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Gender Options that are not Male, Female, or Unspecified

Unbridled Originality

Unbridled Originality

Stole your Sweetroll
Hi there all!


I feel sort of nervous asking for this, but as a nonbinary trans person, I kind of feel left out when the only option I have to express my gender identity within the framework of the site is by citing it as "Unspecified"


Those of you that know me or have spoken with me about this kind of stuff know that my gender is specified, very specified, in fact, and it kind of makes me uncomfortable to have to choose between misgendering myself and not identifying at all, ya know?


I'm not asking for anything on the scale of Facebook's new fifty gender options thing, just maybe a third option that says nonbinary, as a way to include all the folks who don't identify as exclusively male or exclusively female?
 
Alright I did some digging around regarding this issue.


It's not possible. At least not by default. Gender Options are Built into Xenforo and a add-on would be required (Which doesn't seem to exsist in a useful state).


The Staff here are all pretty progress/etc/yhadda yhadda yhadda. So we do understand your desire and I am looking into Solutions. Honestly, I think that in our modern age having Male/Female as the only options is kind of dated. (Unspecified means I'm not gonna tell.) There might be a solution, however I will need to discuss with The Staff as it may break things I'm not aware of, however you can expect a definitive answer within the coming days.
 
Wow, thanks for the swift response!


Heh, yeah, hence why "Unspecified" doesn't really suit people, like myself, who don't fit into the binary. I appreciate the fact that you folks are even considering this; a lot of nerd-dom can be a little...bitter when it comes to acknowledging that people like me even exist.
 
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[QUOTE="Unbridled Originality]Wow, thanks for the swift response!
Heh, yeah, hence why "Unspecified" doesn't really suit people, like myself, who don't fit into the binary. I appreciate the fact that you folks are even considering this; a lot of nerd-dom can be a little...bitter when it comes to acknowledging that people like me even exist.

[/QUOTE]
Don't worry we are already looking at some solutions, but we will need more time and make no promises.
 
[QUOTE="Unbridled Originality]Wow, thanks for the swift response!
Heh, yeah, hence why "Unspecified" doesn't really suit people, like myself, who don't fit into the binary. I appreciate the fact that you folks are even considering this; a lot of nerd-dom can be a little...bitter when it comes to acknowledging that people like me even exist.

[/QUOTE]
The rest of nerd-dom is more than willing to accommodate, I suspect. ;) After all, most of us know what it's like to be rejected for various reasons, if not the same reasons.


I note also that the option selection is labeled "Gender," which is, one of my anthropology teachers said, more of a social matter than a biological matter - the biological identifiers being male/female in that class. (I hope I didn't just offend; I'm more open-minded than I am in touch with the proper terminology.) It does seem to me that if one is going to ask for "gender" rather than "sex" one should offer, as you say, non-binary options.


Many thanks to the staff for working with this issue. :D
 
You've got the right idea, though I feel like it's important to point out that about one in every hundred people is born with some mixture of biological markers that are normally used to assign sex (and therefore gender, which is conflated with sex by a lot of people) to a child.
 
True enough. Said anthropology professor was teaching Human Osteology at the time, and there's really only two ways to go, skeletally speaking. At least at the time of the class, lo these many years ago. ;) Even then it was being discovered that taking certain hormones could cause skeletal changes that blurred the lines, yet it still tended to be clear what the person had been born to - though I expect the longer one took them, the harder it would be to make a determination.
 
[QUOTE="Unbridled Originality]Hi there all!
I feel sort of nervous asking for this, but as a nonbinary trans person, I kind of feel left out when the only option I have to express my gender identity within the framework of the site is by citing it as "Unspecified"


Those of you that know me or have spoken with me about this kind of stuff know that my gender is specified, very specified, in fact, and it kind of makes me uncomfortable to have to choose between misgendering myself and not identifying at all, ya know?


I'm not asking for anything on the scale of Facebook's new fifty gender options thing, just maybe a third option that says nonbinary, as a way to include all the folks who don't identify as exclusively male or exclusively female?

[/QUOTE]
Well thank you at least for opening my eyes, I had never heard the term nonbinary, I could figure what it meant and confirmed that with some research. But I had just never heard the term--learn something new all the time. :) See, you can teach an old dog new tricks---now if I could just learn how to retrieve that stick.....:tongue:
 
Just as an update on this topic. After a brief discussion, the staff is fully in support of this idea. However our site's options are limited. As we cannot edit the Gender field without breaking the entire system. So we have taken up the idea to the people who design Xenforo to see what can be done. We will keep you updated on any changes.


However for a temporary solution (and this is just me speaking), it is possible for the Staff to make an additional custom field for user accounts that are not a part of the "gender" system. Like I said, this custom field wouldn't necessarily come up in Gender options but would be able to be selected at a time after registration (most likely) similar to other contact information . While such an option would have to be proposed to the staff, I am wondering if that option is desirable by those who cannot fit into the currently Xenforo gender system.
 
I would appreciate and use that option. But I would also use it in ways that are easily interpreted as disingenuous, so perhaps I shouldn't.
 
Another thing to report, as by request, in the next day or so we will be changing the word "unspecified" to Other/Unspecified.


"Other" means it will make a reference to the new field we are adding where you can specify another gender of your choice.


We hope this resolves the issue as much as we can from our end.
 
While the discussion of options in this regard is very good to hear, and the efforts that are being made even more so, it is worth pointing out that a lot of "nerd"-dom is not, in fact as "accepting" as they might like to congratulate themselves for. "Tolerating" is more the positive extremis of my experience in the wider world of geekdom, with a fair dose of "why are you making such a big deal of it" added in. Unfortunately, experience in being discriminated against doesn't always translate to not discriminating, something which is brought to even more stark contrast when one peruses some of the content on Trans*-specific sites, which often promulgates an "us versus them" binary which then, rightly or wrongly, consigns the "them" to the role of stereotyped villains. It is important to understand that this is human nature, and that discriminatory behaviors and attitudes are fostered in circumstances where exposure to those being discriminated against is minimal or non-existent. Thus why, aside from the very important primary reason for expanding the options for gender self-identification, that of administrative tolerance and hospitality, the expansion also serves to broaden the horizons of the other members of the site, who, like hellrazonomega, may not have had opportunity to encounter someone who doesn't conform to the more commonly and organically formed schemata of gender and sex, and how they interact, and by broadening, increase opportunities for people to see each other as just that: people.


tl;dr, It's a good thing to do this, as it lets members of the site grow to be better people. ^^


/me finishes dropping her two cents into the box and wanders away holding an entirely incomprehensible discourse on the flavor of "yesterday" with, specifically, no one...
 
[QUOTE="e-Liz-A]While the discussion of options in this regard is very good to hear, and the efforts that are being made even more so, it is worth pointing out that a lot of "nerd"-dom is not, in fact as "accepting" as they might like to congratulate themselves for. "Tolerating" is more the positive extremis of my experience in the wider world of geekdom, with a fair dose of "why are you making such a big deal of it" added in. Unfortunately, experience in being discriminated against doesn't always translate to not discriminating, something which is brought to even more stark contrast when one peruses some of the content on Trans*-specific sites, which often promulgates an "us versus them" binary which then, rightly or wrongly, consigns the "them" to the role of stereotyped villains. It is important to understand that this is human nature, and that discriminatory behaviors and attitudes are fostered in circumstances where exposure to those being discriminated against is minimal or non-existent. Thus why, aside from the very important primary reason for expanding the options for gender self-identification, that of administrative tolerance and hospitality, the expansion also serves to broaden the horizons of the other members of the site, who, like hellrazonomega, may not have had opportunity to encounter someone who doesn't conform to the more commonly and organically formed schemata of gender and sex, and how they interact, and by broadening, increase opportunities for people to see each other as just that: people.
tl;dr, It's a good thing to do this, as it lets members of the site grow to be better people. ^^


/me finishes dropping her two cents into the box and wanders away holding an entirely incomprehensible discourse on the flavor of "yesterday" with, specifically, no one...

[/QUOTE]
Well said, it is true that such things are human nature. We tend to identify with those we see and associate with on a daily basis, those who look, act and in some ways think as we do. Not always out of malice but because we evolved that way, to conform with the group and not get kicked out of it and have to fend for ourselves. Not to defend such behavior but the sad fact is if we are not discriminating against one group we will find another.


I myself have never personally know anyone who is transitional or undecided as to their gender (and forgive me if I use the wrong terms I assure you it is out of ignorance, because I simply don't know) but I would like to think I would treat them as I treat any other person and I welcome the chance to broaden my own knowledge. I freely admit to a bit of almost vicarious zeal in learning about other cultures and sub-cultures. Humanity is so damn diverse and I just love learning all I can about all it's myriad similarities and differences. I can honestly say there was a time when I bought off on 'societies' ideas of what was 'normal' but I have happily reached a point where I don't care what a persons gender, orientation, ethnicity or greed is--so long as they can be civil to me I am willing to do the same, I try my level best to treat each person as an individual--do I fail at that sometimes---fuck yeah I do! I'm human--but I try.
 
I actually try a slightly different approach: rather than trying to treat each person as an individual, I try to narrow my categories to fit as few people as I can manage—one person per, if possible, or just a handful if not—and try to make the generalizations that I do make about each category as close to true as I can, and with a minimum of moralistic weighting of those perceived traits. It reduces my level of guilt rather a lot, and takes advantage of what my mind tries to do anyway.


The biggest thing is trying. ^^
 
[QUOTE="e-Liz-A]I actually try a slightly different approach: rather than trying to treat each person as an individual, I try to narrow my categories to fit as few people as I can manage—one person per, if possible, or just a handful if not—and try to make the generalizations that I do make about each category as close to true as I can, and with a minimum of moralistic weighting of those perceived traits. It reduces my level of guilt rather a lot, and takes advantage of what my mind tries to do anyway.
The biggest thing is trying. ^^

[/QUOTE]
Well so long as it works for you. The way my mind works that wouldn't work for me, I have had the pleasure of meeting a number of people who don't fit obvious presupposed categories. But I grew up, fortunately, with a diverse group of nerds--we had lettered jocks, goths, kids from the 'popular' crowd, stoners--we had em all, so many of the cliques that form in any large group that we were lucky to shed many of the beefs and assumptions those groups have. So I still go with the individual thing--I don't always succeed I make missteps and offend try as I might not to. But that often comes from being the consummate wise-ass who rarely takes anythings seriously, or out of sheer ignorance of what will offend. I Also get mad---I used to be VERY quick to anger, had an awful temper and got in a lot of trouble and fights when I was younger, now it take a long time for me to get mad. Sadly I'll admit once mad I stay mad a long time.


I had the pleasure of knowing a man who was a very good friend of mine, he had the most amazing temperament of any person I have known in my 44 years on this Earth. He always tried to see the best in people and even when others we worked with hated a person and even if that person frustrated him he'd still look for the good traits in them. On the rare occasion he did get mad at someone, within hours he was over it and I mean done, and looking for that person's good traits trying to find the reasons and stimuli that may have caused them to act a certain way. Hands down the most amazing person I have ever met and in the 13 years I knew him he changed the way I try to see and deal with people. Sadly he passed away last year but the impact he had on those who knew him was huge. He was the one who I learned the individual thing from and so far it has worked for me as your method has worked for you---like you said, so long as you try. (Unless you are a pupil of Yoda) :tongue:
 
Sorry to be a buzz-killington here, but I moved the Starwars discussion out and deleted the spammy posts. Let's stay on topic. (As well, news on this will likely come soonTM)
 
Did i say soon? I meant now:


http://www.roleplay.zone/account/personal-details


You can select 'Other' and then you can scroll down and there is a textbox to enter your Gender Identity. It's not a perfect solution, but it's something.


Its-something.jpg
 
Pineapple said:
Sorry to be a buzz-killington here, but I moved the Starwars discussion out and deleted the spammy posts. Let's stay on topic. (As well, news on this will likely come soonTM)
Click to expand...
I apologize--- my fault the only other place I regularly post anything other than here is a Philosophy broad for my College and topics there naturally ramble all over the place so I forget most other places are more rigid about staying on topic and respond without thinking. I don't do social media at all so my internet etiquette sucks --again I apologize and back on topic:


It is amazing to see how you guys in admin respond to items here so quickly and not just on this topic but on others as well. Kudos to all the staff for the rapid caring response and all the hard work you do.
 
[QUOTE="Unbridled Originality]Hence why I was sulking. Didn't want my thread to get binned because of people talking about Star Wars. >_>
And yay! Thank you, Pineapple.

[/QUOTE]
Then my apologies to you as well. I did not intend to cause anyone grief.
 
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