Lunar Shapeshift Question

[Sherwood]

While your anima banner is glowing totemic, you are locked into your true forms. So, if you take a different form prior to your anima going off, and you spend motes on various Charms enough to kick it into that level, does it make you shift out of the form you are in, or does it simply require you to shift only into one of your true forms when you change out of that one? As long as you do not change your form, do you get to stay in the alternate one?

 

[Ryvaken Tadrya]

Page 121


"If the character is shapeshifted, she is forced to return to her true forms."


And to be clear, that kicks in at 8m, not 16m.

 

[skafte]

and you return to the last true form you used.

 

[Haku1]

Granted, if you were talking about Manta, she should be popping into her Warform or staying there.

 

[Flagg]

and you return to the last true form you used.

Not that I doubt you at all, but do you have a page ref?

 

[skafte]

hmm... seems like I was wrong on that one. Only thing I would find was what when you die you go back to last worn true form, page 127, just before the Spirit Shape section. It may be from there I had it.

 

[Dracogryff]

It was the case in 1E, is more likely where you got it. I have no page refs, and really don't feel like digging out and looking through the 1E Lunars book, but it could be a case of fluff not coming over, or it really could be indicative of an intent to change it.


Me, I generally still assume you go back into the last one you assumed...otherwise it's like a free DBT or something that so many people would exploit. The other option would be to make people pay for the form they're forced into, but that seems a little unfair to me.


Granted, I would still require them, no matter what, to pay the Gift-OK Charm costs whichever way they go DBT, but then...that also seems logical to me. *shrugs*

 

[Coyotekin]

From what I interpreted of it meant A true form. This means Human or Spirit shape from what I read of it, or perhaps even a reflexive Charm use of DBT.

 

[Dracogryff]

It's possible it's meant to be interpreted that way, now. However, since shifting is normally a speed 5 miscellaneous action* otherwise (this is a reflexive thing that doesn't need to be flurried), I tend to be a little more nitpicky. It's also not a Charm use to go DBT. That's just shapeshifting via Knack.


Even if I allowed someone to choose which form (including War Form) they were forced into, I would not allow them to get any Gift-OK Charms without committing the motes as they were forced into the form. Allowing a free reflexive shifting (with no mote cost) is one thing. Allowing them to completely bypass mote commitment is another entirely. Gift-OK Charms are not inherently part of the shape and so shouldn't go up automatically if you're forced into it. *shrugs*


*Unless you happen to have the Knacks that make shapeshifting faster.

 

[The zombie cat]

I would be inclined to make it true form of your chosing, if your want deadly beast man you pay for it and any gift charms you want to activate.


What worries me is that a lunar attacked in non combat form can spend 8 motes on a defensive action (combo of first dex and dodge enhancer) and reflexively enter the war form when in is normally an action.


Edward

 

[Tikor]

The below is entirely my opinion and not a page reference in the slightest. Consider it a possible houserule.


I find it thematically appropriate that a Lunar could reflexively be forced from some non-true form into a true form of thier choosing via mote expenditure. I believe if the war form was chosen that all costs (including gift charms) would have to be paid. I also wouldn't mind the character's *next* available action is considered to be taken by the miscellaneous action "Recuperating from sudden shift" unless fast-shift knacks are applied (and paid for) no matter which true form is taken. That way fast-shift knacks are not obviated, but the Lunar can benefit from any war form/spirit shape/human form defenses he may desperately need via mote expendeture. Lunars are the survival masters after all.

 

[Halykan]

I generally interpret it as offering the player the option of shifting into either her human or spirit shape without cost, or adopting her war form for normal cost, gift charms and all. I have a few reservations about this particular rule myself - solely based on a conflict between rules and background/setting as I understand it.


That being, there are frequent references in the books to Lunars assuming devastating behemoth shapes for wrecking cities with, or for shifting between a variety of useful shapes in combat to fully utilize their shapeshifting potential.


But unless we're assuming that the lunars aren't going to bother using any charms once they've assumed the false shape, this particular rule really destroys the combat utility of behemoth shapes (which are already less useful than war forms in one respect, because the "extra" stats count against your dice pool max). One can argue that being able to assume the form of a few of the truly disgusting behemoths would be worth abandoning charm use, but if the Lunar is powerful enough to subdue the Last Supplicant or something, I have to ask just how high stats have to be that they're better than Essence 6+ charms (like the sort the First Age Lunars who allegedly engaged in this behavior undoubtedly had). I mean, Emperor Ox Expansion turns you into an army, and it's only an Essence 5 charm (that can also add your essence to your Strength and Stamina for small-scale fighting).


Alternately, consider Lightning Quicksilver Infusion (? think that's the name). Commit some motes, shift into whatever shape you want. Theoretically this would be useful in combat, allowing you to soak with large shapes or dodge with tiny ones, or make fly-by attacks where you shift into a tyrant lizard just before striking to use the better strength, etc.


Except that if you use charms to any appreciable extent, you're barred from shifting into false shapes, completely destroying the charm's utility. So, um, what good is it really?


So, more or less I'm interested in what other people think about the purpose/balance behind the rule.

 

[Kyeudo]

I suggest making a custom knack that would allow you to assume false shapes when you should be form locked.

 

[FluffySquirrel]

Never particularly liked the form locking myself.. it seems far more of a downside and one that's utterly bizarre for lunars.. I mean, why would they be designed to be so mercurial and yet when they use power, it goes away?.. it'd be like saying that when solars hit 11+ they can't use perfects.. there's just no reason for it that I can see. DB's have a downside to theirs, sure.. but you can also see why, as it's both fitting, -and- useful in combat. Being denied your schtick is just plain odd.


Personally I'd say flat out houserule it out if you don't like it

 

[The zombie cat]

how would hybrid body rearrangement interact with a flaring anima banner.


can my human true form have wings whil sliver light swirls around me.


Edward

 

[Haku1]

how would hybrid body rearrangement interact with a flaring anima banner.
can my human true form have wings whil sliver light swirls around me.


Edward

Remember, lunar anima lock only works with -complete- transformation, partial transformatio such as that of hybrid body rearrangement still works fine.