Mechanics for diceless games

[Eske]

This thread is the product of a discussion on the new and fabulous ShoutBox. Since we've merged with RPZ, the amount of diceless games have exploded.


Alad V has written a superb guide for players in DL games; and he is planning on writing a guide for GMs too. So in a way, Alad V has written the book on diceless "gaming"!


Take a look - it's a few posts below this one. We plan on moving it to a new thread when everything's ready, maybe do a PDF.


My thoughts were these on what a guide should be about:


Traditional dice RPGs have rules. They're vital to the game, full of numbers and guides and all sorts of silly stuff. But sometimes, RPGs have some great ideas about how to actually tell a great story.


my proposal is that a guide for telling stories in a diceless environment is written. There are tons of knowledge on how to manage your story, we just have to structure it and make it easy for people to read and understand.


I'd like to start this as a discussion where people can chime in on what they think is important in such a guide. What should be emphasised? What's not important? There are players out there who has this down to a science; it just needs to be processed and put on paper.


So please - join the fun! 
Some DL (down-low, or "dice-less", if you want to be P.C.) games work perfectly fine as they are. No need for guides or changes. But why not share that knowledge?


Here's a point worth considering: Even a dice-less game has rules, although they are mostly implicit and subject to the GM's discretion. The DL Game Guide should contain those same rules, only explicit and expanded on.


I have some ideas on how to help GMs manage intensity levels so they can control the narrative to their liking. We all want climactic drama, but only in moderation. These mechanics can (hopefully) be implemented in a DL game and tighten things up.


Which brings me to another big one: Lack of consistency in the prose. Here guide-lines are a no-brainer; we could have as many conventions as we like, as long as everybody agrees on which guide to use. No more mixing tenses and going off on tangents that don't make sense to the narrative.


please chime in!

 

[White Masquerade]

1. Make it player-centered. Not GM-centered. The GM's only goal, is to create an engaging and dynamic world/story for the RPers to play in.


2. Encourage interaction between RPers.


3. GM needs to discuss with the villain, what he wants done. Collaboration between the most important role-players (GM, Villain) is an absolute must. If they are not on the same page, the story will get wildly out of control, lose its pacing/direction, and cause uncertainty to ripple throughout the whole RP.


4. If a participating RPer adds a new piece to the role-play. Add it into the scenery/lore. Do not ignore it! The richer the world, especially when filled with players' ideas, the more satisfying the role-play.


Those are just a few.

 

[Eske]

Are diceless gamers directly opposed to anything outside the fiction?


Do people not use dice to avoid random events, or do they avoid them because anything outside the writing is just an obstacle?


There's a very simple way of playing an RPG where you roll a black die and a white die. If the black die roll is higher than the white, the GM gets to narrate what happens. If not, the player gets to narrate what happens (within limits).


This mechanic could be transferred to diceless games in several ways. The GM could simply assign a player to narrate what happens to the character in a specific situation.


But what about using "tickets"? For each session, each player gets a "ticket" that they can use to narrate what happens in a certain situation. Within the GM's guidelines, of course.


But is such a simple idea too much like rules for diceless games? Tell me what you think.

 

[Riddle78]

As a longtime veteran of diceless RP,I have extensive experience in this matter. It's less "mechanics" and more "writing differently". Wirthout dice,it instantly becomes distantly removed from a game,and becomes more like a collaborative storywriting effort.


-Make things flexible. You need to be able to roll with people flying off the rails. Or,trying to,at any rate. If the story gets broke from someone shooting the ugly bastard in the face on sight,then you need to rethink the plot.


-Contingencies! Backup plans for EVERYTHING. If your players make one avenue of approach impossible due to shooting the ugly guy in the face,then you need ways for them to advance your story anyways.


-Setting rules. Things need to be consistent. Magic A needs to be Magic A. If things aren't consistent,people won't be able to make heads or tails of the more fantastic pars of the setting,and generally lose interest without understanding.


-Know when to kill players. Sometimes,people will stop posting. This will halt the RP. Know when,and how,to kill people off to keep things moving.


-Make consequences real. Mistakes can be made. When the players drop the ball,make them feel it.


All-in-all,treat a diceless RP like a book,not a game.

 

[Eske]

[QUOTE="Alad V]As a longtime veteran of diceless RP,I have extensive experience in this matter. It's less "mechanics" and more "writing differently". Wirthout dice,it instantly becomes distantly removed from a game,and becomes more like a collaborative storywriting effort.
-Make things flexible. You need to be able to roll with people flying off the rails. Or,trying to,at any rate. If the story gets broke from someone shooting the ugly bastard in the face on sight,then you need to rethink the plot.


-Contingencies! Backup plans for EVERYTHING. If your players make one avenue of approach impossible due to shooting the ugly guy in the face,then you need ways for them to advance your story anyways.


-Setting rules. Things need to be consistent. Magic A needs to be Magic A. If things aren't consistent,people won't be able to make heads or tails of the more fantastic pars of the setting,and generally lose interest without understanding.


-Know when to kill players. Sometimes,people will stop posting. This will halt the RP. Know when,and how,to kill people off to keep things moving.


-Make consequences real. Mistakes can be made. When the players drop the ball,make them feel it.


All-in-all,treat a diceless RP like a book,not a game.

[/QUOTE]
Some great observations that I think can be directly incorporated into a guide on how to make a successful diceless RP.


Many of the principles you mention are present in most traditional RPGs - at least the newer generation that focuses on narrative.


But I see some divergence here: the poster above emphasises the player input, while you seem to emphasise the GM's ability to "roll with the punches". The latter model tends to put a lot of work on the GM's shoulders. Is it possible to categorise these two different types of DL games? PC driven and GM driven?


Do you all agree that a DL RP should be treated more like a book than a game? Maybe there are two ways of looking at this too.

 

[Riddle78]

Alad V's Guide to Dice-Free RP



​

As a foreword,this is how I do dice-free RP. If you disagree,that's fine. Everyone operates differently. If you disagree in part,excellent! Improve upon the model! This guide will be divided into two categories: One for the GM,and one for the players.


Player's Guide





This section will focus on the players. A player is defined by this guide as a person who plays a role in the story,but isn't privy to the inner workings of the setting or plot. They're along for the ride,but they can influence where it goes.


-Your Purpose





As a Player,your purpose is to enable the plot. Without you,the story CANNOT happen. However,you're still at the whim of the GM. As a Player,you must be aware of the setting,and your character's place in it. Without dice,there are no stats. No checks. Just you,and your writing ability. This is simultaneously liberating and restricting. You can do many wonderful things,without a bad roll making you tripping over your bootlaces and breaking your face. But,at the same time,you always need to be aware of the qualitative limits of your character. Going beyond them is simply poor writing,and many GM's will simply kill the character on the spot for this transgression,or rewind time and say "Try again".


-Chief Differences





Without dice,one of the GM's most effective tools at limiting God Modding is removed. There's no Random Number God being an unfeeling,neutral equalizer. As such,players need to be more mindful of what they're doing. As a Player,this is significant. It gives you much more power over the plot and happenings of the story. It is something that should never be taken lightly. And because there's no dice,there are no stats. Why have stats if you're never going to check against them? As such,when making a character,a Player needs to understand something called qualitative limits. Limits that are generally described,but not precisely defined. It's the difference between 10/10 Strength and having Doomsday Pecs. All-in-all,as a Player in a Dice-Free RP,you're going to be adopting a more organic style of writing and character creation,focused more on telling a story,be it about your character,or how your character is a part of the GM's Grand Plan.


-Characters





Without stats,much of the content of a traditional character sheet is lost. So strength,dex,and other such fabrications of arbitration. And,without dice,the RP is forced to rely on other means of providing challenge,conflict,and plot,beyond a simply reflex save for stepping on a pressure plate. When you as a Player make your character,you need to abandon the notion of stats,but keep in mind the notion of balance. Nobody's an Ubermensch. Nobody's a god. Everyone has shortcomings. While stats force this,and often quite artificially,without dice,you need to get creative,and this is where the first freedom and restraint that you'll experience as a Player: I'm free to make an utterly unique character,with intricate strengths and weaknesses,a legitimate human being,existing on the paper. But how do I do it without being too powerful for the plot's sake? And how do I do it without breaking the established canon of the setting? These are all things a Player needs to consider when making a character. There are no numbers,simply a human.


-Writing





As a Player,you provide much of the goings on in the RP. When you write,you are your character. No taking control,in ANY capacity,of other characters,unless people specifically say they're NPC's,which are free range. This is called bunnying. Which is frowned upon. Heavily. While writing,Players also need to be aware of what they are doing,and how it contributes. Mention what's important,what might be important to others,and what it is you're doing for others to work with. This is ESPECIALLY important in a fight scene. Combat will be covered in a different section,due to the intricacies. As a rule,write only from your character's perspective,and make clear distinctions between actions,thoughts,and speech.


-Combat





Combat is inevitable in many RP's. It's also incredibly complex. There's more to swordfighting than flailing your arm. There's more to a gunfight than point and shoot. Much,MUCH more. Without dice to provide randomness,and something to use in lieu of actual knowledge on how to fight,Players need to use their head. Combat is a dance. It's about either overpowering your opponent,or,failing that,removing their options. For every strike,there's a counterstrike,and a counterstrike for that,and so on. In a melee,movement is important,as it imparts force and momentum into a strike,giving it more power. You also need to be mindful if armour; Contrary to what everyone and their dog might say,armour isn't cripplingly heavy,nor over-encumbering. Take it from the guy who wore full plate and chainmail. It's easy to wear. Your range of movement will be mildly restricted,but there's no reason to be reaching that high in a fight to begin with. The weight,while considerable,feels much less than it actually is,because it's distributed across your entire body,and any rigid portion will naturally partially support itself. As such,armour is incredibly useful for staying alive. A man in full-plate will laugh off katanas,falchions,and other light slashing weapons,because a blade has no hope of cutting plates of steel. Armour is varied,and can be defeated with various means,and,as a Player,it is up to you to decide if it's worth it. In a gunfight,armour is less useful,especially against larger rounds,so armour simply becomes a question of how many extra toys you want to bring into a fight. More surface area is more places to stick a pouch for something like grenades or knives. When actively fighting,never phrase you assault as an automatic hit. There's always the chance. Furthermore,biology is still a thing in a fight. If someone puts a blade through your spine,you won't be able to move. If someone puts a bullet in your throat,you'll be dead within the minute. Also remember that adrenaline is an extremely powerful thing: It is capable of almost turning off your pain receptors. And,finally,remember that there are no rules to a fight. Take any advantage you can get. Fight dirty. Anything to live another day.


-Interplayer Interaction





More often than not,you'll be directly interacting with your fellow Players. This can be all sorts of fun,and a great way to frustrate people to no end with a neverending back-and-forth. Treat other characters well. They're not disposable. Or,maybe they are. Who knows,but still. It's sorta like interacting with other people in real life. However,it should be noted,for the sake of EVERYONE involved: Do not get locked in page after page of back-and-forth nattering. Let other people do their thing.


GM guide to follow.

 

[Eske]

I don't think anyone could demand more from a post like that. Awesome job, Alad V. You've moved this project lightyears ahead.


Still, as Alad V mentions in his introduction, opinions may vary - so if you have a different approach, please chime in. You don't have to match Alad's opus - just point out where you think things could be done differently.

 

[White Masquerade]

I wish I could add more to Vlad's post. But Vlad really nailed everything right on the head. Being dice-less forces a role-player to use their head a bit more. To get creative. The focus shifts from winning or staying alive, to making the story fun, fair, and engaging for everyone.