at the content I've been putting out.
AtlannianSpy
Alarmed and Strangerous
I don't think a minimum post length necessitates that at all, because you can just say your two sentences and then move on to something else within the same post, either yourself or by handing off to someone else as part of a collaborative post.
And that two sentence moment would, I feel, normally work better as part of a larger post because standing alone they just jut up against other people's posts. It's very hard to convey the meaning of deliberate sparseness, what hasn't been written, because there's always going to be twelve or however many other voices on the page, with different stylistic goals if they even have a deliberate style at all.
This is a limitation of the medium I came up against when I first started roleplaying, I came from a fiction writing background to the hobby and had had "less is more" or variations drilled into me by a succession of teachers. So I was put off by the idea of minimum post lengths initially. However I came to realize I didn't have the precise control over my reader I'd enjoyed as a solo writer simply as a result of how RPing works, each post kind of has to stand on its own in terms of pacing and tone because the subtleties established in a previous post might clash with those established in someone's else post that came right after.
If you want to employ any really fancy writing tricks you have to take time and words to establish control over the narrative otherwise they won't come through to the reader. That's been my experience anyway! Maybe I just have a selfish RPing style where I want a big stage for my writing then to get out of the way and let other players have an equally big stage.
Uncultured
Dreamer/Cynic
I agree that collaborative posting is the ideal way to deal with dialogue and back and forth action, I have zero complaints with that and wish it were more common.
The thing is that when you don't collaborate, and a back and forth dialogue takes place, it ends up being a monologue session because most writers that need to make the paragraph quota end up adding a lot of dialogue, and whether or not you agree with my overall point, two characters talking to each other in monologue is ridiculous.
There are times where a writer can dig up enough legitimate content to make a long post in a back and forth a sensible thing. However there are an equal number of times where writing a lengthy post is an exercise in page filling. Can't stress this enough, I only mean this during back and forth posts designed to convay a conversation or action sequence.
My point at the end of the day is to trust your writers to decide when it's prudent to write long and when to write short. If you can't trust them to write according to context, they Shouldn't be in your highbrow, detailed RP. If anything, have people do collaborative posting, or just maintain an eye on the RP and crack down on posts that lack the required detail relative to the context of the scene.
Additionally, people that write long should not feel uncomfortable replying to those who write short, so long as the shorthand writer is providing enough content to reply to and is not compromising the RP in any way. If you get mad when someone replies to your 8 paragraphs with their three, get out of your feelings. If the 3 paragraphs fully responded to your 8 paragraphs, then you have no right to complain.
Also, "Detailed RP" needs to be defined. "Lots of words" should not be the qualifier. When we say detailed, do we not mean the following
1. In depth characters
2. Complex lore
3. A serious, non casual story
4. Nuanced story telling
5. Strong rules within the world
6. Strong continuity of story & logic, minimal plot holes.
7. Plot development, idk I'm reaching for stuff now lol.
Those ideals can be spit on by a long poster and embraced/enhanced by a short poster.
Also, disclaimer, by "short poster" I do not mean a guy who writes a post like
-
Hunter walked up to
AtlannianSpy
."What's up", said Hunter as he sat across from his fellow RPer
-
I mean someone who will write two or three paragraphs in a well written, concise style, that doesn't break any of the aforemntioned ideals. In no way do I support one liners.
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hosaki
One Thousand Club
Could you give me an example of what you would consider two characters talking to each other in monologue vs. a good RP dialogue scene? I'm having some trouble understanding what you mean by this. Do you mean players who give a dialogue prompt and then continue on with more action/dialogue in the same post, essentially only allowing the other player to fill in responses in their post?
Most people I've RPed with write more than two to three paragraphs on average, despite a lack of minimum post length requirements. (At least that's what I'm getting from current samples; I don't really notice these things.) So I don't have any valid observations to make about min. post length requirements forcing players to pad. I also haven't noticed any glaring problems with the RPs I'm in, but maybe we're approaching this question from vastly different perspectives. I tend to go for character-driven/drama/intrigue RPs, so maybe that factor lends to heavy character introspection. In books with third-person limited or first-person POV, an event happens and the character being focused on will think and respond. For group RPs, there isn't exactly a focus character. Every RPer perceives their player character as the "main character" in their personal narrative, so each writer will go into the details that their character notices and the things that matter to them. If you multiply that by 4 or 5, you get slow-moving, somewhat repetitive posts that might seem like "padding", and doesn't read particularly well as a whole. Is that what you mean to critique when you talk about long posts that are low in quality?
Killigrew
Magnificent Humanicorn
Now I'd say this analysis is solid. You've gone deep into your character and want to reveal them through action and voice. That characterization sets a tone, it prepares the reader for what the character will do. It also helps you come to know your character better; since you establish a common thread of being, it's easier to carry them into other situations. Logic and emotion weave together there, and that's a lot of fun to wield.
These are all good and relevant things, and usually if not always necessary in the first post. Without strong characterization in the first post, it's difficult to carry on writing your character since they haven't a good foundation to fall back on.
Fair points; I wouldn't want that post to represent me or my views on writing either.
To sum, we are in agreement; contextually it was necessary to provide detail and characterization in that first post, and the neglect thereof made for a poor experience, resulting in losing heart to carry on writing in the roleplay. I'd feel the same way, except the child in me might find it endearing at the same time... that clumsy innocence in writing out an awkwardly unseemly post sometimes wins me over... or at least earns my mirth.
As for this, I know the feeling well. My first real roleplay experience was like that; overall, I'd say the RP was hilariously bad, but because I had two decent writers alongside me and we'd formed a sweet familial relationship between our three characters, it was well worth all the cringe. Even now I look back with fondness at that time, at our careful and heartfelt posts and the awkward replies sent our way. (Nobody there liked us tho, RIP.)
Maybe that first experience shows a difference in our goals; I found that I really wanted that kind of spontaneous but sweet storytelling (the kind that surprises you) to happen again. It seemed so magical. But maybe for you, you're satisfied so long as you put in enough effort to say you've reached new heights in writing skill. (maybe? correct me if i'm wrong) That definitely doesn't satisfy me, doesn't seem worth all the effort. If I tried to just write my best and didn't find any magical interaction moments, I'd probably feel something similar to what you felt after that chat RP: even though I thought my writing showed promise, it just amounted to no magic! Nobody was inspired by it, y'know? Or at least, that's how it felt.
I'd say that this time, you did go a little overboard with the internal monologue. There's far less action, fluff that is not so much stylistic but rather just her different considerations of things. It's speculation, so it doesn't really commit the character to any characterization. I'd suggest being brief on speculation and focus on the conclusions thereof, if there are any, and thinking of different ways to describe action.
Almost all my RPs at one point were paced like this example. I wouldn't say they set a vivid scene; rather, both were missing information from the other. Rather than being able to play off each others' characters, the long post results in having to put after-the-fact commentary, thoughts, considerations, but out of politeness you don't change the direction of the conversation. The characters lose a lot of characterization this way, I'd say. Having done this and done some 1x1 with a friend RPer, I'd say the loose regulations resulted in more characterization rather than less, since my character had more agency to be a character.
Yeah, I agree. I'd rather have the second option than the first. I would definitely soon tire of RPing in general if they were all like the first option, but I could bear it if everyone posted like the second option.
But, say, what if RPers like you and that Atlas guy decided to loosen up? To try new things, and play around a bit with RPing? If you and Atlas decided you didn't mind the occasional back-and-forth, but didn't lower your standards (just your post length), don't you think that would stimulate your creativity all the more? That's kind of what I'd like. Flexible RPers that have high standards in style and communication, but don't think a short post is necessarily a bad idea. Letting loose is nice, I think. No need to be so formal, I guess.
I agreed with your #1 reason except perhaps this part. I'm looking not just to have an audience and be an audience, but I want something out of that, if that makes sense. When I have an audience, I want to inspire them, and when I am their audience, I want to be inspired. My goal isn't the audience bit for the sake of it.
If I'm understanding you correctly, I agree. If all posts were as rigid about being minimalistic as detailed RPers are about being flowery, it would lose all flavor. A short post has to fit the scenario. It does not suit well during the setting stage, the characterization stage, nor an explanation stage. Sometimes it doesn't even suit an interaction stage well, because emotions and memories can be stirred up in a character that must be explained if the full reaction is to be appreciated and all avenues of inspiration are to be conveyed.
I only mean to say, do not throw away the opportunity to be less rigid with your writing. You may find it empowers your style far more than your current way of doing things, but I'll leave my persuasion at that, as RPing is all for fun anyway, so technically anything goes, even rigidity.
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QuirkyAngel
White Masquerade's Blue Oni
Wow, by the time I was ready to sit down and respond to some of the posts there were already so many...pretty sure I forgot some of the things I wanted to say, but oh well =P
I see. I applaud your efforts then. For they come from a noble cause. I can't say I'm as committed to cutting down on excessive detail as you are, but I get what you are saying. Whether a post is short or long, good or bad, I think they're all worth reading. Why? Because I assume the rper joined the rp with the same initial intentions as I. To have fun and interact with other characters. I'm a slow, detailed rper though and that's not going to change. If the other player understands that and is willing to read(I mean seriously read) through my posts and respond to it, then I don't care what type of writing style the other rper uses or their skill level.
I'm not here to judge an rper on their writing.
That said, even though I don't use fancy vocabulary, even though I don't practice purple prose, I call myself an detailed rper. Why? Because I like reading content more than I care about pacing. I want to know how the player's character thinks IC. I want reactions. Emotions. I'm the type of person that feeds off the ideas of others and builds upon them. So the more ideas players give me, the more content players add to the rp (whether it's their character's content or story content), the more hyped I am about continuing. It's what gets me hooked. Shorter posts can certainly be good in their own right. However, to pull off Axton's characterization for example, while keeping posts short, requires considerable skill. Not many rpers can do that. Heck, not many writers can do that. So if I do see short posts that can pull that off then I would be mucho impressed.
Not to say that short posts can't do that. I do enjoy them every once in a while. They are direct, to the point, and do get things moving again. It's not like I can't respond to them either. I'll treat all rpers the same whether they write good, bad, short, or long, but if I have more to say about the long poster's post, it's not because I favor them more, but rather because they give me more to talk about and respond to. I can't read the short poster's mind. And unless we chat ooc, I can't really gauge what type of character they are trying to create or their level of interest in the rp either.
Look at minimum post length one way and it's causing superfluous writing. Look at it another way and it's encouraging players to think of ideas for the rp and their character by forcing them to write more than they're used to. Are they "good" ideas? Are they simply pushing in words to satisfy a requirement and filling space? Who knows? Many of the people here are still high schoolers. But at least they're thinking and trying. And the more they do, the more they'll improve as writers. Maybe it's just me, but the more I write for a character, the more I delve into their psyche, the more I end up loving the characters I create. More than any story, or any particular interaction with any other character, that's what motivates me to keep going in an rp.
My love for my characters.
Uncultured
Since you've indirectly attacked one of my replies to your responses, let me clarify things a bit...
I was not trying to argue your post.
If you'll notice, I only quoted only one line of your post. That's the one where you asked how it was fair that an 8-sentence awesome post gets critiqued while a 6-paragraph sh*t post doesn't. I answered it as if I were a fair gm. Fairness ignores favoritism, so even if the gm did like the 8 sentence post more than the 6-paragraph one, they would still tell the player that they need a couple more sentences in their post. That's what fair means.
I had no intention of debating with you about the usefulness/uselessness of said rules since our thoughts are bound to be vastly different due to our different preferences...and you've made it quite clear that nothing anyone said will change your mind in any manner. That's just as well. I'm fairly sure nothing said in this forum will change what I like and don't like either. I'm not much of an action rper. Back and forth posts of players punching each other doesn't appeal to me. Jet-fire posts tire me out. Short interactions grows stale after a while. I'm not trying to put down shorter posts or anything. That's just me. Similarly, reading long posts that cut in the middle of your action scene bores you. Ruins your rhythm or the pace of the scene as it flows in your mind. That's not something I intend or want to do. Now that I'm aware of your preferences, I'm less likely to join the rps you do because I don't want to ruin your rping experience...and I don't see myself changing any time soon. Doubt we have similar tastes anyway since I've always been more drama than action
Just so you're aware though, if you claim something like over-excessive details kill an rp, you're going to get a lot of backlash from detailed rpers. That's just the way things roll. Detailed rpers gain immersion from the bloody, gory details so realistic is arguable as well, even in fight scenes. No one's disagreeing with you just for the sake of disagreeing with you. They're just saying what they think and how they feel about the topic. If you say something like over-excessive detail kill the rps I like to join, or ruins the real-time, immersion experience for me, then you'll get milder responses...
Killigrew
Sorry about what happened to your first rp and thanks for sharing. I think I get what you're going at, even if my logic is similar to
rae2nerdy
and
AtlannianSpy
with regards to your conclusions. Having a post minimum does add a bit of pressure...and the funny thing is, some people like pressure. Some like challenges. Some don't. There's really no way of knowing whether the players you had minded the post minimum or not unless you ask them. If they joined your rp knowing about the minimum, chances are they didn't have too much trouble with it. Yet you're saying that focusing on length distracted them from interacting...and that your being detailed with the setting and lore cut off communication...which sounds a little odd to me.
My current rp doesn't have a post minimum. Yet, the occ chat is still pretty silent because I'm naturally an introvert (small talk bores me little). I have to force myself to think of something to say. And if I had the time to do that, I'd rather be working on a post to further the plot. I want people to like my rp because they like my rp, not just because I was a good talker...or at least, that's my excuse. Truth is, I'm just not a very chatty person <.<
People rp for different reasons. They also find different things fun. In an ideal rp, rules wouldn't be necessary at all. If everyone thought alike, life, and rping would be so much easier. People of various skill levels and writing styles would interact with each other without feeling bored or unsatisfied. Sadly, it isn't. We're all unique. A post minimum enforces a certain amount of content per post...Why would anyone do that? Think hard and maybe you'll come up with reasons by jumping into their shoes. Perhaps the gm likes reading a certain amount of content from players. Perhaps they are searching for players who can match their writing length to rp with. Perhaps they really are elitist and only rp well with their kind. Might be a little to too soon to say you'll please every rper without a post minimium. Though, your conclusions do have merit, and I can definitely understand your desire to be inclusive and simply enjoy yourself, I'm not sure how you'll get the direct rpers (from
Whisker
's definition) and the indirect rpers together under one roof without one party being left unsatisfied...that's just the way people are.
Idea
I hope your teeth are okay. You and I share the same taste when it comes to responses.
I see. I applaud your efforts then. For they come from a noble cause. I can't say I'm as committed to cutting down on excessive detail as you are, but I get what you are saying. Whether a post is short or long, good or bad, I think they're all worth reading. Why? Because I assume the rper joined the rp with the same initial intentions as I. To have fun and interact with other characters. I'm a slow, detailed rper though and that's not going to change. If the other player understands that and is willing to read(I mean seriously read) through my posts and respond to it, then I don't care what type of writing style the other rper uses or their skill level.
I'm not here to judge an rper on their writing.
That said, even though I don't use fancy vocabulary, even though I don't practice purple prose, I call myself an detailed rper. Why? Because I like reading content more than I care about pacing. I want to know how the player's character thinks IC. I want reactions. Emotions. I'm the type of person that feeds off the ideas of others and builds upon them. So the more ideas players give me, the more content players add to the rp (whether it's their character's content or story content), the more hyped I am about continuing. It's what gets me hooked. Shorter posts can certainly be good in their own right. However, to pull off Axton's characterization for example, while keeping posts short, requires considerable skill. Not many rpers can do that. Heck, not many writers can do that. So if I do see short posts that can pull that off then I would be mucho impressed.
Not to say that short posts can't do that. I do enjoy them every once in a while. They are direct, to the point, and do get things moving again. It's not like I can't respond to them either. I'll treat all rpers the same whether they write good, bad, short, or long, but if I have more to say about the long poster's post, it's not because I favor them more, but rather because they give me more to talk about and respond to. I can't read the short poster's mind. And unless we chat ooc, I can't really gauge what type of character they are trying to create or their level of interest in the rp either.
Look at minimum post length one way and it's causing superfluous writing. Look at it another way and it's encouraging players to think of ideas for the rp and their character by forcing them to write more than they're used to. Are they "good" ideas? Are they simply pushing in words to satisfy a requirement and filling space? Who knows? Many of the people here are still high schoolers. But at least they're thinking and trying. And the more they do, the more they'll improve as writers. Maybe it's just me, but the more I write for a character, the more I delve into their psyche, the more I end up loving the characters I create. More than any story, or any particular interaction with any other character, that's what motivates me to keep going in an rp.
My love for my characters.
Uncultured
Since you've indirectly attacked one of my replies to your responses, let me clarify things a bit...
I was not trying to argue your post.
If you'll notice, I only quoted only one line of your post. That's the one where you asked how it was fair that an 8-sentence awesome post gets critiqued while a 6-paragraph sh*t post doesn't. I answered it as if I were a fair gm. Fairness ignores favoritism, so even if the gm did like the 8 sentence post more than the 6-paragraph one, they would still tell the player that they need a couple more sentences in their post. That's what fair means.
I had no intention of debating with you about the usefulness/uselessness of said rules since our thoughts are bound to be vastly different due to our different preferences...and you've made it quite clear that nothing anyone said will change your mind in any manner. That's just as well. I'm fairly sure nothing said in this forum will change what I like and don't like either. I'm not much of an action rper. Back and forth posts of players punching each other doesn't appeal to me. Jet-fire posts tire me out. Short interactions grows stale after a while. I'm not trying to put down shorter posts or anything. That's just me. Similarly, reading long posts that cut in the middle of your action scene bores you. Ruins your rhythm or the pace of the scene as it flows in your mind. That's not something I intend or want to do. Now that I'm aware of your preferences, I'm less likely to join the rps you do because I don't want to ruin your rping experience...and I don't see myself changing any time soon. Doubt we have similar tastes anyway since I've always been more drama than action
Just so you're aware though, if you claim something like over-excessive details kill an rp, you're going to get a lot of backlash from detailed rpers. That's just the way things roll. Detailed rpers gain immersion from the bloody, gory details so realistic is arguable as well, even in fight scenes. No one's disagreeing with you just for the sake of disagreeing with you. They're just saying what they think and how they feel about the topic. If you say something like over-excessive detail kill the rps I like to join, or ruins the real-time, immersion experience for me, then you'll get milder responses...
Killigrew
Sorry about what happened to your first rp and thanks for sharing. I think I get what you're going at, even if my logic is similar to
rae2nerdy
and
AtlannianSpy
with regards to your conclusions. Having a post minimum does add a bit of pressure...and the funny thing is, some people like pressure. Some like challenges. Some don't. There's really no way of knowing whether the players you had minded the post minimum or not unless you ask them. If they joined your rp knowing about the minimum, chances are they didn't have too much trouble with it. Yet you're saying that focusing on length distracted them from interacting...and that your being detailed with the setting and lore cut off communication...which sounds a little odd to me.My current rp doesn't have a post minimum. Yet, the occ chat is still pretty silent because I'm naturally an introvert (small talk bores me little). I have to force myself to think of something to say. And if I had the time to do that, I'd rather be working on a post to further the plot. I want people to like my rp because they like my rp, not just because I was a good talker...or at least, that's my excuse. Truth is, I'm just not a very chatty person <.<
People rp for different reasons. They also find different things fun. In an ideal rp, rules wouldn't be necessary at all. If everyone thought alike, life, and rping would be so much easier. People of various skill levels and writing styles would interact with each other without feeling bored or unsatisfied. Sadly, it isn't. We're all unique. A post minimum enforces a certain amount of content per post...Why would anyone do that? Think hard and maybe you'll come up with reasons by jumping into their shoes. Perhaps the gm likes reading a certain amount of content from players. Perhaps they are searching for players who can match their writing length to rp with. Perhaps they really are elitist and only rp well with their kind. Might be a little to too soon to say you'll please every rper without a post minimium. Though, your conclusions do have merit, and I can definitely understand your desire to be inclusive and simply enjoy yourself, I'm not sure how you'll get the direct rpers (from
Whisker
's definition) and the indirect rpers together under one roof without one party being left unsatisfied...that's just the way people are.
Idea
I hope your teeth are okay. You and I share the same taste when it comes to responses.
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Idea
The Pun Tyrant
Why, thank you for the compliment
I guess I could say something similar regarding players trying to work their way into becoming more detailed, when it is clear to see they have a casual mindset.
I see. I think we're in agreement that just writing well with no magic to it (though being a more planning RPer, I prefer that magic come in how the posts are fleshed out rather than what direction the plot takes), with nothing spontaneous about it isn't that interesting. As you may recall, both my goals would be gone without the interaction from other players, as I wouldn't get to share my craft and experience their own.
However, I would like to add that it's not just that I am satisfied by reaching "new heights", but perhaps even moreso that I can't be satisfied unless I reach those "new heights". There's no point in a hobby if in the end of the day I'm worse off than how I started and that's what the sense of regret after roleplaying in a shorter format does to me.
Ah, Killi, there is more there than meets the eye if that's the conclusion you're coming to. If you'd like I could break down the whole post and explain it. When I actually have time, that is, after my exams are over. And of course, only if you'd like, last thing I wanna do is go pester you with something boring. So let me know if you'd like me to, and I'll send you a PM about it when I have the time. Otherwise, I'll assume ya don't
Well, it's all a matter of learning. Minimalistic RPers have a learning curve of making their content, albeit short, more meaningful and engaging. While worse minimalistic RPers will have their characters be completely parallel to the action doing things or saying things which don't even reflect the characters and are ultimately meaningless, better minimalist RPers will provide content which is character bound, engaging and moves things foward.
Likewise, detailed RPers also have a learning curve, which usually involves learning to be less flowery for flowery's sake, to distribute their space better and make it more character and situation bound, and how to handle the plot moving foward.
I don't see characters loosing characterization by putting "after-the-fact commentary, thoughts, considerations". This is something everyone, and I mean everyone, does on automatic. So, showing the particulars of how their mindset works is one rather important way to show characterization, in my eyes. That said, I am curious as to why you think it looses characterization and why you think being more loose can enhance characterization.
What I think you're suggesting is something which I have actually attempted before. I have this thing called a "content minimum" which is a list of several elements that have to be present in a post regardless of length. Action, reaction, thoughts, emotions, movement in time and space, dialogue and a couple other things. For the longest time, this was the only standard I used. The results? Unsustainable. Much like with posting requirements, half the things were just half-assed. And sometimes it was impossible to read to check every post. A posting requirement was just more pratical, and harder to abuse.
But you may be thinking, "well, if you had no requirement at all..." but that is in direct conflict with my goals. I want to create and read in response a certain kind of posts. And I want the people making those posts to also be enjoying themselves with that kind of posts. Once I know that the people around me are more detail-oriented, that they are thinking about the writing in their posts rather than just producing them on whims, then sure, I can loosen up. I do so with 1x1s often, rarely if ever will you see me complaining to a 1x1 partner about their post length because I know for a fact with those that if they give me a shorter post it's because it was in fact the best way they could see to respond, not because it was the easiest or the first one to come to mind.
Short posts are not inherently bad. Even minimalistic posts are not inherently bad. But just like long posts, they are for different kinds of people. Different kinds of mindset. Postin requirements are, again, not the perfect way to go about finding people with such a mindset, but I can't see any better way.
You have a point there
Idea
The Pun Tyrant
Thanks! I hopefully will be better soon once I get back form the dentist
Noble Scion
Crow, seeker of shiny things
Minimum post lengths exist to help maintain an interesting scene within a roleplay and to try and enforce the idea that if you give more content with someone else to work with, they will give more interesting responses in return, along with an equal amount of content for you to use.
It’s also a nice way of transitioning from simple to casual or casual to detailed. I remember my first detailed RP xD, it made me try and come up with more things to say, and while you could say that it’s just waffling, it really encourages you to improve many things, like your interest in detail. I found adding small bits to the scenery really helps people come to terms with the surrounding area and as such, makes the roleplay more smooth in the running of that section.
It also seperates writers that aren’t really bothered from the ones that want to have an interesting story. Not that there’s anything wrong with writing short posts, but if you had a bunch of people with hugely varying post lengths where someone writes like 4 paragraphs and someone responds with *I walk up and say hello*
It would really mess with the detailed writer as then they wouldn’t feel rewarded for ilong and interesting posts.
It’s kinda like a giving-recieving thing, with the minimum post length being a way of making sure everyone gets something :3
It’s also a nice way of transitioning from simple to casual or casual to detailed. I remember my first detailed RP xD, it made me try and come up with more things to say, and while you could say that it’s just waffling, it really encourages you to improve many things, like your interest in detail. I found adding small bits to the scenery really helps people come to terms with the surrounding area and as such, makes the roleplay more smooth in the running of that section.
It also seperates writers that aren’t really bothered from the ones that want to have an interesting story. Not that there’s anything wrong with writing short posts, but if you had a bunch of people with hugely varying post lengths where someone writes like 4 paragraphs and someone responds with *I walk up and say hello*
It would really mess with the detailed writer as then they wouldn’t feel rewarded for ilong and interesting posts.
It’s kinda like a giving-recieving thing, with the minimum post length being a way of making sure everyone gets something :3
Whisker
Damnation Dignified
For what it’s worth, I thought your post was an excellent example of what a Detailed Post should be. If I was in that roleplay, I wouldn’t have any problem of responding in a meaningful way (type what my character was doing/thinking, respond to presumably the others, and then type my thoughts on your character, and react).
When I say that Detailed posts sometimes cause problems is when it comes down to one character interacting with another. This is the kind of stuff people who prefer a lot of Direct interaction thrive on, but it’s not always something Detailed Indirect writers can do well. And some of it does stem from minimal posting requirements at times as the partner feels obligated to put words down on a page.
I’ll use Axton’s post as an example:
You see I have bolded the last sentence as that is where the primary interaction and subsequent reaction will stem from. It's short and it asks only two questions making it easy to respond to. I will sometimes get and receive posts where the dialogue is written as though the character is an NPC in a video game (essentially where they talk at your character instead of to them). Or they will perform actions that should otherwise take a great deal of time and progress forward without giving room for your character to interact directly.
Most Direct roleplayers like myself would find that a form of hostage-taking as it implies that my character did nothing and merely allowed the events to progress. Like for example, if our characters were in the middle of having an argument and your character just shouted 30 lines of dialogue at me, got up, stormed out, left the scene, and then went to the club to meet her girlfriend, that would make it awfully hard to respond.
That's an extreme example, of course, and it would be considered rude to almost everyone, but it's somewhat the kind of thing that we encounter in roleplay all the time. The example above could be find if the roleplayer wasn't interacting with anyone but NPCs that they could control and manipulate at will. But I would damn well accept a short post that allows my character freedom to add to the scene over one where they're tossed to the background as a means of filling out some silly word quota.
I hope that helps find some understanding as to what we're talking about. I am not at war with people who like Detail, characterization, and post length and all that jazz. I'm just trying to point that sometimes they're not always the best - especially when it comes to scenes where two characters are interacting.[/QUOTE]
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Bone2pick
Minority of One
It is an extreme example, I agree, but I'll indulge it. Your last quoted sentence is unfounded imo. There's no evidence that a paragraph requirement caused such a time & scene dominant post from your partner. The offending player may very well have a habit of interacting like that regardless of the roleplay's rules/guidelines. And if that's the case, your only gripe would be about time & scene dominators - which as you can imagine - almost no one is willing to defend.
Killigrew
Magnificent Humanicorn
Fair enough. If I were to be worse off, I'd drop the RP in a heartbeat (although I've only once been in such a situation; usually I'm bettered for it, when I have ambitions for my character), but if it were to better my writing, I wouldn't much be finding fulfillment, since that seems commonplace (and more dependent on my own attitude than the rp at large). I applaud your ambition. I do find it far easier to improve when I write alone rather than with RPers, however.
Perhaps this is the reason: I often join an RP with the ambition to develop the character I RP. Either to make them learn gentleness, kindness, or change their mind on the world, I love to see them challenged and transformed by experiences. The best way to make that happen is through the people they meet, so I often try and make interesting relationships develop and plan them out somewhat with the RPers. DIscussion is so important here, because I don't want to be the only one planning and feeling the emotions of these characters; I want them to be just as dear to who I'm writing with. It's wonderful to see characters change each other, and that's something I can only find RPing, so I usually go into an RP wanting and hoping for that to happen. So that may be why I don't put much weight on whether I've grown as a writer as I do on how well a character develops.
Prithee, what is a 'casual mindset?' I've never heard the term and would much appreciate a description thereof.
That was exactly what I was thinking! haha
That's great! I'm glad you see the value of a shorter post. Now and then it is the best way to a respond.
Would you say then that the main reason you prefer rigorous minimal post is due to a distrust of RPers? It's perfectly reasonable if so, since they are indeed strangers. I think a good method besides a rigorous quota is a discerning GM. If they're willing to do the extra leg work and interview strangers, and have a core handful of people that they know and have seen roleplay well, it'd work. It works for me, it'll work for you! And I really think it'd be a lot more fun and a more worthy challenge in the end.If you check out my Skyfarers RP, which I'm tentatively calling closed, you'll see a variety of post-lengths throughout. The RPers have set a good pace, and we're building a world together, so I'm very much looking forward to seeing how it develops from here. The fruit of loose requisites and self-imposed standards is by far the superior option!
Now, when you say I have a point, do you mean that you also want to inspire and be inspired, think it nobler to inspire and be inspired, or recognize the difference between us? I'm curious.
Oh no, I do. I'd love to hear the explanation.Ah, Killi, there is more there than meets the eye if that's the conclusion you're coming to. If you'd like I could break down the whole post and explain it. When I actually have time, that is, after my exams are over. And of course, only if you'd like, last thing I wanna do is go pester you with something boring. So let me know if you'd like me to, and I'll send you a PM about it when I have the time. Otherwise, I'll assume ya don't
I may add as a sidenote that something I've developed (and it's a mere exercise of reason, so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not the only one to try this) is changing my style to suit the character. Currently, I'm writing a straight-talking soldier in Skyfarers, so he's going to be very glib and very literal, so I'm trying to make my style reflect that. As one who's always preferred the flowery pontification of the Romantics and Medieval writers, it's fitting strangely, but I hope it will help me recognize the 'bones' of my writing, so I can understand what flesh I attach to them, and what clothing to that flesh(by flesh I mean the characterization, and by clothing, I mean the pretty stylization that packages them).
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Killigrew
Magnificent Humanicorn
Idea
During my work day, I forgot my initial response to your post. You asked me
And I totally overlooked it when I replied today. Right, you said that "everyone does this on an everyday basis," but I must disagree. When I'm having a conversation with someone, I'm usually looking at their face and reacting to how they respond to what I say. If while I'm talking, the person grows sullen, I'll adjust myself to a gentler tone, maybe even ask what's going on with them. If they grow joyous, I'll continue what I'm saying, maybe more excitedly, as we share in mutual enjoyment. It doesn't flow the way detailed posts do -- it's not turn-based conversation. I think you lose a lot of genuine character agency -- is my character the type to ignore their interruption? Will they stop and listen to what this person's saying? Interruption, disregard, interest, shared emotions, all these things contribute to a character's agency (which is their ability to act and influence aka what makes them an effective character) and the character's relationships (which is their experiences with other characters and the derived emotions). Since those two things are strong foundations for why I like to RP, I really can't do without and still have the same joy.
awh
Yeah, some like challenges, some don't, but I don't think it has to do with being challenged, but the challenge being superfluous and, even worse, an obstacle to good collaborative storytelling.
My first GM experience was pretty great -- I made this knight academy and threw in some controversial dragons and just kind of made it up as I went. It lacked finesse, but it made up for it in excitement and heart. As the players joined, they inevitably started to ask questions about the magic, causing me to add in details to the lore -- details that we would sometimes collaborate on. Because they had asked me the question personally and clarified my replies, they only started to write about magic and interact with school teachers when they were confident of what they were dealing with.
The RP I referenced earlier was its reboot. I went all out for that one. When I detailed the setting and lore, I cut off communication; the new group of RPers saw no need to ask me questions since I had pre-empted all that they could wonder about. That was a huge inhibitor to creativity! Worse still, they didn't need to contribute anything to the RP. For all their finesse in writing, the RP itself was not a group effort; I was basically writing a story/world by myself and they were tagging along and offering side commentary.
Now to that you can poke away and say it was this problem or that problem and not the problem I'm pointing the finger at... That's the whole problem with bringing forth a personal example; although it specifies the discussion, it's subject to speculation.
I'll just leave it with this: having experienced this myself and having tried different solutions while I was experiencing those failings (by failings I mean that which missed the mark of giddy expectation), I am only certain of what the problem is because that is the only rational explanation for what I experienced. There was no issue with the RPers, no issue with the lore, but the issue lay with (perhaps I should add superfluous, since not all is un-useful) internal monologue (since they had to fill their post with something), aversion to conflict (since a long post doesn't bode well with it), and a lack of participation in worldbuilding (the world was mine, not theirs). I point the finger at post quotas and the standards of 'good rping' not because I think they're all elitists and snobs and there's no other way to please them, but because I was convinced that was the best way to enjoy RPing and not lower my standards on writing -- I could go all out and see where it took me.
There is a middle ground, a best of both worlds. Low requisites, self-imposed standards, the feels-strategem -- that's all ya need to have both interaction and detail -- that's how you get context-driven detail (ooo, pretty). High post quotas may be useful to some RPer who isn't used to writing in general, but not to those with skill in the art. They need to be challenged in different ways, in tone and style, in being compelling and in pacing. When you can meet post quotas, you don't need post quotas.
I usually don't ask the GM much either. I like to forge my own path. But if I'm really enjoying reading their story and have a cool idea to add to their world, I definitely contact them to see if it'll fit and how to make it an interesting part of their story. That's more the kind of collaboration I'm seeking, not just some social interaction.
Agreed; that's par for course.
Well, I was hoping that my explanations would actually help to clarify my points. I'm not fond of getting words put in my mouth; I, uh, hope I never said that anyone who requires minimal post length is an elitist, and if I had, I don't stand by it. I thought I said that I appreciated those longs posts in my RP, and that my RPers had done no harm and were all good writers, but that the RP itself was unable to be anything truly fun because of a perceived value in post length.
The statement "Perhaps the GM likes reading a certain amount of content from players... perhaps... match their writing length," I think that says it all. You can't help but think one way is better because you like it better. The thing is, for the very reasons people like minimal post quota, they don't need a post quota. Worse still, they miscommunicate what they really want from the RP. That's what I'm arguing. I'm definitely not saying post quota is a symptom of elitism; I'm saying it's a failure to understand how to have as much fun RPing.
Yeah, I doubt I'll please the elitists
I'm not trying to be inclusive, haha. I'm more than willing to tell people that post like Idea's first post example (the reply) that I want more commitment and worldbuilding.
Maybe there's some people out there that are really just here to write detail and have no action all the time. They don't care if their character develops or experiences anything as long as their post is pretty and they can admire its loveliness. I don't think that's very fun, and I honestly hadn't considered that option until now. If you're that, I don't think I can relate to you but I wish you all the best with post quotas and think they definitely fit what you're looking for!
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Idea
The Pun Tyrant
There hmay have been a misunderstanding here, as I used the "reach new heights" expression because that was what you used to describe what I wanted to do. I don't necessarily need to improve as a writer (though doing so is, naturally, fantastic) what I want is to put out content which I can be proud of.
I don't think that changes anything about what you're saying, but I just felt like clarifying it.
It's a little hard to pinpoint, but it's mostly a matter of priorities and what one thinks about. Players with a casual mindset will focus more on the action and dialogue, have a bigger difficulty even realizing there is worldbuilding that can be done, or exploring the emotional depth of the character, essentially other perhaps in a sense smaller details... often resulting in detailed posts filled mostly with gibberish or with far too many actions/dialogue comparitively to what is called for.
Another trait I would say is this expectation of immediate gratification from writing. Of having to enjoy the very act of writing the post, often coupled with the idea that one should only right when they have "the muse".
That said, that's a very roughly put-together description. The important thing about what I'm calling "the casual mindset" is that some players aren't suited, in style or habit, to roleplay in a detailed format.
Yeah, I guess you could say that it's due to a distrust, well, that and because it's simply more pratical if the GM has anything like a busy schedule. I mean thus far I haven't really been given a reason not to. Certainly none that could even the scales with everything I've experienced since I started roleplaying.
Still, your suggesting is intriguing. I think it may have a bit of the same problem writing samples had in that I think it's not fair to value people on hidden, or worse, whim-based standards, but it certainly may be worth looking into.
*presses the OPTION A button*
Then I'll PM you after my exam
You're right you're not the only one. Though my style is not so dissimilar across my characters (the person behind the screen is still the same, so there is a limit to how different I can make posts based on character), but it affects the ratio of focus, my choice in vocabulary, punctuation and other aspects of my post...
I see. I must admit, there is a bit of loss of character there. I mean, your character can interrupt if they would, but since the other post is already written it's already rendered innefective.
Do let me bring up the other side of the coin though. What about the agency of the character connected to the environment, to their thought process and to the other character? Is the time of the day, the wheather, the way the other character is talking, how a character processes what is being said, is all of that somehting which would be irrelevant to a character's actions?
Which is not to say "oh you're in the wrong here miss". If you appreciate more one kind of characterization and can't have fun without it, who am I to say that's wrong? Especially given this isn't one sided, there definitely is a loss on one end for the wins on the other. Heck, I myself have, in my prefered style (planned RPs), a solution to both of these, but it looses out on the surprise aspect, making the vast majority of people hate that kind of RPing
QuirkyAngel
White Masquerade's Blue Oni
[/QUOTE]
I'd like to bask in your praise a little longer, but...
Rin listened to the green haired girl's response, observed her reaction to his opposition, without saying much of anything. Otonashi stepping between them didn't really distract him from his silent scrutiny of the abrasive girl, though Gomamon's explanation as to why they were brought into the Digital World did...briefly. A dark-haired girl then spoke up, deriding their argument, as if it were mere childish tantrums, before filling the new arrival in with certain details and walking off. Slipping a free black-nailed hand his pocket, Rin didn't so much as look at the black haired girl...the one the small pig-like digimon called Ravyn. It wasn't as if her opinion mattered much to him.
"I see," Rin replied neutrally to the green haired girl."Glad to hear you have no plans of leading us. "
Then, moving past the abrasive green hair, Rin continued where he left off before she had spoken--down the path towards Infinity Mountain. She'd answered his inquiry. The danger she spoke of was illness and injury. Her stance was that a larger group made things easier--decreased individual burdens. It was true...so long as everyone in the group agreed to take on their share. Rin didn't have very much faith in people. If he got injured or ill in this unknown world, it would be on him. He didn't expect a friend to carry his burden, much less a stranger. That's what they all were. Strangers caught in the same surreal situation. That didn't necessarily make them allies. In fact, those who prioritized survival, often did so by cutting off weak links.
He continued talking.
"Darya, the one who went ahead, clearly had her own agendas. Her own priorities. There’s nothing wrong with that. People should do what they want. However, a group with different priorities and goals will only add to each others burdens if forced to stick together." He glanced back at Gomamon...then the green haired girl. "The goal of being hero and the goal of survival for example. One will eventually oppose the other. If you deny that fact, then you're more of an optimist than you appear."
Whether his words were necessary to the group or not; Whether she wanted to hear them or not; Whether they were even true or not, those were his thoughts, and Rin wasn’t going to silence them for anyone’s sake.
The sack at the end of his stick shook, reminding him of Gumimon’s presence. "What's an optimist?"
Peering at the baby digimon tucked in with his things, Rin finally noticed the crumbs on its cheeks. He rolled his eyes and redirected his gaze straight ahead as he walked. "Someone with a positive outlook on life."
"So the opposite of you?"
Rin shrugged. He'd heard about Ogremon from the baby monsters in the village. He'd seen Leomon and Goblimon. It wasn't as if he wasn't aware that there were other, bigger, possibly more dangerous monsters out there in the Digital World. However, unlike the purple dragon or Otonashi, he didn't have any intention of fighting them. Not unless they opposed his own goals.
“But, you know, if Gomamon’s right about the legends, and he’s usually is since he was the smartest digimon in the village—besides Sorcerermon of course—then you and the other humans were brought here to be heroes! Saving two worlds…that’s a big responsibility.”
“Get your ears checked, Mochi. He said our arrival means that the worlds are on the verge of collapse. That when humans are called to your world it’s always in times of great peril. Who’s to say we aren’t the cause of that? That our being brought here is a curse and it’ll only doom both worlds the longer we stay.”
“…geez, Rin. Why are you so depressing? Is it because you wear a lot of black?”
“The only thing I want to do is to return to my world.”
“You will,” Gumimon promised. “I said I’ll help you. I may not be very big right now, but I’m sure with the holy Eye-Phone Seven, I’ll grow up as big as everyone here. Bigger than Renamon and Leomon even. Then I’ll carry you home. You’ll see. I won’t let you die like she said.”
Rin didn’t reply. Pushing a branch aside, he continued along the trail without looking back. Whether he was with the group or not with the group didn’t matter to him. He didn’t move because anyone told him to. Nor did he intend to stay because anyone told him to. Rin would only do what he wanted, whether it meant striking out on his own or not.
“But you know, sticking together like she said has its benefits too.” The green baby digimon in his bindle continued to chatter away, heedless of any tension that might be going on between the humans. Or whether or not Rin responded (he didn’t). “You’ll make some friends. And it’s more fun with more people to talk to. No offense, Rin, but you’re not very fun to talk to. You should tell me more about yourself. Don’t you and the other humans live in the same home? What’s it look like? I can’t help find it if I don’t know what it looks like, you know.”
"I see," Rin replied neutrally to the green haired girl."Glad to hear you have no plans of leading us. "
Then, moving past the abrasive green hair, Rin continued where he left off before she had spoken--down the path towards Infinity Mountain. She'd answered his inquiry. The danger she spoke of was illness and injury. Her stance was that a larger group made things easier--decreased individual burdens. It was true...so long as everyone in the group agreed to take on their share. Rin didn't have very much faith in people. If he got injured or ill in this unknown world, it would be on him. He didn't expect a friend to carry his burden, much less a stranger. That's what they all were. Strangers caught in the same surreal situation. That didn't necessarily make them allies. In fact, those who prioritized survival, often did so by cutting off weak links.
He continued talking.
"Darya, the one who went ahead, clearly had her own agendas. Her own priorities. There’s nothing wrong with that. People should do what they want. However, a group with different priorities and goals will only add to each others burdens if forced to stick together." He glanced back at Gomamon...then the green haired girl. "The goal of being hero and the goal of survival for example. One will eventually oppose the other. If you deny that fact, then you're more of an optimist than you appear."
Whether his words were necessary to the group or not; Whether she wanted to hear them or not; Whether they were even true or not, those were his thoughts, and Rin wasn’t going to silence them for anyone’s sake.
The sack at the end of his stick shook, reminding him of Gumimon’s presence. "What's an optimist?"
Peering at the baby digimon tucked in with his things, Rin finally noticed the crumbs on its cheeks. He rolled his eyes and redirected his gaze straight ahead as he walked. "Someone with a positive outlook on life."
"So the opposite of you?"
Rin shrugged. He'd heard about Ogremon from the baby monsters in the village. He'd seen Leomon and Goblimon. It wasn't as if he wasn't aware that there were other, bigger, possibly more dangerous monsters out there in the Digital World. However, unlike the purple dragon or Otonashi, he didn't have any intention of fighting them. Not unless they opposed his own goals.
“But, you know, if Gomamon’s right about the legends, and he’s usually is since he was the smartest digimon in the village—besides Sorcerermon of course—then you and the other humans were brought here to be heroes! Saving two worlds…that’s a big responsibility.”
“Get your ears checked, Mochi. He said our arrival means that the worlds are on the verge of collapse. That when humans are called to your world it’s always in times of great peril. Who’s to say we aren’t the cause of that? That our being brought here is a curse and it’ll only doom both worlds the longer we stay.”
“…geez, Rin. Why are you so depressing? Is it because you wear a lot of black?”
“The only thing I want to do is to return to my world.”
“You will,” Gumimon promised. “I said I’ll help you. I may not be very big right now, but I’m sure with the holy Eye-Phone Seven, I’ll grow up as big as everyone here. Bigger than Renamon and Leomon even. Then I’ll carry you home. You’ll see. I won’t let you die like she said.”
Rin didn’t reply. Pushing a branch aside, he continued along the trail without looking back. Whether he was with the group or not with the group didn’t matter to him. He didn’t move because anyone told him to. Nor did he intend to stay because anyone told him to. Rin would only do what he wanted, whether it meant striking out on his own or not.
“But you know, sticking together like she said has its benefits too.” The green baby digimon in his bindle continued to chatter away, heedless of any tension that might be going on between the humans. Or whether or not Rin responded (he didn’t). “You’ll make some friends. And it’s more fun with more people to talk to. No offense, Rin, but you’re not very fun to talk to. You should tell me more about yourself. Don’t you and the other humans live in the same home? What’s it look like? I can’t help find it if I don’t know what it looks like, you know.”
Here's a post in which one of my characters says his piece in and argument and then walks away like he's all that. He even has a partner npc he speaks to afterwards. Granted, his actions were entirely in-line with the personality I'd created for him (he's a difficult child), and his partner npc is meant to serve as the balance to his character while indirectly revealing more about him to the other players. In this situation, I was more focused on writing a scene than writing something that's easy to respond to. Not all my characters are easy to interact with...nor do I always want to interact with other players. Players are no longer free to verbally interact with my character (unless they chase after him or something^^), but there's no stopping them from responding to my post. That's all I really want. A response. It's the difference between direct and indirect rping you were talking about. I'm not just direct. I'm a mix of both.
And here's my talky teacher:
“Very impressive, Miss Emory.” A blonde lady said as she strolled towards the students from the direction of the ship. Arms folded over chest, she studied the young pokemon trainers silently behind her black rimmed glasses, before speaking up once again. “There is indeed a pokemon center along the route we’ll take...though I do hope nothing exciting of that sort happens again.”
Professor Yew (NPC)
“I don’t dislike pokemon battling. As a matter of fact, our school is quite well known for it—especially among students in the Moltres Dorm. However, I do believe in order when it comes to a structuralized education system like ours. There is a time and a place for battles.” Violet eyes flickered to Gabriel and Mimikyu, her expression apathetic. “I'm not certain how things are done in Alola, but here in the Kanto region, when a professor tells a student to gather around, it is expected that the student does as they are told straight away. Personal training can be done on your own time. However, if a teacher, human or pokemon, takes their time to give you instructions during a class, you follow it….or deal with the consequences.”
“Now, now, Professor Yew. I have Young Gabriel’s name. There’s no need to talk about consequences when classes have yet to begin—and won’t begin for another month. Let them have their fun for now. The orientation, after all, was designed with that in mind.”
“And yet, unless we inform the students about the consequences of their actions, how will we expect them to succeed in RBY Institute?”
Professor Slowking didn’t respond, simply letting out a relaxed hum, and slowly checking the names that had come his way in his typical non-hurried manner. Professor Yew took that as permission to continue—addressing all the students.
“Every action has a consequence. This is especially true when dealing with pokemon—as I’m sure some of you have come to realize. Step on a pokemon and you could get bitten. Challenge one to a fight and you won’t always come out unscathed. The school has a pokemon center to heal your pokemon and teachers to protect you in case something happens, but this won’t hold true once you step outside the boundaries of this school into the real world. Even within the grounds of RBY Institute, there are certain areas and caves that I wouldn’t advise going into without the company of a supervisor. Your safety is a priority among the staff at school. However, if instructions are not followed, your safety cannot be guaranteed.”
Professor Yew pushed up her glasses. “RBY Institute was built upon a single ideology, a rule that can be be considered the most important of all other rules—barring no physical violence towards teachers and students of course. That is respect for the individual pokemon.” Yew paused for a moment, to let that bit sink in. “The difference between those who choose undertake their journey in a school setting and those who choose to take their individual journeys, is that you do not have to run around having your pokemon fight wild pokemon to train your team. We have training rooms for that. High tech battle simulators that cater to your individual needs. Fellow students whom you can challenge and improve your skills with. Unless you intend to catch the pokemon, there’s no need to pick a fight with it. In fact, such an action is ill-advised, since it only increases the likelihood of endangerment for said pokemon on this island as well as makes things difficult for your fellow researchers in the Zapdos dorm. You’ll learn more on that subject in a Pokemon Biodiversity class…or possibly a pokemon world history class. ” Professor Yew glanced towards Justin, her face finally taking a mildly annoyed expression. “We certainly do not incite mobs of pidgeys to endanger ourselves and our fellow students. It’s beneath the standards of an RBY Student to behave that way which both disrespects the pokemon and the safety of the passengers on RBY Yaht. In fact, if the school year were in session, and Headmaster Hazel wasn’t currently away on business, the involved party would be facing severe penalties for their misdeeds.”
A cough-like sound came from Professor Slowking. “I’ve finished checking off all the names, Professor Yew.”
“Good. Then we can proceed with the Orientation, which I’m sure many of you are curious about.” A pokedex floated beside Professor Yew. “Thank you, Professor Slowking.” Taking the device and turning it on, a holographic image of RBY island appeared. “Embedded in the pokedex we’ve given you is a map of the school grounds. It’s impossible to visit every single facility in a single day, so we aren’t going to. Better that you read a map and learn as you go anyway. However, what we do need to do is get you settled in your dorms, which is where you’ll be living for the remainder of the school year.”
The image shifted, this time displaying a picture of professor Yew and all her identifying information.
“Your pokedex will serve as your student ID for the entirety of your stay at RBY Institute. It is the key to your dorm room. It’s what’ll allow you access to the training rooms. Captain Marcus wouldn’t have let you aboard our school yaht without it. So don’t lose it. It’s a pain to make a replacement.” The last line was said bluntly, as if simply stating a fact. “At the top you’ll see the dormitory to which you have been assigned. The decision was carefully made based on a number of factors revealed in your application and thoroughly discussed by our admittance committee as well as your dorm heads. We believe that putting you in a similar living environment with those who share your goals and dreams will increase the likelihood of success in your individual aspirations.” Professor Yew paused for a moment, to let all the information sink in, before continuing. “There are 4 dormitories on campus, three of which are accessible to students. For this orientation, we will stop at all three dormitories. Once there, students who have volunteered to assist in the Orientation will tell you about their dorm, provide you with more information regarding RBY Institute, and possibly give you a challenge or activity reflecting the ideals of the dorm.”
“Participation in these activities is not mandatory,” Professor Slowking added benignly. “But there will be rewards given to winner of every challenge. The dormitories are normally inaccessible to those who don’t belong in them, so it’s a good idea to make use of this opportunity to explore the different dorms when you’ve got the chance.”
Professor Yew nodded, switching the holographic image back to the map of RBY island and zooming in. “Our first stop is the Zapdos dormitory. It’s just through the forest behind me. On the route between the Zapdos dorm and the Articuno dorm is a pokemon center for those who need the rest. ”
Ophelia’s hands shot up once again.
“Yes, Miss Magnolia?”
“What’s that building over there?”
Professor Yew followed Ophelia’s pointer finger to a structure on the edge of a rocky cliff, not too far from the beach. “That is the PokeLab where I, and my team, conduct our research on various pokemon. It is not a subject for this orientation. You will all get to see the inside of that structure if you take my classes. ” Yew’s gaze swept the students and pokemon standing at the beach. “Any more questions before we get going?”
Professor Yew (NPC)
“Now, now, Professor Yew. I have Young Gabriel’s name. There’s no need to talk about consequences when classes have yet to begin—and won’t begin for another month. Let them have their fun for now. The orientation, after all, was designed with that in mind.”
“And yet, unless we inform the students about the consequences of their actions, how will we expect them to succeed in RBY Institute?”
Professor Slowking didn’t respond, simply letting out a relaxed hum, and slowly checking the names that had come his way in his typical non-hurried manner. Professor Yew took that as permission to continue—addressing all the students.
“Every action has a consequence. This is especially true when dealing with pokemon—as I’m sure some of you have come to realize. Step on a pokemon and you could get bitten. Challenge one to a fight and you won’t always come out unscathed. The school has a pokemon center to heal your pokemon and teachers to protect you in case something happens, but this won’t hold true once you step outside the boundaries of this school into the real world. Even within the grounds of RBY Institute, there are certain areas and caves that I wouldn’t advise going into without the company of a supervisor. Your safety is a priority among the staff at school. However, if instructions are not followed, your safety cannot be guaranteed.”
Professor Yew pushed up her glasses. “RBY Institute was built upon a single ideology, a rule that can be be considered the most important of all other rules—barring no physical violence towards teachers and students of course. That is respect for the individual pokemon.” Yew paused for a moment, to let that bit sink in. “The difference between those who choose undertake their journey in a school setting and those who choose to take their individual journeys, is that you do not have to run around having your pokemon fight wild pokemon to train your team. We have training rooms for that. High tech battle simulators that cater to your individual needs. Fellow students whom you can challenge and improve your skills with. Unless you intend to catch the pokemon, there’s no need to pick a fight with it. In fact, such an action is ill-advised, since it only increases the likelihood of endangerment for said pokemon on this island as well as makes things difficult for your fellow researchers in the Zapdos dorm. You’ll learn more on that subject in a Pokemon Biodiversity class…or possibly a pokemon world history class. ” Professor Yew glanced towards Justin, her face finally taking a mildly annoyed expression. “We certainly do not incite mobs of pidgeys to endanger ourselves and our fellow students. It’s beneath the standards of an RBY Student to behave that way which both disrespects the pokemon and the safety of the passengers on RBY Yaht. In fact, if the school year were in session, and Headmaster Hazel wasn’t currently away on business, the involved party would be facing severe penalties for their misdeeds.”
A cough-like sound came from Professor Slowking. “I’ve finished checking off all the names, Professor Yew.”
“Good. Then we can proceed with the Orientation, which I’m sure many of you are curious about.” A pokedex floated beside Professor Yew. “Thank you, Professor Slowking.” Taking the device and turning it on, a holographic image of RBY island appeared. “Embedded in the pokedex we’ve given you is a map of the school grounds. It’s impossible to visit every single facility in a single day, so we aren’t going to. Better that you read a map and learn as you go anyway. However, what we do need to do is get you settled in your dorms, which is where you’ll be living for the remainder of the school year.”
The image shifted, this time displaying a picture of professor Yew and all her identifying information.
“Your pokedex will serve as your student ID for the entirety of your stay at RBY Institute. It is the key to your dorm room. It’s what’ll allow you access to the training rooms. Captain Marcus wouldn’t have let you aboard our school yaht without it. So don’t lose it. It’s a pain to make a replacement.” The last line was said bluntly, as if simply stating a fact. “At the top you’ll see the dormitory to which you have been assigned. The decision was carefully made based on a number of factors revealed in your application and thoroughly discussed by our admittance committee as well as your dorm heads. We believe that putting you in a similar living environment with those who share your goals and dreams will increase the likelihood of success in your individual aspirations.” Professor Yew paused for a moment, to let all the information sink in, before continuing. “There are 4 dormitories on campus, three of which are accessible to students. For this orientation, we will stop at all three dormitories. Once there, students who have volunteered to assist in the Orientation will tell you about their dorm, provide you with more information regarding RBY Institute, and possibly give you a challenge or activity reflecting the ideals of the dorm.”
“Participation in these activities is not mandatory,” Professor Slowking added benignly. “But there will be rewards given to winner of every challenge. The dormitories are normally inaccessible to those who don’t belong in them, so it’s a good idea to make use of this opportunity to explore the different dorms when you’ve got the chance.”
Professor Yew nodded, switching the holographic image back to the map of RBY island and zooming in. “Our first stop is the Zapdos dormitory. It’s just through the forest behind me. On the route between the Zapdos dorm and the Articuno dorm is a pokemon center for those who need the rest. ”
Ophelia’s hands shot up once again.
“Yes, Miss Magnolia?”
“What’s that building over there?”
Professor Yew followed Ophelia’s pointer finger to a structure on the edge of a rocky cliff, not too far from the beach. “That is the PokeLab where I, and my team, conduct our research on various pokemon. It is not a subject for this orientation. You will all get to see the inside of that structure if you take my classes. ” Yew’s gaze swept the students and pokemon standing at the beach. “Any more questions before we get going?”
I can't say whether she managed to reach 30 lines or not (I don't count my sentences), but I do have my characters monologue when I feel it fits the scene. In this case, I'm telling players more about my setting with her lecture.
All of my details have a purpose. At the same time, I've no idea if my writing is difficult to reply to or not=P When I rp with others, I want them to focus on their characters. To respond to my post, but mainly to build off on it. That, to me, is what collaborative writing means. You write a portion of the story. I write a portion of the story. Others write their portion of the story. We continue this until the story is finished.
If you've noticed a trend in most detailed rps, it's that interaction is very small. One or two back and forth, long posts at most. Afterwards the detailed rpers are ready to move on. Long interactions aren't really their thing. It might be due to the length of their posts...but, tbh, I think that's just the personality of the detailed rper. Or, it might just be me as a detailed rper. Small talk really isn't my thing. I want a round of every player voicing their character's deep opinion of a subject. Then we move on.
Detail doesn't mean skilled. This is a mistake many people make and you are right to point out. It's a flavor that says I like content-full posts. Doesn't mean I'm a great rper. Doesn't mean I expect high skill from my rpers. What you talk about is things like rping skill, etiquette, etc. Players moving time forward without consent. Godmodding. You're saying that too much detail can cause that...or contribute to it...but it doesn't. That's a result of players getting too excited and forgetting the rules of rping. Length of post have nothing to do with that.
You didn't. I'm the one that said the person wanting a post minimum might be elitist
I didn't say anything's wrong with elitism either. Break that word down to it's root meaning, and it just means that there are some that only like to rp with their kind. And isn't that human nature? To flock to those we are similar to?I'm glad we agree that you can't please the elitist. That was the only point I was trying to get across. Fun is different for every rper.
Thanks for clarifying how having too much pre-listed detail made it difficult for your players to communicate though. Again, I don't agree with the logic (getting from point A to point B, since detail and rp communication for me are two separate matters...), but I understand the point you're getting across now. You're saying, by telling players too much beforehand, it made things difficult to talk about afterwards. The players ran out of questions...which I think has nothing to with you being detailed.
I certainly don't mean to invalidate your experiences, even if I don't agree with your conclusion. I was just curious as to how you came up with it.
Detail doesn't mean no action or character development.
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Tabby
Derpsichord
I think that's more of a difference between 1x1 and group RP, imo, than detailed/non detailed.
I'm definitely a more detail oriented RPer - but the character interactions are a HUGE part of RPing to me (otherwise I'd just write smut about humanized planets or tide pod-chan making out with clorox-chan), and I've definitely noticed that regardless of length I find it harder to get that uh, I dunno, 'buzz' out of of larger group RP, there's SO much going on that it just naturally lends itself to moving along if you EVER want it to move along at all. Not to say that detail large-group interaction is impossible - have done it here and there - just IMO it takes better coordination.
That said, in turn I feel like detail rp lends itself REALLY well to one on one - less 'filler' of other people's posts and letting each of you delve into thoughts and emotions and mental reactions better simulates an actual conversation than focusing solely on the speech for rapid back and forth IMO. I mean yeah, in a real conversation I don't spend 3 minutes thinking about my hair and how it flows in the wind before responding to a question about what I think about the cruelty of man and how that applies to Frankenstein's message, but if someone asks me a question there are a number of things that pass through my mind in varying detail - reactions to the question directly, having to think about an answer based on my experiences or knowledge, but plenty of other stuff as well. Maybe the breeze picked up a bit, maybe I step in gum and try not to show it, maybe I'm also thinking about a character I was working on back at home. People talk differently - with accents that make it hard to understand some words (I'm REALLY bad with accents lol), with verbal tics, or using one word and then going back to change it.
Honestly there's a LOT of stuff that goes into a response - it typically happens fairly fast in a real conversation, few seconds or less much of the time, but detailed RP is a way to emulate that imo. I find it more 'real' than "I respond negatively" or whatever fluffed up fancy version of that you want to use.
Of course HOW MUCH of that you include and how long the speech section of that is can push it beyond believability or into awkwardness, it depends a lot on the setting and the character - I tend to play fairly wordy characters but typically speaking most posts won't have more than a few sentences of actual speech unless it's an academic debate in-character (which... happens a lot with some friends lmao) - but crafting the surroundings and background of those is what makes it more than just generic speech imo.
QuirkyAngel
White Masquerade's Blue Oni
As a detailed rper, I wholly agree with you. I'm addicted to groups though. Rather than just feeding off the ideas of one person, I want to feed off the ideas of many. I'm greedy like that
Tabby
Derpsichord
Nothing wrong with that! I do it as well in moderation, but I enjoy 1x1 so much that's where most of my attention goes. Get a good partner and... mmmh.As a detailed rper, I wholly agree with you. I'm addicted to groups though. Rather than just feeding off the ideas of one person, I want to feed off the ideas of many. I'm greedy like that
Bone2pick
Minority of One
In my experience detailed roleplays have greater amounts of character development, world development, and complex conflicts. That's why I prefer them.
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Killigrew
Magnificent Humanicorn
How not? Could you explain?
I kind of explained why I think that; why do you think differently?
Usually the positive or negative of it will be implied rather than stated. Like if a guy were to say, "Stop there, and say no further. You're grating me ears down to the bone." etc, etc, it's more outward and therefore more for the character to work with than an internal monologue posted after the fact. I kind of feel like I shouldn't need to explain that -- was it obvious to you? Maybe I missed your point??
I think that's all either established prior to the conversation and/or implied in the conversation, which I much prefer. Agatha Christie is one of my favorite authors, and she is very good at keeping a story organized; that is a beauty of its own. Each detail in its place, each piece of information in its time.
It's a pleasure talking and replying to one so quick to understand, listen, and consider what I'm saying!
I can see planned RP as being a good way to keep the writing organized and pretty without losing character agency in interaction, but yeah, like you said, it comes at the cost of that nail-biting suspense!! Since that's half the fun for me, I've only planned stuff out at a minimum.
EDIT: Actually it's more like I tend to plan out goals rather than interaction by interaction. Something like 'let's make these two have a sibling relationship' after the reaction starts, or 'My teacher is gonna be murdered and we're gonna search for the culprit but my character is gonna blame yours,' that kinda thing. I gave interaction by interaction more thought and I guess it wouldn't be so bad; the suspense would be more in the planning than the RPing is all.
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Bone2pick
Minority of One
Please quote where you explained why you think so. I might have missed it.
