Is it the same Green Lady?

[Hand of Destiny]

In the abyssals book Walker In Darkness is served by a sidereal called the Green Lady.  Is this the same Green Lady that predicted, when he was still alive, that Mask of Winters would one day rule the world.  What does everyone think?  As a side note she's not the only sidereal to serve the malfeans,  Ten Thousand Virtues has served them since the usurpation.  How would that work as some of the sidereals charms only work with the approval of the maidens.  Unless they're sleeper agents playing a very long game indeed.

 

[Kajata]

I'd guess it probably is the same person, after all it's unlikely that 2 people are going to go by the same alias, and both of them consort with Deathlords (okay... Larquen Quen wasn't a DL at the time... but still...)


As for the sid charm thing, doesn't it only require the maiden's approval to learn, not to use?  And I wouldn't put it past a sid to have an eons long plot

 

[Forn Clakes]

Its the same person, and if I recall, she is actually working for the Mask of Winters, acting as spy for him in the Walker's camp.


As for Siddy Charms, they need the Maiden's approval to learn, but some Charms can cause Severity offences if used without permission, the Dodge Charm "Neighborhood Relocation Scheme" being one of them.


~FC.

 

[Seiraryu]

What I want to know is how people justify Sidereal Astrology for Sidereals that have betrayed Heaven.  I mean... everytime I bring this up most people just say "Uh, just make up some cooky constellations in the Underworld," but nobody really explains why they think that would work.


Uh, hello?  Sidereals are connected to Creation's constellations, not the Underworld's.  Just giving the Underworld some stars that change based on the Calendar of Setesh isn't gonna cut it, you know?


Any ideas?  Or do they just get banned from using Astrology?

 

[Flagg]

Any ideas?  Or do they just get banned from using Astrology?

We have no indication that they can perform Astrology that affects the Underworld. It's outside of Fate, and thus outside of Sidereal influence.


However, we have no indication that the pattern spiders give a crap who tells them what to do, so long as they're authorized. There's no mention (IIRC) of a Sidereal ever getting his membership to a College revoked.


It would seem, for lack of any information to the contrary, that renegade Sidereals still use normal Astrology.


-S

 

[Seiraryu]

See?  Now that's a logical answer.  Now, the logical follow-up: how would you do it, Still?

 

[Flagg]

How would I do what?


-S

 

[Kajata]

Does heaven even know the renegade Sidereals are renegade?  I mean, I thought they were more like double agents?

 

[Forn Clakes]

Hmm, curious, I'm unsure. Could the creation of Black Ice Shadow (the Chosen of Endings, p.95 of the Sidereals book) be an attempt to maybe discover this, so-called, Underworld constellation and maybe find a way of affecting it?


Who knows.... :wink:


~FC.

 

[ashenphoenix]

Someone once made up the Gehennals - Siderials for the missing planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto) that were sucked into the Underworld after its creation.


Might still be around on the net somewhere if you seach for it.

 

[Dulio Giovanni]

Well rogue Sidreals could still theoretically utilize standard astrology it would just be harder for them to do it on the level of Kejak or Ura since they won't be able to ask for cosginatories and such to support their petitions and they would still get hit by paradox just the same as any Sidreal. Regarding heaven banning them well I would cleave to the notion that the ability to manipulate creation's destiny would stem from the Sidreal in themselves and not by some authorization by any existing God or Supperior so the only ones that could concievably ban them from using astrology would be the Maidens themselves or possibly Authochon since he built the damn thing in the first place.

 

[fmneto]

However, we have no indication that the pattern spiders give a crap who tells them what to do, so long as they're authorized. There's no mention (IIRC) of a Sidereal ever getting his membership to a College revoked.

Oh yeah we do have indication. Ever heard about Paradox? That's what a siddy gets for messing around with Astrology; not only do they receive paradox by merely *using* astrology, but they also get it by using it for something that disturbs the spíders.


Besides that, I never heard of "Abyssal Sidereal Exalted"; so it must be "regular" Sidereal Astrology they use - if they do use it at all.

 

[Seiraryu]

However, we have no indication that the pattern spiders give a crap who tells them what to do, so long as they're authorized. There's no mention (IIRC) of a Sidereal ever getting his membership to a College revoked.

Oh yeah we do have indication. Ever heard about Paradox? That's what a siddy gets for messing around with Astrology.

Umm... Stillborn said "who" not "what."  Paradox is gained by doing things wrong with Astrology, or treating the Spiders wrong... he was refering as to the fact that there's no mention that the Spiders care who tells them what to do.

 

[fmneto]

Umm... Stillborn said "who" not "what."  Paradox is gained by doing things wrong with Astrology, or treating the Spiders wrong... he was refering as to the fact that there's no mention that the Spiders care who tells them what to do.

But they do. Sidereals are the only ones who get Paradox points for messing around with the spiders. They get paradox by *merely* using astrology, and then they get a few more points depending on what they ask.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Umm... Stillborn said "who" not "what."  Paradox is gained by doing things wrong with Astrology, or treating the Spiders wrong... he was refering as to the fact that there's no mention that the Spiders care who tells them what to do.

But they do. Sidereals are the only ones who get Paradox points for messing around with the spiders. They get paradox by *merely* using astrology, and then they get a few more points depending on what they ask.

 I believe that the point Still and Seiraryu were trying to make is that the spiders don't care which Siddie commands them; they respond to all 'licensed' requests equally, and answer all annoyances in the same way. Kejak gets the same # of Paradox as Ura or the Green Lady for the same action, for instance.

 

[Flagg]

Exactly. Furthermore, there seems to be no means to revoke this authorization, once granted. At least, none that's mentioned.


-S