Image Usage

[Time]

<p>


Welp! Time to go in to this topic! A controversial one at that, which I hope not to stir up drama, but I feel is a topic needed to be talked about especially in this community! Maybe it'll even help someone peps get out of trouble, or prevent it. <span style="text-decoration:line-through;">And maybe to finish past the newbie post role thing</span> <strong>Art usage.</strong> How should image or art usage be used on this site? Taking images of whatever, and their designs, using them in many things, such as a image of your roleplay charcter can actually be considered grey zone when community to things such as "art theft". It's MIGHTY complicated. It might be that your charcter shares a few traits and you think that a visual representation of them would be best? Or it might be you like an aspect of a charcters design or what not. Either way, trouble about theft is very very grey. For example, what if a roleplayer, apparently named Cress on this site weant and drew their charcter, uploading it to, let's say a public image hosting site for visuals. Then, a large roleplaying group which they plan to use that charcter for, there is this other roleplayer, let's call them Thyme. Thyme wants a visual representation too, but for whatever reason decided to take a image of the Web. They coincidently finds the image Cress drew, and they use it for their charcter. They are also coincidently in the same roleplay. The group is large. And no one knows everyone. Then Cress finds out about Thyme. <strong>What should Cress do? Ask them to take down the image, or ask them to use another image, or report them for art theft, or ignore them, or be totally okay with it, or something else. </strong><em>(I'd greatly appreciate if you'd comment down below about the "right" initiative,) </em> Then there is Basil, he wants a visual too! And just like Thyme, for whatever reason, he uses Cress's image. He is on another site roleplaying.<em> (This part will just be a bit of situation bending & stuff, so don't be offended, I'm just trying to show how confusing this all is. Not trying to offend the community and stuff, but this problem has never truly been solved, so this is sort of a slap at the general vagaties, not saying that all sites which have this problem are confused are problematic & other stuff, but just saying that everything is so vauge and bringing it up for discussion to try and piece together stuff.... The trouble with this is exactly the reason I'm bringing it up. I'm not trying to nudge mods and admins to make changes, but who knows what this could trigger. Or it might just sit deep unanswered by any user.</em>) On this site, there is no "Creator Cress" to bring him down, heck, he dosent even know of the artist behind the work. <strong>What should the site do? What should Basil do? What should we do? </strong> Oh my. That was certainly heafty. And thing is, the grey zone of it all is just pain. Let's just discuss below friendly taking! It is, by the example above very hard to chose "justifications" so that's why I want to hear from all of you!


</p>

 

[Rodan]

As an artist myself, my feelings have always been conflicted on this topic. Personally, I always result in either drawing my character myself (no matter how low res it looks) or just describing what they look like in depth.


Usually in this situation, like you said, it's hard to find the original artist to give credit to. In my opinion, I think we as a rp community should at least try to find the original source work, and see if the artist is fine with their work being used. It's not like there arent other, hundreds of visuals that are actually public domain.

 

[Rodan]

And, if I was Cress, I would contact this rper and kindly ask them to not just take the artwork, but leave a link under the piece that takes the viewer to where the art was originally created, and also, perhaps highlight that the art belongs to me.

 

[augmentedspartan]

Fair Use, that's why it's there. Also, just using an image isn't "art theft", they have to claim it as their own in order for it to be considered theft. Although the bit about citing the original artist is a good point.

 

[Rodan]

Fair Use, that's why it's there. Also, just using an image isn't "art theft", they have to claim it as their own in order for it to be considered theft. Although the bit about citing the original artist is a good point.

Art theft is a strong word-er-two words. But I don't believe one should just find a image and slap it unto their forum, without looking if the original artist thinks it's ok. Some artist just don't want their art to be posted anywhere else.

 

[augmentedspartan]

Well, that's when things get very subjective. If it falls under Fair Use (which varies from case to case) then one is legally allowed to use said image without asking the owner. Now the question is if using an image for an RP counts as Fair Use or not.

 

[call me rae]

I'd say @augmentedspartan hit the nail on the head. It's incredibly subjective and for the most part falls under fair use - basically as long as the person is not claiming the art as their own typically speaking it's fine to use.


As to the whole grey area of it all - I think that's because it all boils down to personal preference of the artist. Some people don't care if their art is used - some people aren't aware their art is being used - and some people don't want their characters used ever outside of their own personal works.


But there is no one way of feeling about anything and so it makes creating broad generalizations especially hard.


When you add on the fact that the average user doesn't know a thing about fair use or how to search for images that people have allowed to be used and it gets even more convoluted. Most people when they look for an image - real / illustrated / whatever - just go to some kind of search engine or photo sharing site and just pick and image that they like.


And further not all these photo sharing sites ( and certainly not with a search engine ) can you tell if a piece of art is "allowed" to be used by others or not.


So thus people just use the things they like and move on.


As for sites - some are strict about the kind of images you use and some aren't. It just depends on the administration and how restrictive they want to be of their user base. But I don't suppose there is any more a right or wrong way of doing that than there is in searching for images in general.


So I'd say the best way to handle this is on a case by case basis.


So if you are an artist and you see a character of yours being used in a way you don't agree with your more than welcome to contact the person using you work and ask them to change it or add a credit or however you want to handle that.


Most people as I said are just ignorant to the nuances and when asked will be happy to be accommodating.


If they aren't than you can try to contact the mods of the site and see what comes of that.

 

[Idea]

I don't like just repeating what others say, but let me state that I agree with @augmentedspartan on this one.


I am actually left without much to add, so I'll look at the example and bring up two things that kinda stood out.


First, does sheer, unprofited usage mean art theft or free publicity? If you can find the image in the web just like that, then the latter seems more intuitive. The people in question, except the artist made no claims of owning the art. The art was clearly not meant for profit purposes, and no profit or anything was being earned out of it by someone other than the owner. As stated, it also falls into the fair use law. On the other hand, using the image not only gives a direct display of the art which may bring people to actually go look up the original and the artist (just the other day, a player in an RP I'm in used a gif from a character in an anime, which resulted in another member watching that anime because he found the image cute. Just an example), but also bumps it up in search engines and other such things, making the image have increased odds at popularity and by extension, the artist. If the artist doesn't want any of that, then I must question why the artist thought it a good idea to put it in public display in the first place.


For the second point, regarding the thread and conflict of image usage, it's actually simple: first come, first serve. It doesn't matter who you are or what your relation with the image may be: if someone already used an imagine for their character it's downright selfish and irresponsible to ask them to take it down just because you also want to use taht image. (Especially Considering the above).

 

[ApfelSeine]

Rp nation is different from image hosting sites. Pictures posted or linked do not serve the same purpose as posting them to deviant art or tumblr or Pinterest or whatever other site people use. You shouldn't reupload art that you find online to any of those sites, even if you don't claim that it is yours, because you're using it for the same purpose as the original. That's why it's a big deal on sites like tumblr when you repost art without permission. You're essentially cutting down on the number of views they get on their original page. It puts a dent in the value of their intellectual property because other people don't have to go to the artist's website or page to look at their art, since they've already seen it. However, using a picture as a faceclaim is different. On tumblr, it's a moral gray area because technically tumblr is still technically an image and media hosting site, and one can argue that seeing art on a rp blog still diverts traffic from the original. But rp nation is specifically for roleplaying. People don't come here looking to scroll through art, so you're likely not diverting traffic from the original artist.


That might sound like a weird distinction to be making, but the biggest problem with art theft is diverting traffic from the original image, sometimes even to the point where the repost gets more views than the original. If rpnation was an image sharing site, then there would be the risk that people would come here to enjoy the artwork instead of the original site. However, artwork is generally only used for faceclaims and setting overviews. People aren't coming here to look at the art, the images are just to give a general idea of a character's appearance. Since not everyone is able to produce or commission original artwork, this means that often they will use existing photos and art. This image is generally just used to give a better idea of what a character looks like, and will usually not be seen by anyone outside the rp. Similarly, if you see a cool picture, downloading it and texting it to your friend is entirely different from reposting it to tumblr or Pinterest or whatever.


There's a major difference between rpnation and image hosting sites. People on sites like deviantart and pixiv have come out to outright state not to repost their art on tumblr (or elsewhere on art sites). I have not seen anyone ever bring up forum sites, nor have I seen people stealing art from other players on the forum (though to be fair I've only been on the site a few months).


Thus, I don't think it's a vital conversation to have, but it is definately a useful one. I do think that if one feels strongly about never using anyone else's art, even on a small scale and with different purposes than the original, then it would be best not to use images, or use your own, or use links instead of posting the picture itself. I still think that roleplays are a fairly private setting, and therefore deviate from the typical tumblr post or deviantart post, but it's not a bad thing to be conscientious of using someone else's art. I do think that it is an acceptable usage myself, so I also feel that players should feel free to use other's art on forums if they want to.


At the same time, I think that any player should be willing to take down an image at the request of the original artist. Someone being good at art and character design does not mean that it is alright to use their artwork when they ask you not to. Rps are a fairly private setting (particularly on forums), so I don't think it's vital to ask permission for every image you use, but that also means that if an artist comes to you and explicitly asks you not to use their art, you should respect their wishes. No reason for the artist to be very upset, but no reason for the player to be possessive of something that isn't theirs either.

 

[ApfelSeine]

To specifically address the OP's examples (which I forgot to do xD ), Cress should consider whether or not they're bothered by the use of their art. If Cress doesn't want Thyme using their art, then they should ask that Thyme take it down and use a different picture done by someone else. Alternatively, if Cress doesn't care, they should ignore it. No need to dwell on something if it's not upsetting, and if it is upsetting then a polite request will do fine. No need to get up in arms over art theft unless Thyme refuses to take down the image at Cress's request. Most things can be solved more civilly than reporting people though.


For the second example, Basil should go forward with using it and not think about it much. The site should ignore it too, and so should we. No harm, no foul after all. Here are only potential reasons that one should do something about it.


1) The site is an image hosting site and posting a picture runs the risk of devaluing the original work (not the case for this particular site)


2) Someone on the site knows Cress (or knows of Cress) and is aware of fact that Cress doesn't like their work being used in rps. In this case, they should PM Basil and inform him that the artist doesn't like people using their work. Basil should then choose a different image that is not done by Cress, out of respect for the original artist.


3) Cress finds out that their art is being used and contacts Basil or the site moderators. If Basil is contacted, he should do the same as example 2. If a mod/admin is contacted, they should contact Basil and request that he use a different image.


All of these possibilities can be dealt with swiftly and easily as long as people are cooperative. It's good to show deference to the artist, but not necessary to seek out permission every time (unless one already knows that the artist doesn't like people using their art, in which case one should indeed ask first, and be compliant if turned down). The only time you should be asking permission every time you use images is if your roleplaying on an image hosting website, such as in my first example of potential conflicts. Even then, you can likely get away with it without upsetting anyone if you're on a small-scale rp blog. On a forum website like rp nation however, this isn't much of a problem.