Mental Issues

[simj26]

Why, why, why, why, why?


To quote an excerpt from one of my perusals from around the site, and no, I will not name names, and I will change the content slightly so as to avoid being a complete dick,

James has been doing therapy till the day he left to go to university came. Now he has to go to school with a fake smile. Anon

Why do people enjoy writing characters with mental issues? Why do you think it's fun to do that? I've personally never been to therapy before, mainly because I've done things usually by myself, fixed probably all the problems through brute forcing them, so maybe I don't understand things. I will, however, like to say that


1) the nuthouse is not a place you would like to go to and be in. They scream. They hurl insults. They weep and cry all night. It's not very nice. Volunteered in one once. Not a nice place to be.


2) Shrinks are often depicted by many RPers to be absolutely useless. I quote from a reddit thread, "The people here have acknowledged their situation and began to self-reflect. But from my experience with the 10+ therapists I had in my life, all therapists do is restate your feelings and opinions and do not actually come up with solutions to your problems.", so maybe, maybe not, but more often than not, wouldn't other people be able to help? Friends, family? Don't give me that bullshit about how people don't understand you and stuff. There's literally DOZENS of other people online. Look em up.


3) people who play mental issues don't know about these mental issues some of the time. They never do any weightlifting in researching all the ugly stuff about the mental issues, and tend to play it off as some quirky thing characters have. Ooooh, sociopathy, ooooh psychopathy, ooooooh autism, I'm so unique, snowflake status: set. Salt aside, these mental issues almost never come up in the actual RP, or are played extremely horrendously by some writers, without ever actually addressing the character's perspective. They just act 'crazy', and think 'crazy' as depicted on your Saturday television shows.


I might be going off on a tangent there, so let's get back to the railroad. Why?


Why mentally unsound people?


Let me just predict your responses now, shall I? The most common response is...because the writer has suffered these symptoms before, or felt the same before, perhaps even diagnosed with it. And I address this response with "Alright, cool. That's really nice.", in the least sardonic way possible that you can picture me in.


The next is because 'we want to be special snowflakes to be set apart from the common, well-functioning, proper-behaving folk', to which I will reply, in the most sardonic way possible you can picture me in "Alright, cool. That's really nice."


Again, for the umpteenth time, why?

 

[Komaeda]

I'm gonna be up and honest right here. I go to therapy every week, I've been in a mental hospital before, I've been diagnosed with mild Autism, mood regulation disorder, and have been misdiagnosed with Schizophrenia. So when it comes to asylum rp's and such if anyone could actually closely relate it should be me. And personally, if pulled off right I don't see any problems with it.


One of the asylum rp's I was in (I kinda dropped it because of activity reasons) there was a goal to escape the place, and the asylum was more of just a setting for the goal. In this case, there weren't any problems because the people there including myself knew how to be sensible about it and it wasn't just "Oh hey let's play nuthouse like a children's game " type thing.


In the other one that isn't really a primary goal, but it was more of a simulation if anything, and when it comes to these things with asylum rp's and mental disorders, I feel that if the character's creator in question has at least a little knowledge of what they're playing, and are sensible about it, I don't see an issue with it.


In both rp's my character's name is Alice, and she has bipolar and scizhophrenia. As I have hallucinated in the past and MRD is similar to bipolar, I know what I'm working with and if anything I don't go flaunting about with this stuff, as it is meant to be taken seriously, and if I were running an asylum rp, I'd probably give people the boot if they can't take things seriously.


Oh, and one more thing. You don't expect all rp settings to be lalala rainbows and lollipops happy do you? There is a dark side to everything, and these type of roleplays and characters prove that.

 

[Pine]

I think it's obvious when I say a good majority of people are fascinated by the portrayals of the mentally disturbed through media.


Watching a character and watching a person are two different things.


For the average person who hasn't looked into psychological matters beyond what it shown in, say, Psycho or some other show/movie like that, it's an attractive archetype that can make for very interesting scenarios.


These sorts of people will freely throw around the terms "psychopath" and "schizo" without actually having any idea of what they actually mean (schizophrenia is often confused or lumped together with dissociative identity disorder, for example).


For those who have more knowledge about these sorts of things, that's probably through taking their fascination a step further and looking into things for themselves or witnessing it first hand.


Most of these kinds of people, particularly the latter, will be able to portray a more mature version of a character suffering from a mental illness, and they should know that it is NOT something to be taken lightly.


Unfortunately, I would estimate that most of these people are completely ignorant of the true nature of a mental illness.


Modern day, I really hate the term "crazy," because the fact of the matter is that what becomes classified as a mental illness is a man-made category defined by people unable to function in the "norm" and where their behavior can be seen as "disturbing."


Self-diagnosis is discouraged because you cannot possibly have an objective opinion about yourself and using the label of anti-social personality disorder to decorate yourself and become "hip" and "edgy" is very harmful to those actually suffering from these disorders.


Professional diagnosis, however, can be harmful, in particular when it isn't something that medication can "fix", because that affects people's consideration of you for, say, a job that sustaining your life may depend purely upon, consciously or unconsciously.


People may see themselves reflected in a mentally ill person because there is a blurry, thoroughly undefined line between what is sane versus insane (though, technically, there's the DSM, but I haven't personally looked into it, and again, this is all man-made and constantly changing).


I digress.


So, as for the various reasons of why this is so often seen...


Ignorance is one big, MAJOR thing.


People don't know how ugly it can be to live with something like this and it seems like the romanticized versions of these disorders is edgy/fun/whatever.


On a more realistic note, I guess, about half the population of the U.S. (a common setting for modern role plays) is estimated to be living with some kind of anxiety disorder.


Unsurprisingly, however, not a lot of people actually go the "anxiety disorder" route.


Again, most people that do this are not concerned with portraying these things accurately or anything, and anxiety isn't one of the "fun" mental illnesses.


The only special situations this can create are panic attacks and crying a lot, and for those who are just in it for the entertainment value, this probably isn't the kind of thing that people are going for.


Instead, people tend to go for the aforementioned schizophrenia/DID which, in contrast, have been statistically VERY uncommon.


Another reason might be that "reflection in myself" kind of thing.


I'm drawing blanks here, but I think the gist of what I'm trying to say is that oftentimes people don't know what they're talking about and they're just in it for the entertainment value.


To those people I plead, I don't mind characters with mental disorders, but please please please take it seriously, do your research, and don't just slap it on your character as a decoration.


This post is a mess.


Edit: I'd also like to point out that a lot of friends, family etc. do a shit job of "helping" these people out.


My approximation of common phrases to be found are as follows:


"It's over now, be happy!"


"Stop being lazy, just get out of bed."


"Stop saying sorry."


And a little sexist treat for the boys:


"Men don't cry."


Professionals are professionals for a reason.


Most people don't know what they're talking about.


It's just... not that easy.

 

[The One Called X]

Mostly, for me, it's a way to... not add depth, but give them something to struggle with and overcome. Every character needs something like that to be interesting; and every character will have a different thing that suits that purpose for them. For some characters it's social awkwardness, for some it's an unpleasant past, for some it's being really naive, and for some it'll be mental illness. It depends on who they are and what their situation is.


As far as the dismissal of shrinks and therapy goes... yeah, that does kinda bug me. It makes sense if maybe the character might have to go through a few different therapists and medications to find what works, or if your character is convinced that no one understands them and they're on their own, but don't just dismiss it out of hand. There's people out there who really do want to help. Family and friends... again, it depends on the character.


I just created a character who's struggling with depression (which you may have seen... heh). Depression is something I've dealt with/am dealing with (though nowhere near as severe as this character's), so I feel like it's a good place for me to start with learning how to write mentally unstable characters in a respectful, empathetic way. I also feel like it'll be an interesting exercise to write her journey to accepting, dealing with, and working around her depression. I don't want her to be a special snowflake, and I don't think that she should be interesting or sympathetic just because she's depressed. I want her to be interesting and sympathetic because of how she learns to deal with it and come back to herself.

 

[JayTee]

Because they want to be "exotic" or "unique' or otherwise special, or simply have a character trait that makes them stand out, in place of actually putting the work in to developed characters.


Which in turn, is grossly disrespectful towards people who actually have these issues.


Really, I blame Hollywood and it's fetishization of mental disorders, but at least it's better than how it used to be, where everyone with a mental disorder was locked up in an asylum or treated like some kind of pariah.

 

[simj26]

I'm gonna be up and honest right here. I go to therapy every week, I've been in a mental hospital before, I've been diagnosed with mild Autism, mood regulation disorder, and have been misdiagnosed with Schizophrenia. So when it comes to asylum rp's and such if anyone could actually closely relate it should be me.
.

And I address this response with "Alright, cool. That's really nice.", in the least sardonic way possible that you can picture me in.

Because they want to be "exotic" or "unique' or otherwise special, or simply have a character trait that makes them stand out, in place of actually putting the work in to developed characters.

to which I will reply, in the most sardonic way possible you can picture me in "Alright, cool. That's really nice."

Oh, and one more thing. You don't expect all rp settings to be lalala rainbows and lollipops happy do you? There is a dark side to everything, and these type of roleplays and characters prove that.

I don't remember saying this. Did I say this in the post? I think you might have to re-read the rant post. I have never expressed any wishes about things having to be completely sunshine and rainbows, ladybugs awake. If you perhaps, maybe, just maybe, take another look, you can see that I have not put words in between the lines that imply I want everything to be beautiful and nice, and perhaps I am focusing more of why the fuck people want to play mentally ill people without a single clue of the illnesses that plague the other side of the population. Gee, I wonder what gave you THAT impression I was trying to get a happy happy joy joy world? It's not like I haven't taken my own dose of shit in life, right?

Edit: I'd also like to point out that a lot of friends, family etc. do a shit job of "helping" these people out.


My approximation of common phrases to be found are as follows:


"It's over now, be happy!"


"Stop being lazy, just get out of bed."


"Stop saying sorry."


And a little sexist treat for the boys:


"Men don't cry."


Professionals are professionals for a reason.


Most people don't know what they're talking about.


It's just... not that easy.

B<


what the fuck have i been doing for the past few years

 

[JayTee]

Sim ol' buddy ol' pal, I think you may have misunderstood me.


For the most part, I agree with you, I don't see the point in playing those types of characters. I never have, and likely never will.


That said, you are asking "why" people do it, and in my experience people don't really have a reason other than it's They want to be Dexter, or Sherlock from that one TV show, and pretend that being mentally disturbed is somehow equated with being super smart.

 

[Komaeda]

Okay, first off the rainbows and lollipops comment was mostly because I could think of nothing else to wrap up what I said before, cuz I couldn't really leave it off otherwise cuz it looked unfinished. I wasn't trying to put words between the lines it just kind of seemed like you didn't like the darker side of things, and obviously I misunderstood, which is my bad but honestly you didn't have to take it personally. The comment at the top was also just to show that some people actually know what they're talking about, and I'm just gonna be a mature person and not take that offensively. But this is exactly why I don't participate in debates like this. Cuz apparently everyone else likes taking the one thing that could be considered out of place in others posts and using that as the sole reason against them. You wanted my opinion? I gave it, and now I'm gonna unwatch this thread because I feel (key word is I feel) that all that happens is I get shit thrown in my face. Well, I guess life is like that

 

[AlexSilverX]

The two "obvious" answers are the ones you already cover in your post. But there are other factors:

• As Pine said, Ignorance is a big portion of it. Lack of knowledge of the "messed up side" of being... well... "messed up" tends people to lean towards romanticizing being "mental". Though that might be more of the "special snowflake" thing, just another flavor of it.
  
• Another possibility, and really it probably encompasses all the others, is; Why not? A lot of people seek novelty when RPing. An asylum RP could simply be a "Oooh! New setting!" or a "I haven't done that in a while..." or "Huh... never did that before" to some people.
  
• The sad fact of the matter is most people don't even consider the possibility of offending others when RPing, and rightfully so because - for the most part - this isn't freaking tumblr. Writing is where people can explore scenarios regardless of their personal ignorance of what it's "really" like.
  
• And - this is my personal opinion, but I feel it's valid as one of the "potentially offended" - that's cool. So what if their portrayal of the disease isn't accurate? So what if their portrayal of an asylum isn't accurate? Maybe in this particular setting, in that particular RP, it works. In the end, that's what matters.
  
• Heck, I bet if explorers from the olden days saw us RP fantasy where guys fight dragons and find a bunch of cash and loot just laying about, they would tear out their hair screaming "THAT'S TOTALLY NOT WHAT ADVENTURING IS LIKE!" ...well, they probably wouldn't, fantasy has been a part of human culture for as far back as I care to recall. A big part of fantasy is inaccuracy.
  
• This also applies to other domains. I'm, for example, a white, cis-gendered, bisexual, man with a mental disorder. Should I not be allowed to play women? Should I not be allowed to play other ethnicities? Should I not be able to play a cross-dresser? Should I not be able to play a straight or gay person? And - following the opposite logic of this topic's subject matter - should I even be allowed to play a "sane" person?
  

I hope this has helped shed some light on the matter and want to point out a second time that this is my personal opinion on the topic.


Personally - more of my opinion, so "grains of salt" people - I find that today's generation gets offended too easily and overthinks something that is simply a harmless at best and - usually unintentionally - stupid at worst hobby.


If an RP is objectively or subjectively bad, people won't join it.


An example I would like to provide - and finish this post on - is the "Twilight saga".


Now, personally, I hated the series to bits and a big part of that was - aside from the shitty writing, being forced into watching them by my then girlfriend and overall bad acting - the "sparkly vampires" thing (I'm into supernatural stuff a lot, so "breech of folklore" like that drives me nuts and - I still think it - was stupid). But it had a target audience which showed interest and it turned out to be one of the most grossing book and movie series of all time.


My advice for you, to make your life simpler (do with it what you will), is this; Consider it some inane and stupid media aimed at a given crowd which happens not to appeal to your own sensibilities. Think less of those who indulge in it if you want to, think more of yourself for not being guilty of their "crime" if you have to, discuss the problem on the internet as you are doing right now to restore your faith in humanity as needed.


It's really all you can do about it in the end and, when it comes down to it, devoting any more attention to the topic will only be bad for your physical - and perhaps, mental - health.

 

[Pine]

And - this is my personal opinion, but I feel it's valid as one of the "potentially offended" - that's cool. So what if their portrayal of the disease isn't accurate? So what if their portrayal of an asylum isn't accurate? Maybe in this particular setting, in that particular RP, it works. In the end, that's what matters.

Alright, so here's the problem with inaccurate portrayal.


It goes beyond it just being potentially offensive.


The problem is that there's already shit tons of misconceptions with mental illnesses, and someone claiming their character has _____ because they act _____ creates another.


I'm not going to exaggerate the importance of this site and say that a couple of role plays with misrepresentation is going to confuse tens of thousands of people or anything, but with so much misunderstandings going around in the first place, it would be nice to cut back a little and educate a few people instead (no, I don't mean sitting someone down and yelling at them, I mean doing your research/watching someone else give a better feel of what having this disorder is actually like).


When there are misunderstandings of mental illnesses, this leads to various scenarios:

• Holy shit you're a psychopath? Removing you from my contacts telling your boss and I'm going to bar my windows because now you're going to try to mutilate me. Just get away from me. (Psychopaths are perfectly capable of functioning in society and they aren't all murder-crazed like some would have you think. In fact, I would venture to say the majority of people that could qualify as a "psychopath" DO lead normal relatively lives. The fact that people will start looking at someone like they're some kind of "freak" I think goes beyond being offensive and can seriously wreck someone's personal life/)
  
• Schizophrenia, huh? So which one of you am I REALLY talking to right now? (As I've mentioned before, this often gets confused with DID, and a lot of people role playing a """""schizo""""" (don't ever call someone that. ever) incorrectly will only reinforce this.)
  
• Depression? Don't worry. As soon as you find true love, everything will be right in the world, so stop feeling sorry for yourself. (Having people constantly pressure those with depression and just "buck up" are definitely NOT helping. They could begin to see themselves as a burden and, worst case scenario, will commit suicide.)
  

That's just a few things that come to mind, but this poor representations in media all end up reflecting on those that are actually suffering from these illnesses because people will consciously or subconsciously absorb these behaviors as "the way it is" if that's the only thing they've ever seen of it.

This also applies to other domains. I'm, for example, a white, cis-gendered, bisexual, man with a mental disorder. Should I not be allowed to play women? Should I not be allowed to play other ethnicities? Should I not be able to play a cross-dresser? Should I not be able to play a straight or gay person? And - following the opposite logic of this topic's subject matter - should I even be allowed to play a "sane" person?

I don't believe anyone is saying that you have to have a mental disorder in order to write one.


The biggest point here, or at least what mine was, is that if you're going to write something (and therefore hint at "I know what I'm talking about"), you should do it accurately.


Mental illnesses isn't the only thing that suffers from misrepresentation.


I think a lot of homophobia stems from media using a gay man that clings lustily to the main protagonist and his bulging muscles, which I believe leads to a lot of people subconsciously assuming that gay men are huge flirts which, just like any straight or otherwise man/woman, actually varies person to person.


Ethnicities also suffer from stereotyping, so the point is that you handle this MATURELY.


Before you make any assumptions about culture, it would be a good idea to actually make sure that it's still applicable in the modern day world or if it ever even existed.


And if you're going to role play a woman, for the love of God, don't just make her some man-slave and have absolutely nothing else going for her.


I'm not saying YOU do this by any means, but I'm saying that this is the same kind of simplification/misrepresentation that goes on with mental illnesses, though I would say that mental illnesses more than any of those things tends to be poorly represented.


Basically, if you're going to try something with your character just... don't attribute it to something it's not.

 

[birdyluv0]

It's good to have a nice mix of characters. And who knows? Maybe some of those people that are playing mentally challenged characters have challenges themself.


And maybe some people just like RPing Mentally challenged characters.

 

[AlexSilverX]

Alright, so here's the problem with inaccurate portrayal.
It goes beyond it just being potentially offensive.


The problem is that there's already shit tons of misconceptions with mental illnesses, and someone claiming their character has _____ because they act _____ creates another.


I'm not going to exaggerate the importance of this site and say that a couple of role plays with misrepresentation is going to confuse tens of thousands of people or anything, but with so much misunderstandings going around in the first place, it would be nice to cut back a little and educate a few people instead (no, I don't mean sitting someone down and yelling at them, I mean doing your research/watching someone else give a better feel of what having this disorder is actually like).


When there are misunderstandings of mental illnesses, this leads to various scenarios:

• Holy shit you're a psychopath? Removing you from my contacts telling your boss and I'm going to bar my windows because now you're going to try to mutilate me. Just get away from me. (Psychopaths are perfectly capable of functioning in society and they aren't all murder-crazed like some would have you think. In fact, I would venture to say the majority of people that could qualify as a "psychopath" DO lead normal relatively lives. The fact that people will start looking at someone like they're some kind of "freak" I think goes beyond being offensive and can seriously wreck someone's personal life/)
  
• Schizophrenia, huh? So which one of you am I REALLY talking to right now? (As I've mentioned before, this often gets confused with DID, and a lot of people role playing a """""schizo""""" (don't ever call someone that. ever) incorrectly will only reinforce this.)
  
• Depression? Don't worry. As soon as you find true love, everything will be right in the world, so stop feeling sorry for yourself. (Having people constantly pressure those with depression and just "buck up" are definitely NOT helping. They could begin to see themselves as a burden and, worst case scenario, will commit suicide.)
  

That's just a few things that come to mind, but this poor representations in media all end up reflecting on those that are actually suffering from these illnesses because people will consciously or subconsciously absorb these behaviors as "the way it is" if that's the only thing they've ever seen of it.


I don't believe anyone is saying that you have to have a mental disorder in order to write one.


The biggest point here, or at least what mine was, is that if you're going to write something (and therefore hint at "I know what I'm talking about"), you should do it accurately.


Mental illnesses isn't the only thing that suffers from misrepresentation.


I think a lot of homophobia stems from media using a gay man that clings lustily to the main protagonist and his bulging muscles, which I believe leads to a lot of people subconsciously assuming that gay men are huge flirts which, just like any straight or otherwise man/woman, actually varies person to person.


Ethnicities also suffer from stereotyping, so the point is that you handle this MATURELY.


Before you make any assumptions about culture, it would be a good idea to actually make sure that it's still applicable in the modern day world or if it ever even existed.


And if you're going to role play a woman, for the love of God, don't just make her some man-slave and have absolutely nothing else going for her.


I'm not saying YOU do this by any means, but I'm saying that this is the same kind of simplification/misrepresentation that goes on with mental illnesses, though I would say that mental illnesses more than any of those things tends to be poorly represented.


Basically, if you're going to try something with your character just... don't attribute it to something it's not.

Well, the bottom-line would be to just encourage people to research something before playing it. But a lot of people, sadly, do not.


EDIT: Also, RP or otherwise, whatever damage could be done to the image of mental illness through the media has already been - for the most part - done.


EDIT / P.S.: Feel free to call me a schizo. It's a case by case thing (like how some little people actually prefer to be called midgets) but personally - personally - I feel that it's a lot simpler and just as negative or positive as "an unfortunate but perfectly normal individual who happens to be suffering from schizophrenia".


Second EDIT because I hate double posting when I can avoid it: While concerned, everything I say above is just my opinion. It's credence is only worth as much as you're willing to give it. I discovered my mental illness early on and have been properly medicated since so it had no real impact on my life. (aside from the cost of said medication which is not covered) and while I've taken a few classes in psychology as open credentials, that does not qualify me in the field in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Ignitedstar]

I think people use mental disability for their characters for many reasons. This isn't all of them, and many of them could apply at the same time, but I'm really writing what comes to mind.


1) They've personally experienced mental disability. Most people write what they know.


2) They know someone who has (or had) mental disability. Again, people writing what they know.


3) They work around, with, or deal with people who have disabilities. Again, writing what they know.


4) It's easy to write as an immediate character flaw and challenge that may be overcome, though I think this is unrealistic.


5) They're imitating what they see/hear from more popular sources, no matter how poorly it's done. It's sad when this leads to prejudice.


6) Their writing is really a wish fulfillment in disguise as any of the other five reasons above. Although what kind of anything creative isn't wish fulfillment in some shape or form?


7) They've done their research and want to show a condition in a respectful way to teach others.


8) It's a fetish ala #6. The wish fulfillment in this case is this. Don't ask.


Do note that I am referring to writers who give a damn. I could care less for the people who do whatever else on a whim's notice.


I am only really irked when mental disability is treated as, "I have a mental condition and deserved to be treated special unlike everyone else who doesn't have one." It's that kind of entitlement that... uugh.

 

[kibou]

I agree a lot with Pine and Ignited... Those are typically the reasons I see. I don't really have much to add to that either- the people who aren't playing characters with mental illness because they relate usually do it because it's exciting, etc.


But I also wanted to chime in about the therapist issue that was mentioned. While I totally agree that portraying all therapists as useless or whatever is completely ridiculous as it is very untrue, it would also be silly to say they're all good. Some are good for some people but a bad match for others, but you can't get degrees without knowing your subject.


However...


For about the second half of my freshman year of highschool I had to attend therapy- it was court ordered.


The therapist I was assigned absolutely sucked.

Spoiler

She didn't listen to what I said and misinterpreted me, and when I tried to correct her completely disregarded it.


Early on she asked me what I thought about my appearance- I said something that was basically "I'm not extremely attractive, but I'm not ugly either. I look pretty decent, at least average."


Somehow she understood that to be me having body or appearance issues, even when I tried to tell her that no, I'm pretty content with how I look. It was pretty frustrating, and she wasted time on this topic for no reason.


She asked me if I was dating anyone, I said no, and it turned into a discussion about romance. I said I wasn't interested in romance, and she started going on about how I don't love myself enough to think I can let someone love me and honestly I was kinda offended. Once again she wasted time on a completely irrelevant subject, and she somehow concluded and then stated as a fact that I don't love or even like myself. It was kinda a "wtf?" moment.


She also tried to bring in Christianity (which she belongs to), suggest going to church, etc. I'm not a Christian or spiritual. It would make sense if I was, but... I'm not?


I was completely uncomfortable with my mom, and she let her sit in sessions with me when my uncomfortableness was clear. I mean I guess she asked me if it was okay, and I said yes because I was too intimidated to do otherwise at that time so it was partly my fault but you'd think a professional psychologist would know better or at least, like, stop asking? At least she would often start talking to my mom and sometimes they'd completely ignore me for the majority of the session- which again, if I had wanted help, would have been a really shitty thing to do.


She completely ignored requests I made of her. In fact, she asked me if it was okay if she said hi or waved at me if she saw me in public or something. I said no, don't. She did it anyways- waved at me, approached me, etc.


I guess some of these things might seem small, but it's just a handful of examples. She was completely useless to me, and kind of ridiculous.


And this wasn't like some random school counselor either, it was a totally qualified therapist who does exclusively this for a living. The only help she provided was free food in the form of a bowl in the waiting room that was full of candy... until I left.


TLR there are some near-useless therapists