Other Minimum post lengths

[Uncultured]

I would like to point out the obviously forgotten fact here that this is a thread on posting minimums- this is, the previously agreed to conditions for posting. So unless what you're implying is that it's inherently wrong to want longer more detailed posts than what just "gets the point across" , then this person does have to match the length because they compromised to certain minimums

Ive never seen a 6 paragraph minimum.

The person I replied to said that they want to see equal length in the replies to their posts. If the reply is much shorter than they feel that theyre time and effort is disrespected.

They also said that avg post length for them is 3-12 paragraphs, far above most minimums, so thats not really the subject there, just talking about this guys preferences and dislike for replies shorter than his OP.

 

[Idea]

I don't think we have to be discussing minimum post lengths in those terms. For the most part, the conversation carried past the given 'right' a GM has to restrict or enforce upon his players a sleu of subjective laws and stepped into the territory of wisdom. Is it necessary, useful, and healthy for an RP to have minimum post lengths?

Yes, I understand that. However, Uncultured said that the other person had no obligation to make a longer post just because the other did in RESPONSE to a comment which was referring to a situation where the limits were already established. Hence, any talk of "right" needs to take into account that in the hypothetical scenario being considered the other person had already agreed to the posting minimum, AKA nobody was being forced into a roleplay minimum they didn't agree to so yes the person in that scenario should in fact have posted a longer reply, because they , again, had agreed to make those longer replies. Hence, the only way for them to be justified in doing so would be for the desire for longer replies to be inherently wrong.

Ive never seen a 6 paragraph minimum.

The person I replied to said that they want to see equal length in the replies to their posts. If the reply is much shorter than they feel that theyre time and effort is disrespected.

They also said that avg post length for them is 3-12 paragraphs, far above most minimums, so thats not really the subject there, just talking about this guys preferences and dislike for replies shorter than his OP.

So, to reiterate (am I spelling that correctly?) , the person says "I don't like when the other person's posts can't keep up with mine, so I support posting minimums as they help eliminate instances where that happens" and your response is that the other person had the right to make a four sentence response, which was never denied as a right to begin with.

 

[Uncultured]

Yes, I understand that. However, Uncultured said that the other person had no obligation to make a longer post just because the other did in RESPONSE to a comment which was referring to a situation where the limits were already established. Hence, any talk of "right" needs to take into account that in the hypothetical scenario being considered the other person had already agreed to the posting minimum, AKA nobody was being forced into a roleplay minimum they didn't agree to so yes the person in that scenario should in fact have posted a longer reply, because they , again, had agreed to make those longer replies. Hence, the only way for them to be justified in doing so would be for the desire for longer replies to be inherently wrong.


So, to reiterate (am I spelling that correctly?) , the person says "I don't like when the other person's posts can't keep up with mine, so I support posting minimums as they help eliminate instances where that happens" and your response is that the other person had the right to make a four sentence response, which was never denied as a right to begin with.

If someone says that an occurance bothers them, then it is safe to assume that an occurance like that has happenned.

"I hate it when people inturrupt me" is only said by people who have been inturrupted, for example.

Therefore it stands to reason that people have posted "short" replies (3 paragraphs or less) to this guys longer posts at 3+ paragraphs.

Because of that, this person is saying that it bothers them when this happens.

To those occurences I am responding.

You're reading into this way too much, relax.

 

[Idea]

If someone says that an occurance bothers them, then it is safe to assume that an occurance like that has happenned.

"I hate it when people inturrupt me" is only said by people who have been inturrupted, for example.

Therefore it stands to reason that people have posted "short" replies (3 paragraphs or less) to this guys longer posts at 3+ paragraphs.

Because of that, this person is saying that it bothers them when this happens.

To those occurences I am responding.

You're reading into this way too much, relax.

Very well then. That's not what your post read though. So I see your intentions now, and I admit my mistake there, but your wording of that also needs some work

 

[myfanwy]

Dog, no one is gonna read 12 paragraphs, 95% of people will TLR even if it's professional quality.

Posts should be as long as they need to be in order to get the point across without compromising the english language. If someone replies with three sentences to your four patagraphs, and it doesn't get in the way of the story miving forward, then it isn't a problem.

And its not the 4 sentence persons fault that you wrote 6 paragraphs, they shouldnt have to match your post length.

This coming from a super wordy poster as well.

dog, this is why i only rp with a select few people and make those super long posts.
when role playing with others, i tone it down.
nowhere did i say "i only write twelve paragraphs."

as for it not being the other person's fault, i disagree. if you had talked in ooc chat before, agreed on matching post lengths or at least above a certain minimum, and they post four sentences, then i find it a tad disrespectful. when i search for a new rp partner, i usually want to find someone who agrees with mirroring post length and setting the limit for what it too little and what is too wordy.

let me highlight my main point in case you tl ; dr this one: while yes it can seem condescending for someone to not want to role play with someone else based off of post length, it's all personal interest.

edit: i responded late, oops, i'm still titled, oopsx2

 

[Uncultured]

dog, this is why i only rp with a select few people and make those super long posts.
when role playing with others, i tone it down.
nowhere did i say "i only write twelve paragraphs."

as for it not being the other person's fault, i disagree. if you had talked in ooc chat before, agreed on matching post lengths or at least above a certain minimum, and they post four sentences, then i find it a tad disrespectful. when i search for a new rp partner, i usually want to find someone who agrees with mirroring post length and setting the limit for what it too little and what is too wordy.

let me highlight my main point in case you tl ; dr this one: while yes it can seem condescending for someone to not want to role play with someone else based off of post length, it's all personal interest.

edit: i responded late, oops, i'm still titled, oopsx2

Understandable, the 12 paragraph thing was just me being a troll. I just think caring about length is weird, content is mpre important and if anything, I think very long posts lead to a slow pace that can kill RPs.

Ive seen RPs that last a long time and Ive seen RPs that require long ass posts, Ive never seen a long lasting RP that requires big ass posts cause it's a momentum and pacing killer. When every mundane sentence someone says is surrounded on both sides by 2 paragraphs of observation, reflection, flashbacks, judgements and body language it makes for a super, super slow pace.

On the other hand, long posts are good for entries that focus only on the posters character. When you dont have to worry about interacting with other people, posting a lot of content can be a great way of furthering the story and fleshibg out your character, but interacting posts should actually have a length limit of two paragraphs because once you get past that it becomes a lot of empty words, monologues where a character drones on and on and on and also it can lead to some godmodding/bunnying.

 

[myfanwy]

I think very long posts lead to a slow pace that can kill RPs

the key phrase in that sentence is this: "i think".
which only leads me to repeat myself: personal preference.

i love slow paced role plays as i'm very busy in real life. some people like faster paced role plays, which is why it wouldn't make sense for me to seek someone with that preference out. if you have two people who like slower paced rps, then it works out and can last for a long time

 

[Uncultured]

the key phrase in that sentence is this: "i think".
which only leads me to repeat myself: personal preference.

i love slow paced role plays as i'm very busy in real life. some people like faster paced role plays, which is why it wouldn't make sense for me to seek someone with that preference out. if you have two people who like slower paced rps, then it works out and can last for a long time

Ok thats just a nitpick. Long posts do equal slow pace, its not an I think thing, it just does. In a 1x1 maybe that works, but good luck keeping a group RP alive when dialogue posts are five paragraphs long, it'll never happen, ever, go look at the RPs that have 100+ pages, I guarantee that 95/100 of these will have posts ranging from a couple of lines (for interactive posts) and several paragraphs (for solo posts or initiating/observational posts).

 

[Uncultured]

the key phrase in that sentence is this: "i think".
which only leads me to repeat myself: personal preference.

i love slow paced role plays as i'm very busy in real life. some people like faster paced role plays, which is why it wouldn't make sense for me to seek someone with that preference out. if you have two people who like slower paced rps, then it works out and can last for a long time

Im not even knocking long posts, go look at my post history, I overwrite. I've just realized that having a group RP where posts must be several paragraphs is basically asking for it to die before hitting three pages.

 

[Idea]

Ok thats just a nitpick. Long posts do equal slow pace, its not an I think thing, it just does. In a 1x1 maybe that works, but good luck keeping a group RP alive when dialogue posts are five paragraphs long, it'll never happen, ever, go look at the RPs that have 100+ pages, I guarantee that 95/100 of these will have posts ranging from a couple of lines (for interactive posts) and several paragraphs (for solo posts or initiating/observational posts).

With the added bonus of players that keep switching in and out of the RP and the absolute lack of a cohesive story-line.

Yes, detailed RPs die more often. However, having GMed dozens of RPs like that, I gurantee you the ones killing those RPs are always the people who don't like long posts to begin with. People who ignored the rules and posting minimum and only went there blindly for the craving. That's the kind of people who kill those long RPs, because that's the kind of people who worries less about the quality and more about the pacing. People who are already used to playing in more casual rapid-fire rps

 

[myfanwy]

Uncultured ; i don't think you're listening (can you listen to something written online?): some people like slow paced. if you don't, that's fine. i'm not going to look at your post history because that's ridiculous. if you like fast paced, that's fine, just understand that some people like slower paced. p e r s o n a l p r e f e r e n c e

honestly that's what my original post in this thread was getting at, and some people take it as a grave offense. i don't like fast paced, sue me.

 

[Uncultured]

With the added bonus of players that keep switching in and out of the RP and the absolute lack of a cohesive story-line.

Yes, detailed RPs die more often. However, having GMed dozens of RPs like that, I gurantee you the ones killing those RPs are always the people who don't like long posts to begin with. People who ignored the rules and posting minimum and only went there blindly for the craving. That's the kind of people who kill those long RPs, because that's the kind of people who worries less about the quality and more about the pacing. People who are already used to playing in more casual rapid-fire rps

I agree that casuals do kill the super detailed RPs, but at the same time they can collapse on thier own weight.

Ive been in super high density RPs where the GM asked for writing samples, where posts were 4 paragraphs or more, with intricate lore and world building. Everyone was at least a solid writer capable of long posts. It had evetything needed for success as a detailed RP.

Didnt make it 5 pages lol.

I just think the demand of it taxes people beyond a point where it's enjoyable.

Posting long, detailed posts is great, if people want to do that then fine. The issue is forcing everyone to write four paragraphs a post when the same plot advancement can come from a five sentence post. Thats when they collapse under their weight.

Also the workload that goes into reading all the long ass posts hurts success rate. Not only do you need to write and proofread four or more paragraphs a post, but you also need to read a metric shit ton of content every day. For one RP, it can end up being 2+ hours a day.

I do wish that detailed RPs were more durable, but so far the success rate of detailed RPs that Ive been in (30+) is zero percent (never made 10 pages or more will be the metric).

 

[Uncultured]

Uncultured ; i don't think you're listening (can you listen to something written online?): some people like slow paced. if you don't, that's fine. i'm not going to look at your post history because that's ridiculous. if you like fast paced, that's fine, just understand that some people like slower paced. p e r s o n a l p r e f e r e n c e

honestly that's what my original post in this thread was getting at, and some people take it as a grave offense. i don't like fast paced, sue me.

Thats fine, Im saying that slow pace in a group RP leads to drop off in interest and drop off in interest leads to dead RPs. Ive seen this dozens of times. In a small group it can work but in larger group RPs a slower pace is death. You need people posting at least 1 time or 2 times a day to maintain a group RP and good luck doing that when posts must adhere to high length requirements.

If you mean small RPs then again, it can work. A 1x1 or a three person group can work, just cant see it in a large group setting which is what I am interested in.

 

[Bone2pick]

Didnt make it 5 pages lol.

I'll happily take four pages of carefully planned, detailed, and ambitious posts over any number of pages in a two paragraph or less RP. There's simply not enough meat on the bone for me. To each their own though.

 

[Uncultured]

I'll happily take four pages of carefully planned, detailed, and ambitious posts over any number of pages in a two paragraph or less RP. There's simply not enough meat on the bone for me. To each their own though.

Those four pages encompased maybe 10 hours of in world time. Also all the posts were five paragraphs or more, one of mine was ten paragraphs lol what the hell, no wonder it failed.

Personally I prefer detail but I've come to realize that a strictly detailed group RP is bound to fail.

I dont advocate for ignorant crappy one line casual weeboo "SENPAIIIIII KUUUUN" RPs, I do however advocate for user freedom to post based on context not on a cookie cutter ruleset about length.

If someone asks my character how he is doing, Im not going to write up an essay about how the sky is azure with silver traces of a clouds memory, not gonna ramble about what he ate for breakfast, nor will I deeply analyze "hey man, how you been?" Like its a philosophic question.

If you can't trust your members to write according to context, why would you trust them to write cohesive 2000 word posts?

 

[rae2nerdy]

Also in fairness I don't think post length kills detailed groups. I think it's lack of organization that kills detailed groups ( and really any roleplay in general ).

As eden says - post length is just a preference, as is how often people post. To make a roleplay last you have to have people who are dedicated and some kind of organization in place to keep the story moving forward. Posting has nothing to do with either of those things.

I've been in long lasting roleplays before with detailed posting requirements ( I believe at least three paragraphs but I'd have to look back and find them to be sure ).

And the reason the roleplays lasted where because the players where invested, they communicated in the OOC, and in one case the GM had a posting schedule. In the other they just used time skips to move on when they got stuck.

 

[Idea]

I agree that casuals do kill the super detailed RPs, but at the same time they can collapse on thier own weight.

Ive been in super high density RPs where the GM asked for writing samples, where posts were 4 paragraphs or more, with intricate lore and world building. Everyone was at least a solid writer capable of long posts. It had evetything needed for success as a detailed RP.

Didnt make it 5 pages lol.

I just think the demand of it taxes people beyond a point where it's enjoyable.

Posting long, detailed posts is great, if people want to do that then fine. The issue is forcing everyone to write four paragraphs a post when the same plot advancement can come from a five sentence post. Thats when they collapse under their weight.

Also the workload that goes into reading all the long ass posts hurts success rate. Not only do you need to write and proofread four or more paragraphs a post, but you also need to read a metric shit ton of content every day. For one RP, it can end up being 2+ hours a day.

I do wish that detailed RPs were more durable, but so far the success rate of detailed RPs that Ive been in (30+) is zero percent (never made 10 pages or more will be the metric).

Yes, it takes more work. Again, that's precisely why posting requirements have a point in existing. It's supposed to filter those people out who don't want to do that, who don't want that kind of detail in their RPs. I'm gonna assume that you're basing what you're saying off more than ONE RP, but nonetheless, I think you're still missing the point I'm trying to make here.

We both agree that detailed RPs are far less durable than non-detailed ones and that big requirements contribute to the loss of pacing and more work, which reduces interest. However, we disagree on the cause. Because not everyone is solely interested in pacing, and not everyone is solely interested in cravings or anything else that is so flimsy. There are people who come prepared to take their time but deliver on solid large content, which isn't to say it's easy.

You think the problem is based on the high demands of detailed roleplaying that causes the demise of these RPs. However, I would like to argue that the problem and fault is on the hands of those that ignore those very demands. People who don't take the time to understand their own limits or their own skill. I bet you I can write a five paragraph story about a man taking one step out of a door without a man taking a single irrelevant detail. Because action isn't all that's important, characterization and foreshadowing, blocking, thematic exploration, or even just tone all have importance in the detailed mindset, however this is a rare mindst, far rarer than the population of "detailed" Rpers. A lot of people claim they like these things but aren't actually looking foward to them. A lot of people claim they want to make higher posts, but aren't actually accoutning for the fact that it isn't easy.

And that is what I think is the real cause of the issue. The demand is warning sign for the edge of a cliff, and the sign isn't broken or blackeneed, but people look at it then keep walking towards the cliff. And frankly, that's because we can't build a fence. We detailed RPers aren't jerks by nature, so we aren't interested in banning people who want to join us and help us make our RPs, but leaving that fairness means that what we can use is just warning, just lights to clue people in to the fact that "yeah, this is gonna be hard and a lot of work, so if you don't want to join knowing this, just don't"

And you know what? Even as the GM of a now about 9 months old, maybe year old detailed RP that for most of it's run was demanding two paragraphs minimum plus content minimum and highly detailed CSs, I know that even know I stamped warnings in everyother corner of my RP explicitly stating that it was gonna be complex, rule-heavy and hard work, often bolding and increasing the font size of those warnings, many people would come in and then complain about the posting requirements and other rules which they'd agreed with not a week prior. And that's just the latest example.



Long story short to a detailed writer "I'm losing motivation" or "It's been going too slow" are not excuses not to push because we come in aware of the needs of detailed writing which are the simple natural consequence of writing. But in detailed RPs, many rpers aren't actually detailed writers, they just happened to have an interest in the roleplay and they joined without considering whether they could sustain it. Then, as they left, the empty left by their presence no longer being , well, present, results in a structural gap, which in turn can throw some RPs into chaos, usually fixable, but then the problem starts expanding as other roleplayers suddenly realize that "shockingly" cravings don't last very long in a set where you have to work for them. And the RP dies.

In pratice detailed roleplays die, but it's not them being detailed that is the issue, is that they aren't fully detailed.

 

[Bone2pick]

Those four pages encompased maybe 10 hours of in world time.

As a detailed roleplayer I can get a lot done in four pages. I could complete an entire solo arc assuming everyone's pacing matches mine. And whenever I produce content I'm proud of I don't consider my stint in the RP a waste.

 

[Uncultured]

Yes, it takes more work. Again, that's precisely why posting requirements have a point in existing. It's supposed to filter those people out who don't want to do that, who don't want that kind of detail in their RPs. I'm gonna assume that you're basing what you're saying off more than ONE RP, but nonetheless, I think you're still missing the point I'm trying to make here.

We both agree that detailed RPs are far less durable than non-detailed ones and that big requirements contribute to the loss of pacing and more work, which reduces interest. However, we disagree on the cause. Because not everyone is solely interested in pacing, and not everyone is solely interested in cravings or anything else that is so flimsy. There are people who come prepared to take their time but deliver on solid large content, which isn't to say it's easy.

You think the problem is based on the high demands of detailed roleplaying that causes the demise of these RPs. However, I would like to argue that the problem and fault is on the hands of those that ignore those very demands. People who don't take the time to understand their own limits or their own skill. I bet you I can write a five paragraph story about a man taking one step out of a door without a man taking a single irrelevant detail. Because action isn't all that's important, characterization and foreshadowing, blocking, thematic exploration, or even just tone all have importance in the detailed mindset, however this is a rare mindst, far rarer than the population of "detailed" Rpers. A lot of people claim they like these things but aren't actually looking foward to them. A lot of people claim they want to make higher posts, but aren't actually accoutning for the fact that it isn't easy.

And that is what I think is the real cause of the issue. The demand is warning sign for the edge of a cliff, and the sign isn't broken or blackeneed, but people look at it then keep walking towards the cliff. And frankly, that's because we can't build a fence. We detailed RPers aren't jerks by nature, so we aren't interested in banning people who want to join us and help us make our RPs, but leaving that fairness means that what we can use is just warning, just lights to clue people in to the fact that "yeah, this is gonna be hard and a lot of work, so if you don't want to join knowing this, just don't"

And you know what? Even as the GM of a now about 9 months old, maybe year old detailed RP that for most of it's run was demanding two paragraphs minimum plus content minimum and highly detailed CSs, I know that even know I stamped warnings in everyother corner of my RP explicitly stating that it was gonna be complex, rule-heavy and hard work, often bolding and increasing the font size of those warnings, many people would come in and then complain about the posting requirements and other rules which they'd agreed with not a week prior. And that's just the latest example.



Long story short to a detailed writer "I'm losing motivation" or "It's been going too slow" are not excuses not to push because we come in aware of the needs of detailed writing which are the simple natural consequence of writing. But in detailed RPs, many rpers aren't actually detailed writers, they just happened to have an interest in the roleplay and they joined without considering whether they could sustain it. Then, as they left, the empty left by their presence no longer being , well, present, results in a structural gap, which in turn can throw some RPs into chaos, usually fixable, but then the problem starts expanding as other roleplayers suddenly realize that "shockingly" cravings don't last very long in a set where you have to work for them. And the RP dies.

In pratice detailed roleplays die, but it's not them being detailed that is the issue, is that they aren't fully detailed.

You make good points, I dont disagree. I think that we just come from two different perspectives. Im a little more cynical and think that its just about impossible to get a roster of writers who are really down with the details like that, where as you have more hope.

And yeah, its more than 1 RP. I have been in 25+ detailed RPs and GMd several and every time, without fail, it has been an absolute waste of my time. Ive made RPs with hand drawn maps, mission boards giving people sandbox freedom, but at the same time having a main story mission. In one there were 20 fleshed out NPCs (20 fucking NPCs all with character sheets.... seriously), loot drops based on dice, a travel system, and AND it was all easy to digest because Im a gamer and understand how to keep unnecessary complexity out of a game or (in this case) RP.

DIDNT MAKE IT THREE PAGES

GMed a couple others, went more middle of the road, detail/casual hybrid, got more success. Was the story as beatiful as some detailed RPs? No, there were a few holes in the story, but at least there was a story, not just five pages of introductions and basoc observations before inevitable radio silence.

All that said, if you can make a detailed RP work, then all the power to you & send me an invite.

 

[Idea]

You make good points, I dont disagree. I think that we just come from two different perspectives. Im a little more cynical and think that its just about impossible to get a roster of writers who are really down with the details like that, where as you have more hope.

And yeah, its more than 1 RP. I have been in 25+ detailed RPs and GMd several and every time, without fail, it has been an absolute waste of my time. Ive made RPs with hand drawn maps, mission boards giving people sandbox freedom, but at the same time having a main story mission. In one there were 20 fleshed out NPCs (20 fucking NPCs all with character sheets.... seriously), loot drops based on dice, a travel system, and AND it was all easy to digest because Im a gamer and understand how to keep unnecessary complexity out of a game or (in this case) RP.

DIDNT MAKE IT THREE PAGES

GMed a couple others, went more middle of the road, detail/casual hybrid, got more success. Was the story as beatiful as some detailed RPs? No, there were a few holes in the story, but at least there was a story, not just five pages of introductions and basoc observations before inevitable radio silence.

All that said, if you can make a detailed RP work, then all the power to you & send me an invite.

Maybe it is as you said and we're just coming from two different perspectives. I wouldn't say I have more hope. Given the trend in my responses I would say I'm more of the kind who prefers to adress the underlying problem rather than the surface one, as I am someone who prefers to cut problems by the root. That said, I am splitting waters a bit, since most underlying issues, at least as far as my conclusions go, steem from people's attitudes towards certain topics, and their mentality, two things which I couldn't possibly hope to change but still try.

Now in that response and arguments there were a whole bunch of things I would disagree with veemently, some on basis of opinion, others from the poor construction of the argument, but I'll stick to the more positive idea this time since we're pretty much already super derrailed from the main topic.

And that idea would be that if you feel like you're wasting your time, then there is one more solution that myself and others, like it would seem Bone2pick have chosen to take. That path is to create what we create for the sake of itself. Rather than quitting on detailed because it doesn't finish, we or at least I focus on trying to make sure everything I do is something I won't regret having done. That it has value on it's own such that even if does go nowhere, it was still worth my time to make. And that, I think, is a beauty I can't get outside of detailed, despite it only composing one of my reasons why that is my preferred style.

 

[Killigrew]

Heya Bone2pick my good friend (=u =

Im not even knocking long posts, go look at my post history, I overwrite. I've just realized that having a group RP where posts must be several paragraphs is basically asking for it to die before hitting three pages.

Heyyy I made it to nine pages once!

You're pretty much right by and large, though. While in some rare cases everyone is willing to just deal with it and keep posting, by and large long posts kill pace and motivation. A post ought to incite a response, and you'd have to have a pretty awesome idea for 12 paragraphs to incite a response rather than a yawn (that's exaggeration lol. I really mean they largely incite a lot of work and effort to get back into your character after). And awesome ideas don't come every day!

 

[Uncultured]

Maybe it is as you said and we're just coming from two different perspectives. I wouldn't say I have more hope. Given the trend in my responses I would say I'm more of the kind who prefers to adress the underlying problem rather than the surface one, as I am someone who prefers to cut problems by the root. That said, I am splitting waters a bit, since most underlying issues, at least as far as my conclusions go, steem from people's attitudes towards certain topics, and their mentality, two things which I couldn't possibly hope to change but still try.

Now in that response and arguments there were a whole bunch of things I would disagree with veemently, some on basis of opinion, others from the poor construction of the argument, but I'll stick to the more positive idea this time since we're pretty much already super derrailed from the main topic.

And that idea would be that if you feel like you're wasting your time, then there is one more solution that myself and others, like it would seem Bone2pick have chosen to take. That path is to create what we create for the sake of itself. Rather than quitting on detailed because it doesn't finish, we or at least I focus on trying to make sure everything I do is something I won't regret having done. That it has value on it's own such that even if does go nowhere, it was still worth my time to make. And that, I think, is a beauty I can't get outside of detailed, despite it only composing one of my reasons why that is my preferred style.

I dont really see how my arguments have holes considering that, unlike your theory, my argument has basis in proof. Dont really see why you have to throw shots when sustaining a detailed RP is done maybe 1/100 times because of the reasons I am stating.

I try to give credit and get hit with pretentiousness lol. Alright then.

Your theory has no basis in fact, never seen it done once in practise.

You say thay my argument is wrong because, while what I say is true for most people, there are some that are willing to put a lot of work in.

By admitting that most RPers are too lazy for detail heavy RPs and that detailed RPs fail to provide the instant gratification that many people crave, you already concede that sustaining a detailed RP is very difficult. Your counter to this is to just "weed people out in the recruiting phase"

My rebuttal, this website has 20k members. Under 10k active, half stick to 1x1 or small scale RPs with only a few people, so the pool of RPers that you can get off interest checks is what? A few thousand? Now cut out all the people that dont have it in them to post detail heavy stuff for long periods of time and we have several hundred, now divide that by a few because a lot of people stick to one or two types of RP. So when making a RP in modern setting for example, which is underpopulated by comp to the rest of the site, you might have 50-75 RPers SITEWIDE that will actually post detailed stuff for the long haul. So its not nearly as easy as it seems. Furthermore, it's damn near impossible to predict who will stay and who will drop and once a couple people drop it becomes very hard to compensate and generally leads to a reboot.

At the end of the day, the OBVIOUS truth is that people will participate in an RP if they find it enjoyable and will drop if it's not, and for the vast majority, writing like Tolstoy and reading essays just to move the plot forward by one day is not enjoyable at all, not because they are idiots but because that shit is boring unless you have a serious investment in the plot which most will not have.

Its not impossible to have a sustainable detailed RP, but it has a high degree of difficulty and blind luck needs to be on your side. Under 5% of detailed RPs ever make it ten pages, let alone 100+ where the percentage is less than 1%. Just look around the website. You make it sound so easy but the track record says otherwise.

Also, long and detailed posts are objectively worse for interactions because they look stupid. Ive seen full monologues written in response to one line of dialogue because a writer is space filling and thisnis very common. Quick lines of dialogue are far more believable and natural than someone going on for 1000 words in response to "hey whats up" creating strict limits is the same anti common-sense bullshit that Common Core and Home Owners Associations are built on.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Uncultured Been reading along and I am a little confused. Maybe you clarified this at some point but when you're talking detailed posts how do you define that? Like are you talking a post that is three paragraphs, a post that is a page, a post that is over one paragraph?

Because I have seen detailed roleplays that lasted a long time ( some several years, some at least a few months ) and usually three paragraphs or thereabout was the minimum with four paragraphs being like the average post length. Some people might write more but usually no one wrote less than three paragraphs.

Now those roleplays were exceptions it's true and I think their success had more to do with dedicated core of roleplayers and an organized GM. But as I remember it none of them suffered from a detailed ( as defined by this site at least ) post requirement of three paragraphs per post.

Now if your talking more like advanced literate ( a phrase on a previous site ) where something like five paragraphs is the minimum amount allowed per post than yeah I can see where your coming from.

 

[Uncultured]

Uncultured Been reading along and I am a little confused. Maybe you clarified this at some point but when you're talking detailed posts how do you define that? Like are you talking a post that is three paragraphs, a post that is a page, a post that is over one paragraph?

Because I have seen detailed roleplays that lasted a long time ( some several years, some at least a few months ) and usually three paragraphs or thereabout was the minimum with four paragraphs being like the average post length. Some people might write more but usually no one wrote less than three paragraphs.

Now those roleplays were exceptions it's true and I think their success had more to do with dedicated core of roleplayers and an organized GM. But as I remember it none of them suffered from a detailed ( as defined by this site at least ) post requirement of three paragraphs per post.

Now if your talking more like advanced literate ( a phrase on a previous site ) where something like five paragraphs is the minimum amount allowed per post than yeah I can see where your coming from.

My perspective is coming from the interest check world.

Getting a good core of people from the recruiting section that will stick for months in a low brow setting is like winning the lottery.

Getting a good core of people from the recruiting section that will stick for months in a detailed setting is like finding the holy grail.

My definition of a GM determined "detailed" RP is three solid paragraphs per post as a requirement, 18-20 sentences. I've never seen one go for more than a couple weeks and I've been in over 40 of them. On the other hand the casual RPs, that I hate, go for months.

The best types of RP imo (the best for survivability with a satisfying story) are comprehensive, both casual and detailed. Be detailed when appropriate, be casual with only a few lines when appropriate, always try be grammatically correct.

I think that common sense should always be trusted over a one size fits all rule that leads to ridiculous shit like writing four paragraphs to describe one move in combat.

I dont need to read about the temperature of the room, a flashback, a detailed description of muscle movement, and the desired effect of a punch. Just throw the damn punch and let me react to it in kind, imo thats more fun than trying to write flowery prose for an hour just to convey 3 seconds of movement, kills pace too and yeah, pace is important in a group RP, especially when everyone might be waiting on one guy to post.

 

[rae2nerdy]

My perspective is coming from the interest check world.

Getting a good core of people from the recruiting section that will stick for months in a low brow setting is like winning the lottery.

Getting a good core of people from the recruiting section that will stick for months in a detailed setting is like finding the holy grail.

My definition of a GM determined "detailed" RP is three solid paragraphs per post as a requirement, 18-20 sentences. I've never seen one go for more than a couple weeks and I've been in over 40 of them. On the other hand the casual RPs, that I hate, go for months.

The best types of RP imo (the best for survivability with a satisfying story) are comprehensive, both casual and detailed. Be detailed when appropriate, be casual with only a few lines when appropriate, always try be grammatically correct.

I think that common sense should always be trusted over a one size fits all rule that leads to ridiculous shit like writing four paragraphs to describe one move in combat.

I dont need to read about the temperature of the room, a flashback, a detailed description of muscle movement, and the desired effect of a punch. Just throw the damn punch and let me react to it in kind, imo thats more fun than trying to write flowery prose for an hour just to convey 3 seconds of movement, kills pace too and yeah, pace is important in a group RP, especially when everyone might be waiting on one guy to post.

Well as I said I have seen detailed roleplay posts as you define them last. It just takes a core group of roleplayer and some organization on behalf of the GM. Now whether or not those things are necessarily common is a different issue entirely.

I think a lot of your issue is with the ORGANIZATION of these roleplays. For instance pacing - pacing is an issue that is often solved by organization in detailed roleplays.

Usually this is done through post schedules or time skips depending on what the GM personally finds the most interesting.

And while you personally might not like a lot of excessive detail that's a personal preference. It doesn't necessarily follow that that is going to be as much of a killer for other people.

Now I'm not trying to invalidate your own personal experience I ( and I believe several of the others ) are just trying to show you that your experience is not necessarily all encompassing to other roleplayers.