[Emperors of the Fading Suns] [Emperors of the Fading Suns] OOC Thread

[CrazyIvan]

Does she really need to outsmart him when she can just trample him with her 104 foot size warstrider boot ?

When he can assemble a super-being out of his circlemates, and Fangs actively can't? Yes.


Siham, if he applied himself, would be a better sorcerer than Fangs. Even if we ignore Solar Circle being theoretically off-limits to her, and assume she does something sufficiently crazy to show up Raksi, for a tattooed Lunar there are several spells that are a physical impossibility - ironically, several of them integral to the notion of a combat sorcerer.

I find myself inclined to agree with Cyl on this. I'm not as familiar with Lunar charms as I could be, but Siham's powerset revolves mostly around "building stuff" and "not dying". This doesn't strike me as something that the more adaptable Lunars should have trouble circumventing.

No, your current activities focus around those two things. Siham's powerset is that of a Twilight, and therein he overlaps and eclipses Cunning Fangs rather completely.


Now, you've been kind enough not to poo all over my character's niche, but that's a meta-game consideration. This is the inherent fun - and problem - with playing a Lunar in a primarily Solar game. If anyone heads toward your turf, they will do it better. It's the nature of the game. One of the most fun parts of playing a Lunar is finding ways around that, and its one of the reasons I'm so devoted to Cunning Fangs' breed of insanity. In an out and out intellectual battle, Siham has a good chance of winning. Her only real shot is coming at him sufficiently sideways that it would never occur to him.


But I'd like to refine my statement. It's not that Fangs is afraid of Siham particularly - she's afraid of all the Solars. He's just the one she's not sure she can simply steer and outmaneuver. She can probably beat him, but she dislikes what she'd have to do to accomplish it.


It should also be noted that Siham doesn't know any of this. While Midboss was playing, Fangs mostly amused herself with gently harassing him, and you and I haven't interacted meaningfully in this game.

 

[JayTee]

Fair enough. I don't have plans to invest too deeply in to Sorcery, if at all, so from a meta-perspective that's not something that'll come up. As for the more in character stuff, Fang's fears are probably somewhat justified, as Siham is mentally drawing up plans for all kinds of dangerous superweapons. Thankfully the nature of these weapons makes it impossible for them to be used against Creation, but still.

 

[cyl]

But I'd like to refine my statement. It's not that Fangs is afraid of Siham particularly - she's afraid of all the Solars. He's just the one she's not sure she can simply steer and outmaneuver. She can probably beat him, but she dislikes what she'd have to do to accomplish it.

She's right to be afraid of all solars.
Any solar can tap into the powers of sorcery and sadly be better at it than Fangs. Any solar studying craft can become as good as Siham.


Solars are dangerous.


Malek was a rather lonely thief two years ago and now he can build up a skilled unit of fighters in a matter of weeks, and Rhapsody just recently brainwashed several thousands broken minds back to normality.


What I don't understand is why she would think she will eventually be bested by Siham and not the others since they can all become the unstoppable and insensitive forces she is afraid of ?


Is it that she underestimates the others or is it that she views Siham as an intellectual equal and competitor at the time being (probably because of her past incarnation and his) ?

 

[cyl]

Fair enough. I don't have plans to invest too deeply in to Sorcery, if at all, so from a meta-perspective that's not something that'll come up.

That is just too bad.


We could really use sorcerous means of transporating heavy cargo to build up our dominion.

 

[JayTee]

Any solar studying craft can become as good as Siham.

Agatha!Siham: Bitch, I will cut you.

 

[JayTee]

That is just too bad.
We could really use sorcerous means of transporating heavy cargo to build up our dominion.

I suppose I could go in it for some of the utility spells like Infallible Messenger spell and Stormwind Rider, but that'd be about it.


EDIT: Wait, what am I saying? I already had plans to build me some golems for heavy manuel labor. Never mind.

 

[cyl]

 

[xarvh]

@CI: It is mostly an engineering problem, an arm that can survive an impact and be reused several times is just harder to build than a one-use missile.


Physics also adds a huge problem, in that resilience increases with the surface (ie, size squared) while weight increases with the volume (ie, cubic size).


Same reasons why ants are very strong, cats are very agile and elephants can't even jump.


By all intents and purposes, the Labyrinth counts as night. =D


@JayTee: You don't have to invest heavily in Sorcery, but a few things will come handy.


Solar Circle will allow you to cure the Behemoth.


Also, I'm enjoying the conversation about Fangs vs solars.

 

[CrazyIvan]

She's right to be afraid of all solars.
Any solar can tap into the powers of sorcery and sadly be better at it than Fangs. Any solar studying craft can become as good as Siham...

But they will suffer from an uphill battle to do so, and have shown no movement in that regard. For Siham, it's an easy step.

Is it that she underestimates the others or is it that she views Siham as an intellectual equal and competitor at the time being (probably because of her past incarnation and his) ?

To put it bluntly, she's pretty sure that Malek is dumb enough to be steered. She's not confident Siham wouldn't put together what she was doing. And beyond that, she'd feel worse about killing Siham.


Beyond that, as far as things go, Siham nee Agatha is the only member of the Circle to leave an indelible mark on Creation. The rest of the Circle? Can make things hellish for a bit, but this too shall pass. Twilights have a unique penchant for long-term fuckupedness.

 

[CrazyIvan]

@CI: It is mostly an engineering problem, an arm that can survive an impact and be reused several times is just harder to build than a one-use missile.
Physics also adds a huge problem, in that resilience increases with the surface (ie, size squared) while weight increases with the volume (ie, cubic size).


Same reasons why ants are very strong, cats are very agile and elephants can't even jump.


By all intents and purposes, the Labyrinth counts as night. =D

Agreed, from an engineering standpoint its le silly. I think its a matter of accepting the setting conceit that "Giant robots are not laughably impractical" and from there, similar to assuming a spherical cow of uniform density, everything flows easily


Also excellent. Fangs' warstriders work so much better when its dark outside. And while not quite as poetic as defeating a horde of Ghosts via vivacious sexiness (yes, this was my plan), I can work with that.

 

[cyl]

To put it bluntly, she's pretty sure that Malek is dumb enough to be steered. She's not confident Siham wouldn't put together what she was doing. And beyond that, she'd feel worse about killing Siham.

Well, Malek's curse and fondness for humans make him rather predictable and therefore manipulable for anyone who can make innocents suffer, but I doubt Fangs would be going there if she had to.


With her curse sapping her determination, I doubt she could go through such lengths.


Strange things though there are no limit break condition for Lunar Flaws... and I never realized that they had to eat up Limit points by being exposed to the Full Moon.


Huh... they actually must go insane even more regularly than solars.


What about Rhapsody ?

Beyond that, as far as things go, Siham nee Agatha is the only member of the Circle to leave an indelible mark on Creation.
The rest of the Circle? Can make things hellish for a bit, but this too shall pass. Twilights have a unique penchant for long-term fuckupedness.

It's because the elder Twilights are often presented as going crazy over things that profoundly affected their surroundings and we haven't dug up anything about other predecessors until now...


But there are plenty of other solars that went terribly wrong and left scars upon Creation (Desus, or even Deathlords), we just don't know about them... yet.

 

[xarvh]

@Kacie, CI: ok, so are you fighting as two solo units or as a single one?


In either case, I need Mirror's JB.


Also, CI, what is the total accuracy/damage you get with the warstrider?


I'm too lazy to think about motes, so 4 should be enough to have that +5L of warstrider claws.


Also, I'm tempted to break my rules and go see Pacific Rim at the IMAX.


Also, this: http://www.rpdom.com/threads/from-malfeas-with-love.57452

 

[Feantari]

All I've gathered from this pacific rim conversation is that Argis's new arm will be rocket powered. :-p


It's totes on my list of things to see though.

 

[cyl]

That's a good way of making something awesome out of a crappy situation !


Elbow rocket FTW !

 

[Feantari]

CI, 's probably spell time in stone rain and silence. Argis's next action will be 11 ticks after his starting to run.

 

[CrazyIvan]

CI, 's probably spell time in stone rain and silence. Argis's next action will be 11 ticks after his starting to run.

NotMagma Kracken should be done by then. Fangs is standing in the middle of it.

 

[CrazyIvan]

@Kacie, CI: ok, so are you fighting as two solo units or as a single one?
In either case, I need Mirror's JB.


Also, CI, what is the total accuracy/damage you get with the warstrider?


I'm too lazy to think about motes, so 4 should be enough to have that +5L of warstrider claws.


Also, I'm tempted to break my rules and go see Pacific Rim at the IMAX.


Also, this: http://www.rpdom.com/threads/from-malfeas-with-love.57452

If we fight as a single unit, can I cast spells, or do I just tank damage?

 

[CrazyIvan]

In terms of total accuracy/damage:


Cunning Fangs is in a Moonsilver Common Warstrider. Her Str is 12, and the Bite Attack has a damage of 17L, while the claws are 5L.


Assuming an Accuracy of 0, her dice pool would be Dex 6 + Specialty 1 + Melee 4 - Penalties, which depend on things like how the Ghosts are sized.

 

[xarvh]

Awesome, thanks.


She can cast spells but while she does Mirror won't be able to act.

 

[CrazyIvan]

Well, Malek's curse and fondness for humans make him rather predictable and therefore manipulable for anyone who can make innocents suffer, but I doubt Fangs would be going there if she had to.
With her curse sapping her determination, I doubt she could go through such lengths.


Strange things though there are no limit break condition for Lunar Flaws... and I never realized that they had to eat up Limit points by being exposed to the Full Moon.


Huh... they actually must go insane even more regularly than solars.


What about Rhapsody ?

There are other ways to manipulate Malek without making innocents suffer. For example, I'm pretty sure Cunning Fangs could get Malek to do whatever she wanted policy wise by arguing *for* the thing she didn't want, and being sufficiently callous in her language while doing it.


Rhapsody she's not yet sure about, but the hierarchy in her mind is probably Siham > Malek > Rhapsody.


And yes, Lunars hit limit with some degree of consistency. But its often at somewhat less...inopportune times...

It's because the elder Twilights are often presented as going crazy over things that profoundly affected their surroundings and we haven't dug up anything about other predecessors until now...
But there are plenty of other solars that went terribly wrong and left scars upon Creation (Desus, or even Deathlords), we just don't know about them... yet.

But again, while it's possible to leave indelible harm to the world as a non-Twilight, it's not easy. The Deathlords don't really count, and Desus is...Desus. But cults of personality and tyrant-kingdoms only last as long as the Solar behind them lasts. Biological engineering, by its very nature, or artifact building, is supposed to last, and most of the things that can reach out of the First Age and bite Creation are in that category (Soulbreaker Orbs, Five-Metal Shrike, etc.).


She's also pretty sure she can fight those things. She can go to war with Malek, and even if she can't win, she can certainly check his ambition. If Rhapsody goes off the Cult of Rhapsody deep end, Cunning Fangs has her own set of social attacks. She is at war with Agatha. One of Agatha's creations killed her mate. The same creation means she's never seen her current mate's face. She has applied her intellect to undoing Agatha's sloppy lab procedure and ego-maniacal science, and has failed.

 

[cyl]

According to the MC system, technically she could.


That is the weird part.


A sorcerer can cast spells as a special character in a unit, and it doesn't prevent the unit from attacking... which kind of makes sense in a way since combat spells are shot in a flash.


But it's a very weird association.


I'd advise to keep war machines such as warstrider as separate solo units in the future unless there are several of them fighting side by side in which case they would really form a unit.

 

[Feantari]

Except if you keep them separate they have the issue of needing their own war score. Also you'd probably need a higher than solo dude magnitude.


I feel like we need to push through ripping roots soonish so Argis and Kalak aren't too behind the time. Not that I want to rush it really.

 

[cyl]

There are other ways to manipulate Malek without making innocents suffer. For example, I'm pretty sure Cunning Fangs could get Malek to do whatever she wanted policy wise by arguing *for* the thing she didn't want, and being sufficiently callous in her language while doing it.

Even if he disagrees with her on the way she does thing, and sometimes on principle, his main "friction" with her comes from the fact that he does not understand what she is doing, why, and how, because they are two very different personnalities.


However he's not on a holy mission to spite her at every turn, and even if he's rather rash, he is getting better at getting a read on people, so I'm not sure that would work out the way she wants to.

Rhapsody she's not yet sure about, but the hierarchy in her mind is probably Siham > Malek > Rhapsody.

I'd have placed Malek last... just because of Rhapsody's potential !


Even if Malek might be considered dangerous on his own and because of his ideas and ability to make things happen, Rhaposdy has powers that vastly surpasses his in terms of affecting large crowds and important people.


If the two combined their powers in pursuit of the same goal, and I wanted to stop them, she'd be the first target to be taken down.

She is at war with Agatha. One of Agatha's creations killed her mate. The same creation means she's never seen her current mate's face. She has applied her intellect to undoing Agatha's sloppy lab procedure and ego-maniacal science, and has failed.

So I guess she's not really keen on restoring and using the labs.


@JayTee what CI says is also true... Fangs/CI had a knack for scaring the crap out of Siham/Midboss, and that was funny as hell !


But I wonder, how does she consider beastmen in general and Tirana's people more precisely ?


Because they do not exactly come from irreproachable procedures and selfless science.

 

[cyl]

Except if you keep them separate they have the issue of needing their own war score. Also you'd probably need a higher than solo dude magnitude.

Obviously, but normally you don't bring a jet to a gunfight.


That was my point about Magnitude earlier, you can't really consider war machines that surpass human scale by far (a catapult, a warstrider, or a ship) as "part of a unit" even if there are several people operating it.


They would have to be the unit, the bigger gun fired, the leader being the one aiming and pulling the trigger.


In this example Mirror + warstrider Fangs, there is no problem because Fangs can follow Mirror's directive.


Mirror aims and fires, Fangs is the gun.


But speaking theoretically, if they had followers with them, I'm not sure we could as easily regroup them all into the same unit without either breaking the system (the unit uses the average stats of the warstrider) or sucking balls (the presence of the warstrider is completely swallowed by the footsoldiers' stats).

 

[Feantari]

It can still work. The warstrider is a special character. The leader directs the rest of the troops as normal and the special character does its thing. Magnitude might be the only wonky part for that, but that's why you have an ST right?