Viewpoint How do you feel about self-inserts? Is it weird for you or just me?

[ButterflyBlueLady]

I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, I've only come here once before.
But I am curious about self-inserts, how people feel about them and how people use them.
I have two friends who've used inserts, I'll start with A.
A- She had her self-insert look as close to her as possible, the insert even acted just like her, had her traits and even a magical ability that would not best benefit her but best fit her personality.

Now B - He picked a short but very easily attractive character to play himself, he has is insert act like him and not like him, gave him 'special' traits and extreme good luck.

I'll be straight I don't like interacting with B's self-insert period. A and I are digital artists, we make our own characters. Most of which are yes very sexual in design. For a short period, I was designing characters of titan size because, yay big girls step on me please. At first I did not mind B using his insert with my best character designs but he made it very clear in sessions he wanted a harem for his insert that revolved around having the MOST beautiful women A and I had.

Ngl it put me off a bit. I know him and A IRL so him having a harem is quite out there.

When it comes to self-inserts I honestly think the characters should actually be a reflection of you and not of what you want to be. B's insert is nothing but what he wishes he was, from being a rizz master to just having women drop to their knees at the sight of him. I have started to struggle with doing RP with his insert because of how weird it is.

Doing it with A though is very easy, it's just her. Its not like she's pretending to be something she's not. Even she is off-put by B's insert.

We've done rp together for years! A and B have used all sorts of OC's and Canon characters, and still do. Never been a problem till B's insert.

I do not use an insert and honestly never will. I'm a very sickly average person. I don't want to make an image of myself that isn't true to me.

I'm curious of how other people feel about inserts. How does this work for you guys? Is there advice I can get? A way to make it easier on me to interact with his insert? I do not wish to crush B, I do not want to tell him to nuke his insert because of whatever I'm feeling.

 

[truthofself]

personally, i dont have an issue with self inserts on most occasions. i myself have a self insert; that acts exactly like me, minus some of my negative traits but they do not look like me. they look how i wish i looked. they represent me in an essence, a character i can easily play as well. but i would never think to put them in a situation to like; form a harem with my friends characters? i'd assume most self-inserts are typically used for people to place themselves into a universe they love and have a way to create stories for them to pretend they get to interact with characters from that world they enjoy. i expect people to use self inserts for horny reasons; but that just; sounds uncomfortable to say the least.

honestly your best bet is to maybe mention that the character interacts make you slightly uncomfortable and admit that perhaps your characters have no interest in those kinds of things; or you yourself do not have that wish for your characters. inserts are a way for people to express themselves but this just sounds a little too far even for me. (and im one of those freaks that writes little stories on their own pc for their enjoyment abt self inserts and fictional men)

but seriously; just try to mention it to them about your discomfort and express boundaries abt the characters bc you shouldnt have to put up with that.

 

[Loki god of BS]

I have a love hate relationship with self inserts. They're fine if they aren't cringy or flat out Mary Sues. I had one back in the day. I'd never do one now. I'm exceptionally unattractive with an unappealing personality LOL, so no self insert for me.

 

[nerdy tangents]

So I think the problem here is less with the characters and more with blurring boundaries between the character and the player.

I feel like for most people self inserts are about wishfullfillment pure and simple. What if I was prettier, more outgoing, had magical powers, etc. they are not meant to be a realistic portrayal of the person writing them.

In a normal roleplay that’s fine because there is a clear line drawn between the player and the character.

In this case it feels like B is using his character for sexual gratification essentially and that makes you uncomfortable.

Honestly my best advise would be to just let him know he is making you uncomfortable. You don’t have to tackle the issue directly if you don’t want to hurt his feelings, just say something like ::

“Hey I’m uncomfortable putting my characters into a harem situation. Do you have a different plot you want to do instead?”

Or even just “Hey I don’t think my character really fits this scenario. I prefer to write her in more XYZ type situations.”

 

[hel sucks]

i think self inserts in the style of A are fine. two of my main "all purpose" characters are former self inserts. i say former, because as you change irl, and the character changes by being affected by the story and the world they're in, there inevitably comes a point where there is nothing connecting you to them except some small aspects of their appearance.

as for the B kind of self insert, the problem there for me would be more with them being overpowered and not just a self insert or even wish fulfillment. all rp is /kinda/ wish fulfillment so like, whatever, just make it reasonable.

 

[Steve Jobs]

Unless you're trying to write someone as different from you as possible, I think everyone inserts a piece of themselves when they make an original character. How much you insert varies and personally I don't mind self-inserts as long as the line between Player and Character remains firm. If you taking what's happening to your character personally, then you should take a step back and reevaluate your relationship with your character.

The issue with B seems to be that his form of wish fulfillment (which tends to be the reason why people will do 1:1 self-inserts) is sexual and that's not what you and your friend signed up for. I advise letting him know that the harem situation is making you and A uncomfortable and see how he reacts. It's likely that B wasn't aware of how he/his character was coming off. Perhaps the three of you can come up with a plot that works for everyone.

 

[Edric Blight]

It’s a bit odd to me personally but I won’t judge what other people do or enjoy.

 

[StuartAnderson]

to some degree, we probably all do. I have definitley add a few things in like I had a character who hated mushroom (as do I) or like rock music like I do. However, I don't insert myself as in make them exactly like me. the problem with that, is they often blur the lines of roleplay and reality. people get too immersed when it's like them which can then cause tension when things don't go their way. or it makes ooc chat weird...


it's also why I never do OC x CC with someone as you're basically on there to play out their desire with a fictional character they like.

 

[Perpetual Zen]

I know this can't be an unpopular opinion but ............I only think it gets in the way if someone is also extremely emotionally invested into the character. Like, enmeshment of character person feelings can be extremely cumbersome and immature. For example, character blah blah was mean to my character that means they HATE MEH! NOOOOO. Eliciting strong emotional feelings and a snap back response validating those chaotic feelings. No, my role play is not a costume for your therapy session. It is a story. Thank you. Please, be mature about how involved with your characters projecting into your work

that's all that's all I care about just be mentally sound about it

 

[ButterflyBlueLady]

I know this can't be an unpopular opinion but ............I only think it gets in the way if someone is also extremely emotionally invested into the character. Like, enmeshment of character person feelings can be extremely cumbersome and immature. For example, character blah blah was mean to my character that means they HATE MEH! NOOOOO. Eliciting strong emotional feelings and a snap back response validating those chaotic feelings. No, my role play is not a costume for your therapy session. It is a story. Thank you. Please, be mature about how involved with your characters projecting into your work

that's all that's all I care about just be mentally sound about it

Oof this one hits home. B took it as a personal attack when one of my characters had different taste in music than his insert. It led to a small fight because I like the music he likes and he went on to point that out. But the character I created was inspired by pastel colors and Candyland, she's super upbeat and I decided her type of music would be stuff that's super cute and positive. Not hard rock. He's also quite possessive of the characters I use with his insert. If the characters I use get flirty with other characters he uses he get's very upset and again takes it as a personal attack. Its made it hard to like self-inserts.

 

[Perpetual Zen]

Oof this one hits home. B took it as a personal attack when one of my characters had different taste in music than his insert. It led to a small fight because I like the music he likes and he went on to point that out. But the character I created was inspired by pastel colors and Candyland, she's super upbeat and I decided her type of music would be stuff that's super cute and positive. Not hard rock. He's also quite possessive of the characters I use with his insert. If the characters I use get flirty with other characters he uses he get's very upset and again takes it as a personal attack. Its made it hard to like self-inserts.

That's not role playing. That's actually emotional abuse and is very manipulative behavior. Friend or no, I would immediately exit this situation.
It's not an opinion anymore when you have someone taking away your autonomy of your own characters. That's being a bully.
I mean give yourself some respect and integrity and tap out of that friendship. If you could even call it that

added: I apologies if I come off blunt I have a very low tolerance for bullies

 

[StuartAnderson]

That's not role playing. That's actually emotional abuse and is very manipulative behavior. Friend or no, I would immediately exit this situation.
It's not an opinion anymore when you have someone taking away your autonomy of your own characters. That's being a bully.
I mean give yourself some respect and integrity and tap out of that friendship. If you could even call it that

added: I apologies if I come off blunt I have a very low tolerance for bullies

I was going to say the exact same thing. it amazes me how long some people stay in contact with toxic people.
no disrespect intended to OP; i know that in reality, it's far more complicated when you're emotionally involved and invested time and energy into as opposed to a random bloke on the internet who has no skin in the game.

I still find it heart-breaking people tolerate so much disrespect. i'd have noped out of there the first time.

 

[ButterflyBlueLady]

I was going to say the exact same thing. it amazes me how long some people stay in contact with toxic people.
no disrespect intended to OP; i know that in reality, it's far more complicated when you're emotionally involved and invested time and energy into as opposed to a random bloke on the internet who has no skin in the game.

I still find it heart-breaking people tolerate so much disrespect. i'd have noped out of there the first time.

Aint going to lie I know he's toxic. He's gotten so much worse in the past few years. B, A and I have all been friends and rp partners for over 10 years. It is tough to let go even though I know in my heart I'd probably so much happier without him.

 

[Caroline1539]

Aint going to lie I know he's toxic. He's gotten so much worse in the past few years. B, A and I have all been friends and rp partners for over 10 years. It is tough to let go even though I know in my heart I'd probably so much happier without him.

I really feel that. A handful of years ago I was involved with a group roleplay where the GM had an inner circle of friends that could do no wrong. Meanwhile, he constantly railroaded everyone else and had his self insert character  literally be God.

I stayed in that situation even after it was very clear that it wouldn't change (the roleplay itself being one big loop where we'd play out the same thing just slightly different after a set amount of time) as well as it being extremely clear that this guy would just be better off writing a book instead of trying to roleplay it out with people he would constantly nitpick.

My advice to you is no matter how hard it is, cut B out of your life. You and your friend both cut ties with him at the same time and make it quick. If you have to, explain in your farewell that he was constantly ignoring your emotional boundaries, and you're not going to stand for it any longer. Block him and be done with it- I'm sure you and A can have much more fun together by yourselves.

 

[Perpetual Zen]

Aint going to lie I know he's toxic. He's gotten so much worse in the past few years. B, A and I have all been friends and rp partners for over 10 years. It is tough to let go even though I know in my heart I'd probably so much happier without him.

That is a very long period of time to get stuck into a pattern.
It is hard to exit out of a situation.
Although, it is also a lot easier than you think. Believe me, ten years is really nothing in the grand scheme of things and it doesn't mean they are walking off the plank into a pool full of dinosaurs. You just need to set a clear boundary. Don't even give a reason because to justify it only feeds into them having a reason to doubt or be upset at you. Say it has nothing to do with them but instead your exploring other creative outlets. Then maybe do just that. You need to find a group of people who value your time and effort put into story telling.

It is hard.
But you can do it!

 

[Idea]

I think self-inserts are fine in certain kinds of RPs, though I would generally hope they were avoided. Is it s little weird? Yeah, if you're not just starting out as a roleplayer it is, but it can be fun and interesting as well, and I've played with self-inserts before myself (though this was mostly in the context of thought exercises and writing prompt-based roleplays among some friends rather than a regular roleplay). I think self-inserts can work in an environment which specifically invites self-inserts for one, and for two they still need to be treated as a characters and not just as a speaker for the writer. I definitely think that a 'wishful' version of oneself could work as a self-insert in that criteria, as long as those wishes are more specific and less "be perfect and get everything I want".

With that being said, there are types of self-inserts which I particularly hate to see. One of those is the sock-puppet type of self-insert: A character with a personality so vague and so full of contradictions and non-committal stuff that in end there's little to no action that one couldn't kinda justify based on it. Not only does this defeat the entire purpose and make the character seem incredibly boring (well, if one could call such a thing a character, which I wouldn't), but it makes this kind of character the perfect metagaming vehicle that will simply act on the convenience of the writer. There's even plenty of times when these self-inserts are not intentionally made as self-inserts. It's just such a poorly made personality that they end up becoming that in practice, empty husks acting on such wild shifts in attitude that would break character if there was a character to break. In other words, sock puppets.

Another type is the type of self-insert that is crammed full of hyper-specific very personal details that the character seems to be built around and are very clear matches to the author. I'm talking about the kind of character that is entirely defined by belonging to a niche political ideology or that reads like a medical and psychiatric history, as an example. These are only sometimes called self-inserts, but giving the slightest prompting either type will rave about their personal belief in or experience with the details in question. Now, I do understand the idea that for some people RP is something with which they explore aspects of their personal life they want a safer environment to look into, including but not limited to traumatic things. However, for one thing, these types of self-inserts tend to do anything but explore the topic as exploring is something which requires questioning and nuance, and also genuine explorations still do tend to at least still construct a story around the exploration, not just slap the traits into the character and expect the narrative to bend around giving them special treatment. Worse is the expectations that players give special treatment to the character and by extension the writer. My fundamental issue here is the same one I have with bringing real world politics into a roleplay, I'm not interesting in seeing a story hijacked by that and I'm even less interested in risking a time bomb of the borderline inevitable arguments.

 

[Nu Epiq]

If that's what someone wants to do when they roleplay, cool. In all honesty, whatever makes them enjoy their roleplay experience should be the first thing. Them and their partners. I don't see anything wrong with it. Everyone has their own style of what they like.

I don't make any of my characters like or based off of me in any way. Not really my thing.
Not sure if you are still writing with B, but you might want to stop and end communication. It sounds miserable. Doesn't sound like he can distinguish between what's real and what's not if he takes what's happening in the story as personal attacks.

 

[xpstitch]

I have black magic placed on my rps so I get ghosted and ditched a lot, so take my words with a grain of salt.

I suspect if you're not picky, self inserts would be great and fine. I can see however how someone would get tired of them if they see them too often in a short time span.

There are assumptions and stigmas associated with self insert characters which are sometimes confirmed true and other times not.

I've personally seen a self insert nice-guyish vibes from someone who was clearly not at all open to criticism of any sort because it was a self insert.

I was kind of okay with it honestly, the rp fell through for a different reason.

But I can see how you could sometimes get some not so well adjusted people playing unrealistic and 'cringey' characters.

I'm not very picky, maybe in part because I have played and perhaps maybe still play self inserts myself.

There is no rule that says only cool and well adjusted people should rp. I personally have no issue with people and subsequently, characters that could use some serious therapy because at the end of the day humans are complicated and deserving of compassion.

 

[Pokeking]

Years ago, 22 years about, I had a self-insert when I first started to role play. He was a sorcerer king who had all these abilities. He even had the same name as me. I don't remember everything that happened, but I will guess to the best of my recollection. I wanted to introduce another character to roleplay as, but the GM said I couldn't do that. If I wanted another, I should have done that from the beginning. I was directed that if I wanted to roleplay as the second character, I had to write out the 1st character. He was a Gary Stu anyhow. As it turned out, the storyline didn't continue much longer after the second character got introduced. Maybe a few months? The board I was on got hacked and most of the storyline had been lost. First post after it came back was a synopsis, but interest slowed until it stopped.

It has been said that hindsight is 20/20. This is very true since I wouldn't have even used either character if I look at the roster of OCs I do have now.

PS: I have renamed that first character and reduced him to a cameo role as an NPC. I am interested in revamping him to make him suitable for roleplay.

 

[Redfork2000]

Personally I think self-inserts can work if done correctly. In the example you gave, I think I'd be perfectly fine with the kind of self-insert person A did, because while it is essentially just herself, it doesn't really feel like her character is an attempt to achieve some kind of wish fulfillment or play out some kind of fantasy of hers, it just seems like she wanted to play a character that is just like herself, and I think that's fine.

I have a large cast of characters at my disposal that I use for RPing, and some of them are partially self-inserts. I say "partially" because they're not completely me. I do put a bit of myself in them, but I mix in other traits to make them their own thing. For example, one character I have shares my introverted nature, my thirst for learning, my passion for gaming and video game development, while another I have shares my self-confidence, my love for food, etc. The two characters are very different from each other, to the point I can use them both in the same RP and they will have almost no overlap in their personalities, so they fill different roles, but they're both at least 50% me in some way. But the characters serve the purpose of the story, they are not meant to warp the entire story around them. Even if I did introduce a character that was meant to be a complete self-insert, it would still work if I'm able to properly separate myself from my character, and not show any favoritism towards my character.

The problem with B's self-insert is that it's B's self-insert is basically his fantasy for himself, and the way he made his character comes off as a Mary Sue/Gary Stu kind of character. I think there's nothing wrong with a self-insert in of itself, but the reason why it's considered sketchy by many is because a lot of self-inserts end up becoming Mary Sues or Gary Stus, and that's when it's a problem. It's no longer about telling a fun story or watching the characters react to different situations and interact with each other, the only thing that matters is the Mary Sue/Gary Stu. This is what defines that kind of character. The entire story revolves around this character, and the writer shows clear favoritism towards that character. Everything else only exists to serve the Mary Sue/Gary Stu.

This gets even worse when the writer is incapable of separating themself from the character, because this can lead to problems for everyone involved. If the writer is taking everything that happens to the character as a personal attack on themselves, then that's unhealthy, and is the other reason people tend to not like self-inserts. They're afraid of this kind of situation happening, where either the self-insert is a Mary Sue/Gary Stu, or the writer is incapable of separating themselves from the character, and thus things can get really awkward.

However, I'd say that if someone can write a self-insert without falling into either of those problems, then there isn't really a problem in my opinion. As I mentioned, I'd be perfectly fine with the kind of self-insert your other friend (A) made for herself, it's clear that even if the character is pretty much meant to be just like her, she didn't make her character as a Mary Sue, and it seems like she is able to properly separate herself from her character, thus not taking personally anything that happens in the story.

 

[MagusKaliem]

My feelings towards self inserts can be split into two.

1. If the self insert feels like a natural part of the world without it being thrown into someone's face then it shouldn't be to bad, they are a living breathing part of the world without much of a problem. They could just be working a job everyone else does, going to a school as the same character etc. Heck, they can even change the story in a subtle way without it being thrown into their face which could work well.

2. Mary/Gary Sue; we all know them we all dislike them. If they are thrown into your face and act like they are the most important person then I have a heavy dislike towards them.

 

[ViperBite]

To each their own, but personally it makes me uncomfortable if I know my partner is self-inserting themselves into their character. Reason being I’ve had several instances in the past where they blurred the lines between in character and out of character and catch feelings.

 

[ceolsige]

I won't write with self-inserts, personally. It makes me deeply uncomfortable, because there's just an inherent blurring of that IC/OOC line when I know the other person is using their own likeness or self in lieu of a character. I often see the argument that most/all characters are self-inserts in some capacity because they share characteristics with their writers - but I don't think sharing similarities with the writer makes the character a self-insert. Characters I consider too self-inserty to write against:

• use their writer as a faceclaim/reference (in cosplay or otherwise)
• are explicitly stated to be the writer, or "they're basically me"
• cannot be criticized or rejected IC or OOC without spurring an intense emotional reaction from the writer

I'll never forget the time a person I was writing with in a group dropped the fact her character was a self-insert well into the story. Unfortunately, she fell into many of the negative stereotypes surrounding writing self-inserts, including becoming too attached (quickly and with no encouragement) to me OOC when her character developed (unreciprocated) feelings for mine.

There's a time and place for self-inserts, and it's not wrong to use them! However, people writing them should be very clear and upfront about this fact as early on as possible.

 

[cuzn]

Honestly, I don't mind them. A lot of people have different reasons for writing self-inserts—for some it's wish-fulfillment, for others it's to try and lift their self-esteem, and some just can't think of an OC name in the moment and end up using their own. Some self-inserts are only related to the author in appearance or name and are otherwise full-on OCs, others are 1:1 copies of the author except with pink hair and magical powers.

All in all, I sort of treat them the same as I do normal OCs? If I have a problem with a self-insert, it's not because it's a self-insert, because I'd have the same problem if it was an OC.

On RPN, you don't know the person you're chatting with behind the screen, so you don't actually know if they're writing a self-insert or not, and despite how easy you may believe it is to be able to tell, most self-inserts or characters that started as self-inserts read as complete OCs. Characterizing yourself, when done correctly, can be pretty much just as riveting as an OC.

Example: Luke Skywalker is George Lucas' self-insert, but nobody who says that they're against self-inserts thinks of Luke Skywalker when talking self-inserts.

It all boils down to the skills and sensibilities of the author as to whether something is riveting and whether the author as a person can take criticism of their self-insert character without thinking of it as a personal attack.

 

[Jannah]

It's a huge turn-off for me, personally. It's one of the reasons why I'm a OC only player in fandom RP's. I feel like OC x Canon pairings especially are often just geared towards a person's own wish fulfillment. In cases like that I honestly feel like those stories would be better off just written as fan fiction. It can feel rather one-sided as a RP.