GamerGate

So... I just found out about this... politically stringed place. And it doesn't really sit well with me because it's so painfully obvious that these people have an agenda of their own in the guise of... whatever it is they are masquerading as. It's sad in a pitiable way, to search through all of the drivel that has spawned in the wake of this terrifying excuse for change, lead by people who think of themselves better, but actually aren't and some will argue they are far less so. The raving attention of their social media co-conspirators and detractors has tipped them off into something I'd like to associate as being drunk with power.


The perhaps even sadder part is that these people are getting national levels of attention. They've been invited by major corporate new stations, magazines, and even academic institutions.


What I really wanted to bring to attention though, is this. It's a long read. I think it's a good read, for anyone's head to think about this very critically, much as this poster has. Or maybe he got it from someone else. Who knows. It has profanity in it, so you have been warned.

GamerGate is, at its heart, a question of sincerity. Are game journalists sincere in their attempt to inform? Are social justice warriors sincere in their efforts to reform? Are game developers sincere in their efforts to be more inclusive? And perhaps most important: are gamers sincere, at all, or have the dual barrels of Twitter and Chan blasted all possible sincerity from the floundering corpse of gaming in general?
Sincerity is important. Without it, nobody believes you. If you don't at least appear to be sincere, every word you utter or type is automatically dismissed under a variety of waved-hands: you're a troll, you're a con-artist, you're a misogynist, you're a shill, you're an ideologue, etcetera. At the bottom of it all, these are insults meant to indict you for a lack of sincerity. This is important, because a perceived lack of sincerity is one of the only ways to dismiss someone's views without honestly engaging them . . . unless of course you are a hypocritical shithead. And we'll get to that.


GamerGate is the result of that insincerity, whether real or imagined. It doesn't really matter if a person is sincere or not. No, what matters is how they are perceived. And nothing has been more detrimental to this exercise than the use of social media. I mentioned Twitter above, and it is a great example. If GamerGate is the combined constipation of 30 years of enraged nerdism, Twitter is the laxative that has everyone spraying shit everywhere. And to continue the analogy, while you're in the bathroom spraying shit all over the walls, the real video game industry is in the parlor, sitting by the fire, sipping brandy, and counting its huge piles of money. They aren't even going to bother cleaning the bathroom when you leave. They don't use that one anyway and if they really need to, they can simply build another.


****


GamerGate ostensibly started when this guy wrote a huge, boring blogpost about his girlfriend cheating on him. This is a completely unremarkable occurrence. People get cheated on all the time, and they find their various outlets for revenge. There is some natural recoil among normal people when a man "outs" a woman in this way, for a lot of reasons: dudes are just supposed to deal with it, and anyway it is the man's fault she cheated because he wasn't taking care of business. It is the male's secret shame, a lesson learned and seared into your skin with a blistering hot branding iron: CHUMP. She fucking cheated on you, bro. You're a goddamn loser.


Of course, we all know that if the situation were reversed, if a woman wrote a plaintive screed about how a male developer cheated on her with five other women, we'd be witnessing something altogether different. There would be much pearl clutching and YOU GO GIRL!s as she proceeded to rip his life apart, and there'd be a facebook page, and a patreon account, and maybe the NFL would mandate all their players wear some new colored gloves for the next three weeks. This, too, is an unremarkable occurrence. Culturally, we tend to hold women in higher regard than men, a documented psychological occurrence called the WAW effect. That’s fine, and the way of things, and it is probably better for our species overall. But it is something we should consider in a case like GamerGate, a case that is so charged with accusations of sexism and misogyny and all of those other Bad Things.


In this case, though, the sole extent of Gjoni's “misogyny” was saying “Hey this girl cheated on me with a bunch of people who work in the game industry. She is manipulative and nasty. Watch out!” Nerds, who prior to this could likely not give a single shit about this poor guy and his relationship woes, were immediately up in arms over the slightest whiff of corruption. It turns out, Gjoni alleged that Quinn had banged several dudes who, whether before or after said banging, were in a position to influence the popularity of her game.


****


A game that, to be honest, is pretty goddamn terrible. God help me and everyone else reading as I tread lightly around this topic, because it is entirely too easy to get sucked into shitty, worthless arguments over What Makes a Game. I will merely state my opinion, and operate from here: Depression Quest is not a game, it is interactive fiction. The technical and artistic ability required to create it -- or something like it -- could be reproduced by any 13 year old with a laptop. I made more complex games in BASIC when I was 9, and I am hardly the world’s most computer savvy individual. As a piece of writing it is dull, angsty, earnest, and plodding. It is simply a bad job. Bad.


This fact was not lost on the multitude of reviewers who chimed in about the game; go read the Steam reviews or Metacritic. I have not seen such a universal panning of a game since the Mass Effect 3 fiasco, and that was a triple A studio. If Zoe Quinn is famous for anything, it is for making shitty games. She’s also great at drumming up publicity. This whole brouhaha has sprouted for her a score of interviews, including a pabulum-hurling schlock fest in the Goddamn New Yorker. Like Mugatuu, I feel like I’m on crazy pills.


But the shittiness of the game has been given a pass by more enlightened game critics because of the subject matter it tackles: okay, sure, maybe not the best game, but it is taking on a difficult subject and so it Deserves Our Support. Support is an overriding theme here, as if her suffering with depression means that her work -- whether a game or not, whether artistic or not -- deserves to be elevated above the work of millions of other hungry game developers, both male and female, who want to get their games reviewed, or greenlit, or crowdfunded, but who refrain from cheap appeals to emotion and sentiment. You could probably go on Steam Greenlight right now, pick a fucking game at random, and you'd almost certainly get one that was better than Depression Quest.


I'm not picking on ZQ’s developer abilities. Maybe she’s a great developer and these are just growing pains. But the problem is, we can’t tell. Not only because the game "journalism" industry is filled with people who don't know how to disclose their financial ties, but because the gaming press has seemingly lost its goddamn collective mind. Go to metacritic and look at the number of official reviews for Depression Quest. Then look at the number of user reviews. It appears that our cadre of professional critics are gracious enough to admit the game isn't that great . . . but they won’t say it officially. I have never seen a game so universally panned by users, yet manage to tally only one single goddamn review from an official outlet. Why do you think that is?


I’ll tell you why: She Needs Our Support. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Unless you are talking about gamers, because they all have neckbeards.


This guy pretty much nails Zoe Quinn. Anyone who reads the chat logs between her and her boyfriend should -- if they have a modicum of intellectual honesty -- immediately recognize an abusive, manipulative psycho. If that’s not enough, her documented claims of telling fantastic lies ala stabbing a man in the face tell us all we need to know about her character. Anyone that has known a person with BPD or manic depression understands just how manipulative, just how sneaky and dishonest and downright nasty, these people can be. Zoe Quinn isn’t the only person who grew up depressed, or who grew up with mentally ill family members. When I read those chat logs, the familiarity of her behavior sent a fucking chill up my spine. And the New Yorker went and did fucking puff piece on her. Unreal.


Did they read the chat logs? Did they not wonder for at least one nanosecond if it was a good idea to paint a sympathetic view of a woman who makes the utterly ludicrous statement that cheating on a partner is rape, and then goes and cheats on her partner? What fucking world am I living in, when such a crazy person is allowed to smugfart such condescending blather as we read in that piece:


“They’re clearly hurting,” Quinn wrote in an e-mail. “People don’t viciously attack anyone without having some deep-seeded loathing in themselves.”


They must have, indeed, you poor thing. They must have.


Should Zoe Quinn get death threats? Of course not. Nobody should. But she is a liar, a manipulator, a cheat, and a hypocrite. I don’t believe in karma, but goddamn. It should at least make you think.


So started GamerGate.


****


Gjoni’s revelations re: ZQ’s shitty personality prompted some internet losers to be nasty towards her on Twitter. This, it seems, is the impetus behind labeling GamerGate a “misogynist” movement, though recently even the hardcore idiots have backed-off (mostly thanks to #notyourshield) and have instead started saying that GG has misogynist origins. To be sure, the comments that Quinn received were certainly misogynist. But the problem here, and the problem in the larger contexts of both GamerGate and internet identity politics in general, is one of association. Twitter is the type of medium that lets any worthless idiot type whatever worthless shit he wants. It is the easiest thing in the world for any person to leave a hateful, misogynist comment and then append #GamerGate. It proves nothing, any more than me writing “Sieg Heil #GamerGate” makes the movement a Nazi tent revival. Do you get it?


Because this is what happens when you are dealing with a communication medium that has no gatekeepers. This is the kind of open publishing, the one free of oppressive patriarchal restrictions that "unfairly" enthroned things like education and experience as markers of quality, that you assholes have been asking for. This is news and reporting without anyone at the helm. Think about that the next time you're feeling optimistic about the state of New Media.


All of this is occurring in an atmosphere of burner and parody accounts, IP blocking, false flag operations, massive thread deletions, and a million other things that destroy our ability to authenticate anything. This is Twitter, and social media in general. Everything is free, so there is no intellectual investment. Believe whatever the fuck you want, and if you don't like someone, block their feed or shadowban them. They are probably misogynist virgins anyways.


Mailing lists -- wherein games “journalists” vowed to not cover any of the recent unpleasantness because “misogyny” -- put paid to the idea that there was any meaningful separation between The Church of Reporting and the Video Game PR State, even in the supposedly unspoiled land of indie game development. But these misogynist neckbeards who don’t care about corruption -- sincerity, remember -- seemed awfully competent at eliciting real change from several video game publications. And indeed some of the very publications, who wrote these GamerGate neckbeards off as misogynists that weren't really concerned about corruption and collusion in the gaming press, seemed to pick awfully convenient times to change their reporting and disclosure policies. The mind balks at such coincidence.


This could have been the end of things. But then we learned that gamers were dead.


***


One of the most interesting things about the anti-GamerGate crowd is how little they actually contribute to the industry. Zoe Quinn makes one shitty “game,” and some thing where you stare at Jeff Goldblum (it’s ironic, trust me, you don’t get it!). Phil Fish made one decent game, but then he realized he would have to create more so he faked a temper tantrum, quit making games, and blamed it all on the toxic atmosphere. Brianna Wu made a mobile game at the cost of $12,000 dollars, and it took four years. Interestingly, she made a point of using female playtesters and having an all female design team, but for some reason all of the character models could give Dragon’s Crown a run for its money. I’m sure someone will come along and tell us how empowering this is.


These are the developers at the heart of the of all this wailing and carrying on, these threats and vulgarities and whatnot. One is forced to wonder why no notable, major league developers have received any death threats. I have a theory, want to hear it? BECAUSE THEY ARE BUSY MAKING GAMES, NOT PLAYING GRABASS ON THE INTERNET.


The folks at Gawker coined a great word: writering. Tom Cococa says this term is used “to describe the tribe of writers whose principal writerly concern is being writerly, and who spend all their time congratulating one another on their writing and promulgating correct rules for writing.” There is a very similar phenomenon in gaming, which for lack of originality I will just call “developering.” And you see it in all of this worthless social media-izing of the game industry. There is a crowd of “developers” and “critics” and “writers” who don’t want to talk about games anymore. They want to tell you what’s problematic with XYZ, how this or that reinforces gender stereotypes, how someone was mean to them when they were 12 so they’ve been fighting the videogame patriarchy ever since. They couldn’t give a flying fuck about game mechanics, or narrative quality, or difficulty levels. Game development comes in a distant second to pontificating on Twitter, as if what they wanted all along was to be able to say they were a DEVELOPER and then, finally, they could start talking about what really matters. Fuck the actual games, let’s talk identity politics and be snarky in comment sections and maybe -- praise Gaia! -- end up on HuffPo. Fuck producing anything of value, let’s argue and do our best to be outraged. These assholes want nothing more than the post-modernization of video game discourse, and nowhere is this more apparent than in Anita Sarkeesian’s videos.


I actually agree with, oh, 60% of what Ms. Sarkeesian has to say in her videos. No, seriously, I do! There is a dearth of writing talent in the game industry, mostly because major studios still believe Godfather Carmack’s quote about stories and porn. Most developers really do think game stories are irrelevant; at least, one is inclined to think this way given any cursory glance at most AAA stories. There are a shitload of tropes, and they are lazy, and a lot of them are sexist (though I do not think this kind of sexism is anything worse than barely harmful, in the grand scheme of things). Sarkeesian is taking on a severely under-appreciated task, and like Quinn, I find the death and rape threats against her to be deplorable, immature, and counterproductive.


But that other 40% is a fucking whopper of a problem. I’m not going to deconstruct her videos, except to point out that she often engages in cherry picked, or in some cases drastically misleading, commentary. She has also refused to substantially answer any of the criticisms leveled at her work, except to dismiss it all as misogyny. She repeatedly makes smarmy claims like “These boys think someone is coming to take their games away,” eyeroll, but then makes Tweets about reviewers failing to penalize a game like Bayonetta 2 because it doesn't sufficiently stifle the male gaze, or some other silly shit. Let he who has eyes, see: this is two-faced assholery. You’re not trying to take anyone’s games away, but you will attempt to excoriate anyone who plays them, or anyone who fails to review them outside of your sociological model? Well that’s alright, then.


We come back to sincerity. One of the reasons people don’t like Anita is because they doubt her honesty. In one video she claims that she has been gaming since she was a kid. In another video she says she doesn’t play games. Which is it? Zoe Quinn says cheating is rape, and then cheats. Which is it? Brianna Wu is a developer that has deplored the depiction of female bodies in gaming, then makes a game with big-titted Barbie Dolls. Which is it? Phil Fish whines about the nastiness in gamer culture, then goes on Twitter rants where he shits on everyone. Which is it? Leigh Alexander decries the current culture of nastiness in the gaming media, and then goes on to bully both men and women on Twitter, threatening to end their careers? Which is it? Jim Sterling claims to have received thousands of threats via social media, but a 10 second search reveals that he got exactly none. Which is it?


Why is it so hard to get the straight dope from these people?


Why is everyone so full of shit?


***


Leigh Alexander is probably the best example of someone who adds nothing to the medium of video gaming. Check out some of these tweets:


it’s funny how dudes who are ‘aspiring games journalists’ tweet bullshit at me as if I cannot instantly kill all their dreams


"maybe mean of me to burn a young female writer but, sorry, this is not gonna be a career for her


This is a woman who writes for Time? This is the person who gets a phone call and a request to explain GamerGate to the masses? Are you fucking kidding?


****


Alexander’s “Gamers Are Dead” nonsense dragged GamerGate into the limelight, or at least the limelight that exists in the shady boundaries between gaming websites, PR, and the pocketbooks of the gaming industry. Her article -- along with several others -- made the basic argument that the existence of the traditional gamer (read: Cheeto-stained virgins hanging out in mom’s basement) was over, that game developers didn’t have to pander to this audience anymore. Aside from the insulting, condescending and patronizing tone of all of this garbage, it had the unique characteristic of being entirely untrue.


Phil Fish’s platformer sold 1 million copies in a year. For comparison, Original Sin sold half that number in two months. And for even better comparison, consider that the entire Call of Duty Franchise -- perhaps the single game series that is most associated with bros and EXTREME gaming -- has sold over 136.6 MILLION units.


Think about that for a second. 136.6 million units over the course of a decade, and gamers are dead? Go ahead, explain that. I’ll wait.


***


If there is one thing that unites all of these annoying hipsters it is their unwarranted certainty. None of them appear to have considered that they might be on the wrong side of things, but beyond that they appear unable or unwilling to engage basic facts, the most immutable being this: a few assholes tweeting threats to you does not invalidate the whole movement. And you might not even be able to call GamerGate a “movement” per se, since anyone can join, and subsequently say whatever the hell they want. If anything has been shown dead in this whole fiasco, it is the concept of solidified movements existing online. Which is probably for the best, since that means people will have to get off their fat asses.


The other interesting thing to come out of all this nonsense is the increased public scrutiny on the way some of these people choose to argue. I’ll just use Sarkessian as an example here, because really she makes the best one. Her arguments are the epitome of the post-modern critique of media, which might explain why some of them are so terrible. Here’s what I mean.


Regardless of how you personally feel about the post-modern approach to discourse, one of the worst effects it has had on science and philosophy is that it successfully confused the Critical and Quantitative/Qualitative theories, and nowhere is this more apparent than in Sarkeesian’s videos. She does not appear to respect -- or even understand -- the boundaries between these two approaches. This is why she can explain why a trope is offensive to her (Critical theory) and then go on to say it perpetuates sexism in the culture (Quantitative/Qualitative theory). Whether she likes it or not, the first one is her opinion, while the second one is a testable claim about facts in the universe that we can measure. You do not get make this claim unless you have the facts at your disposal -- which she does not.


Her videos are filled with this shit. Everytime she correctly identifies a trope (which, as I said earlier, I have about a 60% chance of agreeing with, so I know she’s not half-cocked) it seems she is unable to keep herself from going that one step further and making a claim about causality, a claim that she is eminently unqualified to make because she does not have any data. She has nothing. Not a goddamn thing.


What Anita Sarkeesian has successfully done is borrow the credibility of Qualitative Analysis and used it to shield her Critical Analysis from criticism. And the hell of it is, so many of her readers are too dumb to understand that she is doing this, because most of them probably don’t know what Critical Theory is, and why you can’t make claims about the state of the universe with it. This is why, in fields like Communication or Political Science, Critical theories are always lambasted way more than Quantitative or Qualitative ones. Anyone who has been to grad school in the social science disciplines can tell you which theses get more respect: it is always the latter two, because they require the actual gathering of data, as opposed to a Critical thesis, in which you can basically just make shit up provided you use terms like “problematic” and “dialectical.” If you don’t believe me, read Alan Sokal’s hilarious hoax, or the all-too-real and hilariously awful Bad Writing Contest from yesteryear.


These are symptoms of a larger problem, really, and Anita Sarkeesian isn't even the worst offender. Take a look at some tweets from this idiot John McIntosh:


You know something has gone terribly wrong when acts of violence are framed as "badass" rather than to elicit feelings of disgust or sadness.


Brutal violence has been normalized, glamorized and celebrated in gaming for so long that to even question it now is considered blasphemy.


Scientific consensus is that playing violent video games increases aggression and aggressive behaviors. Amazing that so many are still in denial.


Let’s just look at the last one, and consider how wrong this moron is. Links between video game violence and aggression are so far from being solidified -- or even agreed upon -- it is almost impossible for me to overstate it. Read anything by Christopher Ferguson to see how badly the science around this issue has been abused, or better yet, any of the recent takedowns of Brad Bushman’s hilariously inept, possibly dishonest, attempts to paint the picture that a consensus exists.


What’s great about this idiot and his idiotic tweets is that he so clearly doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about, but so many people are nodding their heads in agreement anyway. Media effects as a theory has been a contentious, hot-button issue since the Payne Fund Studies. Every decade or two, we see exactly this type of upheaval, and the field is full of scientists acting as activists who end up embarrassing themselves. Look up Wertham to see how well this has historically worked out.


All of this -- the lack of awareness, the emotional histrionics, the confusion of critical and quantitative theories, the attempts at bullying, the double-speak, the bullshittery -- are at their core silent concessions by these people that they don’t know what the fuck they are doing. To call them out of their depth is to insult depth.


***


The pro-GamerGate side has also occasionally failed to comport itself as collection of reasonable individuals -- or at least, people who associate themselves with it have. We could sit here and go back and forth about who doxxed who, who threatened who, etc, and we’d likely come up even. Milo was mailed a fucking syringe. Jay3D Fox took her videos down because she was reportedly threatened by a Sarkeesian fan. Other pro-GG folks have received death and rape threats, or been doxxed, or otherwise fucked with.


The only difference between these two groups is that the pro-GG side has generally refrained from making a goddamn production out of it. Anita and Brianna were quick to take to Twitter and let everyone know they were safe (!) and gosh this kind of stuff just has to stop. Of course it has to stop, but look at the language being employed by these people, and the mainstream media trying to report on this: they are invariably “forced to flee!” their homes, as if a horde of on-fire zombies was smashing down their door frames. Zoey Quinn is now living a nomadic, couch-surfing existence. But wait, wasn’t she doing that already? Oh. It is all so rushed and panicked and filled with urgent language, but never panicked or urgent enough to forego a quick social media update to let everyone know everything is fine! Ask Ayaan Hirsi Ali what it is like to fear for your life, to really fucking fear for it, and see if she was keeping her waiting public informed with helpful twitter updates, and oh by the way here is my Patreon account!


These threats are nasty, and uncalled for, and anyone making them should be arrested. But do let us not pretend that certain people haven’t taken this ball and fucking run with it, in order to garner the maximum amount of sympathy (read: cash). Add to this the proclivities of a known liar like Quinn, and it is supremely reasonable to wonder if these threats are even real. Once again, we just don’t know. And you’ve already been caught lying. So why should we believe you?


****


Most of the people involved in GamerGate are, I would guess, normal people who believe in the egalitarian ideal. They would certainly not condone death threats or abuse, but at the same time, this kind of behavior extends far beyond the world of video gaming and its hordes of willing internet losers. There is a problem with abuse and death threats in general, on line. Gaming is not unique in this regard, and if you don’t believe me, go to a Washington Redskins forum and tell them their team name is racist. They’ll fucking cut you.


The difference is that the gaming subculture seems to be represented (unfairly, I would add) by wilting violets who, though they paint themselves as tech savvy hardcore gamers, act genuinely shocked when someone is mean to them in 140 characters or less. Whoopty fucking doo, guys, welcome to the fucking internet. Are you still connecting with America online?


Of course, only a fool would believe that this shock is genuine, or at least genuine for long. How can a person like Leigh Alexander claim to be totally upset at online abuse, and then go on to make tweets where she threatens to ruin someone’s life? Or write a piece where she denigrates a few million people? I have a feeling that, a year from now, everyone is going to look back on this mess and wonder what they hell they were thinking in giving these lunatics a platform from which to speak.


I started this screed on the concept of sincerity, and I will end on the same note. I believe that Sarkeesian et al are sincere in their desire for social justice. To a point. I also believe that GamerGate is sincere in its desire for journalistic integrity. To a point. I also think both groups have exploited other, less savory aims under cover of a righteous fight, and those aims are as varied as they are personally uninteresting to this author. I find the treatment of women in the game industry to leave much to be desired, but I also find the antics of Alexander, Quinn, Fish, and Sterling to be so ridiculous and scummy that I cannot side with them. Fuck, I can’t even believe their versions of events.


What I can say is that from where I am sitting, they appear to be manipulative assholes; perhaps for different personal reasons, but manipulative all the same. They don’t strike me as sincere individuals. For example, I don’t believe Sarkeesian when she says she doesn’t want to take anyone’s games away. I believe that, if she had it within her power, she’d censor the media she doesn’t like. This article does a great job of describing her motives, but let me go right to the transcript:


Given the reality of that larger cultural context, it should go without saying that it’s dangerously irresponsible to be creating games in which players are encouraged and even required to perform violence against women in order to “save them”.


Whenever someone says something “goes without saying,” and then goes to say it? Assume it didn’t go without saying.


Read the whole thing, if you haven’t already, and you will no doubt pick up on all the cues. She never outright calls for censorship, because she knows that wouldn’t fly. That’s one step too far for most of her viewers. But social pressure? Shaming people into thinking they are creating a hostile environment, or a dangerous one? Fuck yeah. Perfectly allowed. She creates an imaginary problematic narrative -- that someone would actually be influenced by this idea that you need to hurt women to save them -- and then indicts the game for providing it. It is absurd, and the only possible reason for it to exist (besides genuine stupidity) is to help push an agenda. She displays the same lack of scientific thought as MacIntosh, and the end result of this line of “reasoning” is censorship, whether she realizes it or not.


Ultimately that’s what his whole GamerGate brouhaha is about -- what games will be made, and who will make them? Recent statistics show us that the gaming public is evenly split between men and women, but most people understand that the inclusion of mobile gaming into these numbers heavily skews the results. Nobody seriously believes that half of all CoD players are female. But at the same time, violent action games do have a substantial number of female fans and players, which if anything signifies the major game developers are at least getting something right.


***


The dumbest thing these people have done is alienate other believers in equality. They have created battle lines where none existed before, and they have monopolized both the idea and the practice of social justice. It is impossible, according to these crazy assholes, to care about real egalitarianism, but also support GamerGate. Rebellion against this paternalistic horseshit is the main drive behind the #notyourshield campaign, as many minority gamers finally got tired of being co-opted for this ridiculous campaign; one can only hope that minority gamers don’t stop here.


I am a progressive liberal, at least in the American sense. I believe in many leftist ideals, from the critical examination of gender roles, to the concepts of income equality, to the idea that government can be a helpful force for good in people’s lives. I believe in equality, but I believe in real equality, and for some reason, I don’t think Alexander et al understand what that means. Their behavior indicates they do not, and I shudder to think of what their version of utopia looks like. Do they want to live in a hermetically sealed bag, where personal offence is the greatest crime, and the freedom of expression (and here I speak of the freedom to make games, not the freedom to threaten) is enslaved to the whim of others' feelings? I would help aliens burn the earth to cinders before I’d see such a thing come to pass.


In a very real sense, I don’t understand Anita Sarkeesian when she talks about a video game and the Male Gaze. It makes no sense to me, not because I am stupid -- I’ve likely read the same gender theory materials that she has -- but because I cannot fathom the contents of her worldview. I cannot picture a human brain that operates on such vapid whininess. I cannot picture how a human brain is so threatened by male sexuality that big boobies in a video game makes her angry. It is like watching someone fill a car with water instead of gasoline, and then watching it accelerate anyway. It is fucking confounding to me, how these delicate flowers live in the big bad world and are not (yet) crushed by it.


GameGate is about a lot of things, really, but it has all come to a head because nobody believes anyone else. I’m guilty of that, too, but in my defense the other side has pathological liars. I suppose it doesn’t matter anyway, and in my experience I can tell you that the publishers are listening. And they’re not listening to Anita, because Anita doesn’t buy their games. Neither does Alexander, or Quinn, or Fish, or any of those other annoying hipsters who want to make ironic 8 bit pixelated text adventures with MIDI music in RGB because, like, man, it’s deconstructing the essence of the game, man, into, like, its discrete parts. Nobody but the tiny cloister of indy/hipster designers/”journalists” who “make games” from their local cupcake/coffee/artisan couscous shop while subsisting on Patreon dollars and Arcade Fire tracks from their Sony Walkmans gives these games anything more than a passing glance. I’m glad they exist, because I like variety. And I appreciate the competition with the big game studios because it never hurts for them to stay on their toes. But honest to god, if these people think they are changing gaming, they are fucking deluding themselves.


As I finish this, Anita Sarkeesian has just canceled a speech at Utah because of a threatened school shooting. I won't say that I don't believe it -- yet -- but according to one outlet, the email threat contained a reference to the Montreal Massacre. Now as an American, I'm pretty well-versed in mass shootings. I can likely name all of the big ones. But some reason, I've never heard of the Montreal Massacre . . .


The “ Montreal Massacre” mentioned in the email refers to the crimes of Marc Lépine, who killed 14 women, injured 10 and also killed four men in order to “fight feminism” in 1989 before committing suicide.


Wow. A deranged shooter just happens to know about some feminist-hating asshole's massacre from 25 fucking years ago, when literally there are a dozen other more recent school shootings that he could have mentioned to elicit the feelings he wanted? Why do I feel like this is exactly the kind of thing a fake threat, perhaps made by someone on "the other side," would make? I'm sure Anita or her compatriots know all about the Montreal Massacre, because they've studied it ad naseum, given the subject (violence against feminism.) But why the hell am I reading about it? In America?


You see what I mean? I sincerely wish I didn't feel this way. I feel genuinely terrible that I cannot believe this woman lock, stock, and barrel. But there is a knot in my stomach, some vague kind of warning in the back of my head, and I can't put my finger on it. Everyone is lying all the goddamn time, about everything. I don't trust anyone's motives, and misogyny has nothing to do with it. I simply don't believe these peoples' motives. I don't. And I can't act like I do.


We come back to sincerity again. Nothing is solved.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I came down here to make just such a thread. Thank you for sharing that interesting perspective, Ignitedstar.


Pers'nally, I'm quite content to accept GamerGate as toxic until I see them stop attacking mostly-female indie devs, and start going after Activision, IGN, and the other provably corrupt publisher/journalist relationships.
 
I support GamerGate 100%


Yes there are trolls, however if you pay attention and listen to the bigger voices in the movement, they are trying to weed out those trolls. Heck, if you go to almost any GamerGate page on facebook you'll see links to a GamerGate petition to demand the FBI investigate the threats made against female game devs and even demanding an investigation into the threats made against Anita Sarkesian (personally, I am 100% certain that a huge chunk of those "threats" were sent either from and to herself to make her look more like a victim, and from her followers for the same purpose, because she pushes the victim angle WAAAAY too much to actually be sincere)


Also, if you look up the "Fine Young Capitalists" makers of the GamerGate mascot "Vivian James", they've been raising money to support female game developers, encouraging female game developers, and when you look at the hashtag "notyourshield" made by women and POC who are sick of "Social Justice Warriors" using them to claiming that video games are racist and sexist, this just drives home how much of a truly diverse community GamerGate is.


Besides, look at both sides and the worst they've done and how they handle things.


GamerGate is accused of sending death/rape/bomb threats to anti-gamergaters. - Gamergate demands an FBI investigation into these claims and encourages members to expose these trolls for who and what they are and call for a sit-down for a civil and honest discussion about this issue.


Anti-GamerGaters are accused of lying, sending threats and using media manipulation - anti-GamerGaters respond by first, hiring people to pose as GamerGaters to try and discredit it through trolling from the inside (links to sources below), encouraging harrassment of bullying people who are pro-GamerGate (by Gawker Media, the flagship of the anit-Gamergate side of things, which lead Mercedes and Adobe to drop their advertisements from Gawker websites, hurting them financially) and refusing to sit down and have an honest discussion about the issue.


Not to mention the ones who started this like Anita Sarkesian embezzled the money she made off kickstarter whch she claimed would go towards making her videos, which also stole clips from other people's channels and completely outright lies about many games (like hitman, where she has the protagonist knock out 2 hookers, drags one's body over the other, and dumps it in a container, claiming this is a, if not THE goal of the game, even though you get penalized for hurting civilians in the game and she dragged the body right past the container she dumps it in so she can drag it over the other stripper's body) and so on...


Gawker hires people to infiltrate and discredit GamerGate, a dishonest tactic of manipulation, not exactly the "honest" thing to do - http://theralphretort.com/gawker-owner-nick-denton-admits-gamergate-sabotage/ (screenshot of Gawker owner Nick Denton admitting it on the linked page)


Gawker journalists endorse the bullying of Gamers and anyone who supports Gamergate, which leads Adobe to drop them as a sponsor. http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2014/10/when-anti-bullying-efforts-backfire.html


A video from the youtuber "Thunderf00t" criticising Anita Sarkesian's embezlement of money and how she manipulates game scenes to fit her narrative AKA taking game bits out of context so she can lie. [media]



[/media] (personally I don't like Thunderf00t's smug self-satisfied tone, but he does make a bunch of good points)
Webpage of the "Fine Young Capitalists" the "generals" of the GamerGate Army. http://www.thefineyoungcapitalists.com/


So yeah, I support Gamergate, and if you look on any social media page for GamerGate, you will find men and women of all races, ages, creeds and nationalities communicating positively, friendly and constructively, and if you look on the #notyourshield pages, you will see pro-gamergate men and women who are mostly non-white and many non-westerners, but all united in the shared passion of videogames.


worth a watch as an introduction to #GamerGate and #notyourshield. [media]



[/media]
so... YEAH!


iX5CnXV.png
 
So Gamergate is now about demanding people stop being mean to Gamergate?


I'm not about to defend Sarkeesian; I don't approve of her methods. Neither Gawker, because Gawker is a toilet. Can't actually argue with the shitty things they've done.


But are you guys still ringing the 'journalistic ethics' bell? 'cause I think Activision and friends threatening to cut ad revenue for already underpaid journalists if the review scores aren't acceptable is something that needs addressing. I've not actually seen evidence of Gamergate doing good, besides funding FYC (which is great), nor a clear motive or manifesto.
 
I support Gamer Gate, although you need to understand there is a lot of disagreement inside Gamer Gate, and it is by no means a solid, unified movement (if you can even call it a movement). But through this, I've been able to meet and talk with like-minded people, and it has become important to me. I used to read Kotaku, until now. I used to go on Polygon, until now. The reason why I don't feel disappointment towards IGN is probably because I rarely go there, and because they weren't so easily jumping into the whole bashing gamers train with a dramatic post:


http://www.polygon.com/2014/8/28/6078391/video-games-awful-week


Quoting: "This week, the obstinate child threw a temper tantrum, and the industry was stuck in the metaphorical grocery store as everyone was forced to suffer through it together. But unlike a child, the people behind these temper tantrums are hurting others. It's time to grow up. Let's not wait until next week to start." Polygon addressing to us, gamers, their audience, their customers, as children, when people simply point out how biased they are.


http://kotaku.com/we-might-be-witnessing-the-death-of-an-identity-1628203079


Quoting: "Once you're done here, I'll see you next week, where we can hang out as thoughtful, considerate human beings and enjoy video games as they are, not what some folks feel they can dictate from a dark corner of the internet." Here, after helpfully pointing out to us that "gamers" doesn't mean "all gamers", Kotaku tells us we should enjoy games as they are. That's exactly the point most people are making against Anita's arguments, and ironically, she kind of appears as someone trying to dictate from a dark corner of the Internet what games should be like instead. So this really makes no sense for Kotaku to even write this after backing Anita.


Turns out, these (and apparently a few other sites) sites have a group page online where they coordinate. And while it would be perfectly fine for constructive discussion and criticism towards games, this isn't what they were doing not too long ago. I'm ready to bet they were jumping behind people like Zoe Quinn and Anita because they all agreed to do so. This is the problem I have with gaming journalism; I don't want a political agenda to be there, behind it all. It's gaming, don't mix it up with your political ideologies or, worse yet, who you're sharing a bed with. We just want the reviews, not a coordinated attack towards gamers who are calling out your nonsense. Here is MundaneMatt's take on this which I find pretty interesting:


[media]



[/media]
And sure, no media source is entirely without a bias. But when it becomes something as blatant as this and touches something that is very close to my heart, yes, I have a problem with it and yes, I'm going to call it out. Because this is what they're essentially lacking:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards


Quoting: "While various existing codes have some differences, most share common elements including the principles of—truthfulness, accuracy, objectivity, impartiality, fairness and public accountability—as these apply to the acquisition of newsworthy information and its subsequent dissemination to the public."


Yes, I have a problem with someone getting good reviews by being on good terms with the journalist. But it doesn't stop there for me, I also have a problem with companies paying sites to give good reviews or not allowing any reviews to be released until people have pre-ordered a game. So, no, I'm not excluding anyone from my criticism, but sites like Kotaku and Polygon and Gawker as mentioned above definitely make the top of the list right now with their nonsense. Mind you, this discussion is much older than Gamer Gate, it's nothing new but it's only now that people are paying more attention to it. Some interesting videos to watch for anyone interested:


[media]



[/media]
Thunderfoot's latest take on the subject.


[media]



[/media]
Several women addressing Gamer Gate.


[media]



[/media]
A Youtuber addressing Zoe Quinn.


This is my view on the matter.
 
You know there's no evidence of people getting good reviews by relationship, right? Quinn is a horrible person, yes, but she never got positive reviews for sleeping with anyone. There's some evidence that Phil Fish's Fez was involved in some award-rigging, but that's another issue.


You're not mad at IGN because they didn't attack you, so their continued review-sales go unchallenged?


Honestly; anyone who felt their feelings were hurt by 'gamers are dead' and feel the need to push back probably need to examine their priorities.


On the topic of politics in games... fucking what?


Are games art? If games are art, then why the fuck would you want to censor political and social themes? If games are not art, why are you getting so upset about toys?
 
Concerning Zoe Quinn, I recommend these two on top of those I already showed you. Also judging from how you responded seven minutes after I posted, you probably didn't look at any of the videos I presented. That's a shame.


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5-51PfwI3M[/media]


http://imgur.com/a/4VOcx


I'm going to quote my earlier post just in case you didn't read it and highlight the important part for you so you'll have a proper answer for the IGN part: "Yes, I have a problem with someone getting good reviews by being on good terms with the journalist. But it doesn't stop there for me, I also have a problem with companies paying sites to give good reviews or not allowing any reviews to be released until people have pre-ordered a game. So, no, I'm not excluding anyone from my criticism, but sites like Kotaku and Polygon and Gawker as mentioned above definitely make the top of the list right now with their nonsense. Mind you, this discussion is much older than Gamer Gate, it's nothing new but it's only now that people are paying more attention to it."


I'm not specifically "hurt", but as gaming journalism sites it's a little bit unfair for them to address to their audience which generates ad revenues in a disrespectful manner. You're going to tell me all I need to do is not to go on those sites. That's what I am doing, while also letting them know their behavior is unacceptable considering we, gamers, are what they depend on to exist.


Games are entertainment to me. Advancing a political agenda into a form of entertainment isn't something I'm a big fan of, no matter what form of entertainment that is. Again, I'm not discriminating, but since we're on the matter of games, that's what I'll focus on.
 
Ah, yes, pardon me - but don't you think that kind of provable, financial manipulation of game reviews is a greater ethical breach than an alleged exchange of sex for positive reviews?


An exchange which did not happen, because Grayson's only mention of Depression Quest came before he met Quinn, and most coverage of Depression Quest has praised the intent rather than the execution?


Though the failure to cover the FYC incident and to address Quinn's


I have seen the bulk of these videos before, and their points continue to be largely irrelevant (though admittedly I read transcripts of Thunderf00t because listening to the man speak is a chore). With the exception of the women addressing Gamergate which I'll listen to now.


I fail to see how any of this, particularly the editorial bias of many journalistic outlets towards games which strive for artistic merit, harms your ability to enjoy games as items of entertainment. I fail to see how the desire for more well-written female and minority characters harms your ability to enjoy games purely as entertainment. Call of Duty is still being made (although it has political themes). Assassin's Creed isn't slowing down (despite it's constant political themes). Far Cry 4 looks set to improve on the social themes 3 attempted to address. Arkham Knight is probably going to be another awesome Batman simulator.


Could you explain precisely how you feel the behaviour of these websites harms you? I'm simply seeking to understand.
 
Like I said, this discussion has been going on for years. Zoe Quinn being very known in the media and getting involved with this, while also representing the female side of the indie part of the industry was a huge blow that sort of started this whole GamerGate thing and the "conversation" has further expanded from there. So, it doesn't really matter, in both cases it's unacceptable, but the thing is getting big only recently. A shame really, but at least people are (I hope) hearing us out on the issue.


The thing with Quinn is that she probably wouldn't have made it to Steam with her game without the attention, which I suppose she gained by sleeping with from what I understand is five other people (who are journalists). Even if that was not the case, I can't help but to be very suspicious of an extremely opportunistic indie developer, who has lied and cheated in the past, who sleeps with journalists who can potentially make her career skyrocket. I personally, knowing her ways from the past, wouldn't be surprised at all about her manipulating (more or less) people to either paint herself as a victim or to advance her own games. This kind of crap happens all the time and I do admit that it is unfair that she is getting all the crap for it while there have been plenty of others in the past who have gained less attention (people being offered Razor blade machines for reviews etc). But considering the big figure she is, it doesn't surprise me and I don't have doubts about it, as others have come forward about her being a con artist. What I've laid on the table already is where I base my accusations. The problem isn't the fact that she cheats, she can do what she wants with her sex life, but you'd imagine she would have a minimum amount of professional attitude as a developer.


I fail to see how any of this, particularly the editorial bias of many journalistic outlets towards games which strive for artistic merit, harms your ability to enjoy games as items of entertainment.


It doesn't. I still enjoy my games. All I'm asking is that I could enjoy the reports and reviews of those games as well, without having to deal with being treated in a disrespectful manner and by reading non-biased articles (and yes, this applies to all sites), from journalists who aren't closely associated with developers. Gaming is a very dear hobby of mine that doesn't just consist of playing games and keeps me sane with college stress wearing me down.


I fail to see how the desire for more well-written female and minority characters harms your ability to enjoy games purely as entertainment.


It doesn't. What does, is finger pointing and generalizing and entire population, gamers in this situation, in order to somehow "fix" things. What does, is making it seem like things are reaching a "crisis point" in gaming, like it is literally a boy's club that's hard to get in, like there is no proper representation of women. We're not. We've progressed and still are. Especially in indie gaming, there is literally nothing holding women back to become developers and develop games with interesting female characters. And yet very few women are in that industry, which in part explains why so many plots are in fact male dominated... because the developers are men and it's simply easier for them to tell a story about a man. Majority of gamers also tend to be male. There was a recent study which claimed it was now female, but that study defined "gamer" in a way too broad manner (basically anyone having played Angry Birds or Pacman once in their life was considered a gamer) to be credible. So, is it really that surprising and shocking that many games are centered around male characters? No.


I'm a girl, I thought I'd put it out there before any conclusions are made. Although it was painful, I watched through Anita's videos and gave her arguments some thought. Yes, she does in fact make some valid points. At the same time, the criticism she has gained has been excellent and she has done nothing to address it in a civilized manner other than block people. She forgets a lot of good female side and main characters, does a lot of cherry picking... In my opinion she paints the situation as far worse than it is. And really, like Tunderfoot points out, we have tropes because people tend to like them, because they sell and that is just the cold hard truth, that entertainment rarely tends to be very representative. Because it's a fantasy world and most people really aren't concerned with how realistically it represents real life. Personally, very immersive video games for me are a chance to escape reality, not concern myself with how politically correct the game I'm playing is.


If developers one day did start making even more wonderful female and side characters, awesome! Great! I wouldn't hate it on it, as long as the game would be good. But after that, I really don't care. What I do care about is the finger pointing that's going on most notably in social media like Twitter with hashtags like Anti Gamer Gate, which would supposedly make us reflect on our behavior and realize we're all hating on women for gaming and for not embracing modern feminism in video games. I don't think this kind of attitude or Anita's videos or any other person's videos is going to change how developers make characters. Some indie devs might "censor themselves", although I really doubt that too since what really matters to most at the end of the day is that the game is a success and sells (think Bayonetta 2, very much criticized but from what I can see an excellent and very popular game).


I hope this explains my views a little. Keep in mind I'm not speaking for every Gamer Gate supporter, this is just my personal view and take on it.
 
https://pixietalksgamergate.wordpress.com/gamers-are-dead-article-analysis/[/URL]


What do you feel constitutes bias, in this context? Would you say, for example, that a journalist who is known for enjoying strategy games would be displaying bias by endorsing a strategy game they're reviewing? Can you link me to examples of bias that have harmed your ability to enjoy a review? Can you link me to an example of a non-biased article?

It doesn't. What does, is finger pointing and generalizing and entire population, gamers in this situation, in order to somehow "fix" things. What does, is making it seem like things are reaching a "crisis point" in gaming, like it is literally a boy's club that's hard to get in, like there is no proper representation of women. We're not. We've progressed and still are. Especially in indie gaming, there is literally nothing holding women back to become developers and develop games with interesting female characters. And yet very few women are in that industry, which in part explains why so many plots are in fact male dominated... because the developers are men and it's simply easier for them to tell a story about a man. Majority of gamers also tend to be male. There was a recent study which claimed it was now female, but that study defined "gamer" in a way too broad manner (basically anyone having played Angry Birds or Pacman once in their life was considered a gamer) to be credible. So, is it really that surprising and shocking that many games are centered around male characters? No.


I'm a girl, I thought I'd put it out there before any conclusions are made. Although it was painful, I watched through Anita's videos and gave her arguments some thought. Yes, she does in fact make some valid points. At the same time, the criticism she has gained has been excellent and she has done nothing to address it in a civilized manner other than block people. She forgets a lot of good female side and main characters, does a lot of cherry picking... In my opinion she paints the situation as far worse than it is. And really, like Tunderfoot points out, we have tropes because people tend to like them, because they sell and that is just the cold hard truth, that entertainment rarely tends to be very representative. Because it's a fantasy world and most people really aren't concerned with how realistically it represents real life. Personally, very immersive video games for me are a chance to escape reality, not concern myself with how politically correct the game I'm playing is.


If developers one day did start making even more wonderful female and side characters, awesome! Great! I wouldn't hate it on it, as long as the game would be good. But after that, I really don't care. What I do care about is the finger pointing that's going on most notably in social media like Twitter with hashtags like Anti Gamer Gate, which would supposedly make us reflect on our behavior and realize we're all hating on women for gaming and for not embracing modern feminism in video games. I don't think this kind of attitude or Anita's videos or any other person's videos is going to change how developers make characters. Some indie devs might "censor themselves", although I really doubt that too since what really matters to most at the end of the day is that the game is a success and sells (think Bayonetta 2, very much criticized but from what I can see an excellent and very popular game).


I hope this explains my views a little. Keep in mind I'm not speaking for every Gamer Gate supporter, this is just my personal view and take on it.
No one is speaking for the whole movement, such that it ceases to be a movement in any meaningful fashion, see: http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2014/10/gamergate-should-stop-lying-to-itself.html


I still do not see how any of this harms you. You can, and seemingly do, ignore Sarkeesian. You believe that developers will not be moved by her or anyone else. The availability of escapist games remains constant. Would you mind naming some examples of recent games you feel are free of political intrusion and provide you the escapism you desire?
 
That's not unfair - Quinn is noted for being selfish, dishonest, and manipulative.


It is unfair that only in her case does this actually become a big thing. Because this is a serious subject and we should question what medias show us and tell us.


She is not, however, a big figure


Depends on which part of the Internet you come from. From where I come from, she's a figure known for doing what she does, which is being an awful person.


Depression Quest made it to Steam via Greenlight, didn't it? I seem to recall that is based on a public vote.


From what I understand, it was promoted by Tumblr users who were fans of Zoe who voted it there, who probably pitied her and support her ideas.


What do you feel constitutes bias, in this context? Would you say, for example, that a journalist who is known for enjoying strategy games would be displaying bias by endorsing a strategy game they're reviewing? Can you link me to examples of bias that have harmed your ability to enjoy a review? Can you link me to an example of a non-biased article?


I think you've misunderstood what I'm really looking for in this situation. The only truly non-biased reviews out there are players themselves who buy a game, play it and then post a video on it or write something about in on a forum. You will say "but that's biased, because they have their own preferences". And they will voice those preferences most of the time! What I don't want to see is a positive review made solely because both parties have an accord. That is the type of bias I can't stand. Individual gamers who don't have such relationships rarely have that issue. And as I said, no form of media escapes my criticism.


No one is speaking for the whole movement, such that it ceases to be a movement in any meaningful fashion.


It doesn't have to be meaningful to you, or the person who wrote that article. It's meaningful to me because this is an important subject to me and has helped me become more engaged and involved, meet amazing people and so on. And without it, we wouldn't be having this amazing discussion! With that exact same logic you could say any movement has lost its meaning, since most movements are not unified, especially wide movements with many people in it. Like... feminism?


I still do not see how any of this harms you. You can, and seemingly do, ignore Sarkeesian. You believe that developers will not be moved by her or anyone else. The availability of escapist games remains constant. Would you mind naming some examples of recent games you feel are free of political intrusion and provide you the escapism you desire?


I don't believe I said it harms me, it simply irritates me as a "customer", and as someone's whose hobby it is to game and read about games, of these type of sites to see this happening and so I'm speaking up about it like many other people. Games don't have agenda pushing in them (unless that's the sole purpose of a game, but then it's not really entertainment and fantasy anymore, it's a political work), that's why I don't want it to become like that, for things to be forcefully pushed just to make it look "better" in the eyes of someone like Sarkeesian for example. They don't push agendas because they are essentially fantasy worlds, just like they should be, and in no way representative of our reality.
 
Well, I must disagree most vociferously there - I want games that are more than fantasy worlds, and in fact see no reason that a fantasy world cannot be employed to make valuable commentary on political, social, and personal matters. I derive great enjoyment from games which have both overt and subtle authorial agendas or those which seek to represent reality. Am I not permitted to desire that such games are made, and covered appropriately? I enjoy both games and writing about games which push agendas even when I don't agree with them.


Actually, if Let's Plays exist, and escapist games exist... why are we bothering, here? You can ignore all extant journalistic outlets and watch those gamers posting to YouTube, thus depriving them of ad revenue. No one is taking away the escapist games you want.


Finally - does a movement without meaning in the broader cultural dialogue cease to be a movement and instead become a clique incapable of fostering change?


How do you feel about the fact Gamergaters have attacked people?
 
Am I not permitted to desire that such games are made, and covered appropriately? I enjoy both games and writing about games which push agendas even when I don't agree with them.


But you are! Because, congratulations, this is your opinion on the matter and that is my entire point. At no point was it my intention to say "what I think is the ultimate truth and everyone must think the way I do". I'm not like that. Although I disagree with you on this, perhaps because I'm personally involved in politics in real life so much and have been studying it and I really don't want to see any of that in the one place where I go to relax and have a good time, I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you wanting games like that is false. It's not! It's how you feel, and this is how I feel.


Actually, if Let's Plays exist, and escapist games exist... why are we bothering, here? You can ignore all extant journalistic outlets and watch those gamers posting to YouTube, thus depriving them of ad revenue. No one is taking away the escapist games you want.


I'm not sure I understood this correctly, other than the part that I should watch Let's Plays because I won't be feeding the ad revenue of those sites. I generally tend to not enjoy Let's Plays, because I get frustrated from the way people play games, believe it or not. Especially games that require you to make choices, I'd rather consider buying them, based on a review. But this, again, is my preference.


Finally - does a movement without meaning in the broader cultural dialogue cease to be a movement and instead become a clique incapable of fostering change?


I could ask the same about any other movement. I know there are like-minded people who think like me and see gaming the way I see it. Change isnt going to happen over night, nor is it ever fast or immediate. If we can start a conversation on the matter on a broader, then that's already pretty good. I'm not an impatient person, but I know what I want and I what my opinions are.


How do you feel about the fact Gamergaters have attacked people?


It's very unfortunate, but it doesn't come as a surprise to me that there are people like this. I'm not going to say what some Gamer Gaters have done is okay, because it's not and I won't stand behind that type of behavior. To me, opportunistic or genuinely unpleasant people who attack others aren't the main idea in Gamer Gate. Some will disagree with me, and that's fine, but many will agree with me. That's the wonderful part about this world that there are diverse opinions and that we can have a conversation about how we feel things should or shouldn't be. It's not just between you and me, but also inside Gamer Gate, which has promoted a discussion about video games and what they should be like or shouldn't be like and who should represent the journalistic part and how should it be represented. And that's a good thing, I enjoy a good discussion.
 
I originally posted the introduction to this thread in passing. Politics isn't my strong point. I won't bother to pretend that it is, which is the reason why I posted what little I did.


There's a lot of negative content surrounding GamerGate, which is what someone like me sees spending only an hour wondering what the fuss is about. I'm glad that someone who supports GamerGate can address the concerns in a civil manner and tell me what good is coming out of it. This is what forums (the archaic definition) are made for.


I will be honest, if not disappointing. I don't care enough about the topic at hand to be in an active discussion. At the same time, I must acknowledge the topic exists.
 
I haven't read the full thread yet but I support Gamergate 100%.


 
Regarding the pro--GG side attacking people: it is worth bearing in mind these attacks are anonymous and do not benefit GG in any way. A utility-minded individual would conclude the harassment comes from trolls looking for entertainment or anti-GG looking to martyr themselves to score points. This latter bit is especially prevalent amongst the tumblr-ridden social justice warrior crowd anti draws from extensively.


That isn't to say no GGers have ever attacked people. They certainly have. But they benefit less from it and people do tend to act roughly in ways good for them.


Additionally, multiple pro-GG people have been harassed. The creator of NotYourShield lost his job. Milo was sent a syringe. Mark Cenovich has had calls to report him frivolously to the police. KOP had a knife sent to his home.


The harassment is not limited to one side or one gender. Though the media representation certainly is. It happens when pushing a narrative.
 
Worth noting; I've seen supporters of GamerGate at least try to police it. I've yet to see anybody opposing GamerGate denounce or do anything about, say, what happened to Steve Tom Sawyer, or the vile statements made by Geordie Tait. Their idea of self-policing seems to be at best things like this.* "People send me tons of doxxes, but I'm just going to delete them and say we should do better."


Plus, as others have said, the media coverage of the harassment of GamerGate, particularly those who also support NotYourShield, is... Spotty at best.


At the end of the day, GamerGate has already done a lot of good for journalistic ethics in gaming media. Advertisers pulled out from bad sites, the FTC got called in, Gawker forced to add disclosure and more. That's the real meat of this.
 
To those who strongly dislike Gamergate, I'd strongly suggest reading this.


It's an Al Jazeera-sponsored debate between 2 pro-GGers, 2 anti-GGers, and 1 a Slate writer who wrote an article about how to end Gamergate. This debate is a real eye-opener, even though the anti-GGers are very clearly not even trying to debate. Deanna insists on posting memes and short, meaningless statements. Chu is his regular self, and was apparently doing all this in the middle of a car ride. Farces aside, the three serious debaters bring up excellent points with evidence to support it.
 
The biggest issue I have with GamerGate is its tendency to direct the majority of its ire at female game developers when it claims to be for ethics in gaming journalism. Most people I see that support it always seem to have something bad to say about Quinn, Saarkesian, or Wu. The truth is though, not a one of them are gaming journalists. What do they have to do with journalistic ethics? Sure, there was the whole bit that apparently Quinn might have slept with a guy that gave her a favorable review, but that was proven long ago that he didn't. He mentioned her game once, and long before the time they were said to have slept together. What he did mention was a Youtube series that she was a part of, and yes at the time he was friends with her. Should he have possibly mentioned that he was promoting a show a friend of his was in? Sure, but people make mistakes and that was pointed out when people brought it up.


As far as Wu and Saarkesian go, neither of them have even had anything close to that come up that have to do with favorable reviews or anything, yet they seem to be the main targets. They're often referred to as LW1, LW2, LW3. If they really were unimportant though, they wouldn't need to use LW to bring them up to show how they were not related to the issues, they just wouldn't mention them. Now that said, I don't think people who are against GamerGate are all blameless either. There are a number of people out there who do nothing but vitriolically call out and attack verbally the members of it just for being members. They use just as hateful and cruel of verbal barbs as the people who attack those who do not support it.


Now moving on from that, my own personal stance is this: I am absolutely horrified at all of this. It's deeply upsetting, given that I am rather involved in the community. Being a gamer and a game developer myself. When I was younger, gaming was not cool. If you played games that usually meant you were a nerd and/or a social outcast. None of that mattered to me, I loved playing games and I had a number of friends that did, too. So I rarely ever felt like a social outcast, or if I ever was one it was by my choosing. Over the years thought that changed and now gaming is bigger than movies. Almost everyone is a gamer now, they might not play the same games as you, but they know about games and they can talk about them.


That honestly made me happy, it means that there's a huge community, or there should be of fellow gamers. People who you can share your passion for games with, just because you all enjoy gaming. No matter what type of games you like, you enjoy gaming. Right now though, that community doesn't exist. That community has a huge amount of rifts and cracks in it, divides and lines that many dare not cross. I hate it. Games are big enough for everyone to have the types of games they love without it hurting anyone else. Why can't people just accept that and stop all these attacks? Why do my friends have to be hurt and threatened? Why do I have friends who call me afraid and decide they no longer want to develop games?


That's my huge problem with all of this. I want to see it over and done with, because it's hurting a community I love.
 
FleetingInfinity said:
The biggest issue I have with GamerGate is its tendency to direct the majority of its ire at female game developers when it claims to be for ethics in gaming journalism.
What about Ian Miles Cheong, Arthur Chu, and Johnathan McIntosh? Since you named three women, I named three men, all of whom have received immense amounts of attention. I can name plenty more.


There are, for the vast majority of the world, only two genders. It is not weird for three outspoken people to share a gender, nor is it indicative of any sort of pattern.

Most people I see that support it always seem to have something bad to say about Quinn, Saarkesian, or Wu.
Well, they're terrible people who spout lies constantly, spread misinformation, and are heralded as messiahs by anti-GG, so it's not surprising people have opinions on them.

The truth is though, not a one of them are gaming journalists. What do they have to do with journalistic ethics? Sure, there was the whole bit that apparently Quinn might have slept with a guy that gave her a favorable review, but that was proven long ago that he didn't.
This is historical revisionism. The Zoe Post itself says there's no reason to think Quinn slept with Grayson for reviews. He did give her coverage, but that wasn't a sexual bribe thing, simply an undisclosed relationship.

He mentioned her game once, and long before the time they were said to have slept together.
He's also in the credits of her game, as they had a close relationship well before all of this. And no, their sexual relationship was right around the time of giving her coverage.

What he did mention was a Youtube series that she was a part of, and yes at the time he was friends with her. Should he have possibly mentioned that he was promoting a show a friend of his was in? Sure, but people make mistakes and that was pointed out when people brought it up.
When these people's "mistakes" were pointed out, they retaliated with a smear campaign, a circling of the wagons, and an eternally exploding controversy.

As far as Wu and Saarkesian go, neither of them have even had anything close to that come up that have to do with favorable reviews or anything, yet they seem to be the main targets. They're often referred to as LW1, LW2, LW3. If they really were unimportant though, they wouldn't need to use LW to bring them up to show how they were not related to the issues, they just wouldn't mention them. Now that said, I don't think people who are against GamerGate are all blameless either. There are a number of people out there who do nothing but vitriolically call out and attack verbally the members of it just for being members. They use just as hateful and cruel of verbal barbs as the people who attack those who do not support it.
Anita Sarkeesian is the single biggest icon of anti that exists. Tropes Against Women is a joke of a series that's inaccurate and misrepresentative on essentially every point it makes--and brought up constantly by anti as an example of what they're doing. Anita is a misandrist, a liar, and a con, who peddles bunk, entry-level feminist ideas poorly to a social justice crowd that laps it up uncritically. That she's heralded as a champion, a giver of great wisdom, and a possessor of amazing insight is an issue related to the SJW infiltration of gaming culture (and, frankly, modern feminism at large). She attacks Gamergate, she's defended by anti, and her claims are used by them. This makes her relevant.


Brianna Wu is much the same. She attacks Gamergate constantly, lies constantly, and her bogus "I was chased out of my home" claim (she wasn't -- there's zero evidence of it, but there IS evidence she was at her home during the time she said she wasn't) is used to paint Gamergate as a boogieman that hates women. Zoe Quinn and Anita are used the same way, even though there's no evidence any one of them were ever remotely driven anywhere.


As an aside, I do love how frequently anti ignores or degrades #NotYourShield. How odd for a misogynistic movement that loathes women and variety in games to have so many women and minorities supporting it! Why, they must be completely mad, hatter-level bonkers. Or maybe the misogyny accusations are buzzword bullshit SJWs have engaged in for *years* to silence their critics.

Now moving on from that, my own personal stance is this: I am absolutely horrified at all of this. It's deeply upsetting, given that I am rather involved in the community. Being a gamer and a game developer myself. When I was younger, gaming was not cool. If you played games that usually meant you were a nerd and/or a social outcast. None of that mattered to me, I loved playing games and I had a number of friends that did, too. So I rarely ever felt like a social outcast, or if I ever was one it was by my choosing. Over the years thought that changed and now gaming is bigger than movies. Almost everyone is a gamer now, they might not play the same games as you, but they know about games and they can talk about them.
I'm not horrified. This has been inevitable for years. The same complaints existed previously, they just never got a ton of attention. The SJWs are a barbarian horde, and no matter where you go, a conflict with them will come.

That honestly made me happy, it means that there's a huge community, or there should be of fellow gamers. People who you can share your passion for games with, just because you all enjoy gaming. No matter what type of games you like, you enjoy gaming. Right now though, that community doesn't exist. That community has a huge amount of rifts and cracks in it, divides and lines that many dare not cross. I hate it. Games are big enough for everyone to have the types of games they love without it hurting anyone else. Why can't people just accept that and stop all these attacks? Why do my friends have to be hurt and threatened? Why do I have friends who call me afraid and decide they no longer want to develop games?
You have friends who are hurt and afraid because people on the internet say mean things. Fortunately, I can't actually think of any time mean words on the internet have resulted in real harm! Don't pay any mind to burner accounts on Twitter saying cruel things. They're meaningless. The only thing to really worry about is the people who go beyond that, and contact families, or employers, or schools--such as, oh, the anti-GGers who got the author of Plebcomics fired, or the man who started #NotYourShield.


Tsk, tsk, anti.

That's my huge problem with all of this. I want to see it over and done with, because it's hurting a community I love.
It ends when the SJWs are impotent, when the media is reformed and apologetic, and when the human filth stops spreading its toxic, faux-righteous rhetoric while simultaneously insulting minorities as "misguided tokens", *literally* and demonstrably driving women out of gaming under the guise of fighting for them, telling transpeople they "own them", and other such vile, loathsome things anti has in abundance.


It ends when Gamergate wins. And if we don't -- and that's totally possible; the world doesn't turn based on what's fair or right -- then it never ends. Welcome to the new normal.
 
@Ashurbanipal Have you watched the Tropes vs. Women series?


Also

Ashurbanipal said:
.
It ends when Gamergate wins. And if we don't -- and that's totally possible; the world doesn't turn based on what's fair or right -- then it never ends. Welcome to the new normal.
That's sounds a little extreme.
 
Yes, I've peeked at Tropes vs Women. It's really, really bad. It's full of stolen content, deceptively presented untruths, and Feminism 101 -- which makes it impressive she gets it so wrong, constantly. Then again, modern feminism 101 is pretty much wrong on everything it talks about.


And you're welcome, Infinity. You're right: I care about them. Because they're liars, cons, and aggressors, and the anti side exults them as saints even as they go out of their way to be belligerent.


Fuck that noise. They're wretched human filth. And so are all the men I named, and the many more I could name (Ben Kuchera, Nathan Grayson -- there's two more for ya, dudes that GG loathes. Ryulong, there's another).

That's sounds a little extreme.
Myself, and a large number of other people, are sick to death of SJWs infiltrating subcultures and doing their level best to ruin them and smear and harass their enemies. We've been sick of the sorry state of games journalism and media reporting for years. We're sick of the collusion, the lies, the historical revisionism, the narrative pushing, the lack of disclosure, the character assassination.


For once, a large number of people have finally been moved against the SJWs en masse, together, as opposed to the isolated grumblings of people who thought their insanity would stop at Atheism +, or comics, or sci-fi, or Tumblr. It never stops; it just keeps going and going.


So we have to, too. Like I said: welcome to the new normal. Gamergate wins or Gamergate never ends. Pick your poison.


And don't think I didn't notice you utterly failed to address anything said and settled for a snarky one-liner, Infinity. The avoidance of unpleasant facts in the face of the ability to be obnoxious is a classic.
 
I've been a Redditor for going on six years now. But no, I wasn't brought here from there. To answer your next question: yes, I'm a participant in GG communities on Reddit.


While you clearly aren't fond of Reddit, let's skip the character assassination; you hardly want me to start digging into your failures as a human being, because they, like mine, are irrelevant to what we're saying.
 
Actually, it's not that irrelevant.


I reddit as well, and your argument is word-for-word what I hear from the Men's Right's Activists (note to non-redditor readers while this sounds like a good thing the community/subreddit in question supports Paul "Bash a violent B**** month" Elam) and Red Pillers (to non-redditors once again: sociopathic misogynistic pick-up artists) all the damn time. Usually from very angry people who know exactly jack squat about modern feminism, and what they do know taken from the fringes of tumblr.


So, going back to Ms. Sarkeesian's videos, could you point me to a few examples of what (besides Hitman) she gets consistently wrong?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top