Dragon King Martial Arts

[Jukashi]

It says in the PG that Dragon Kings can only practise Terrestrial Styles made solely for Dragon Kings- apparantly more because their essence is different than because they just have different bodies.


However, Dragon Kings of Essence 4-6 can become "proper" ochilike with gods who are above Essence 5, and they can practise Celestial martial arts. So are the DK Chosen capable of practising at that level? Can they learn or develop Celestial MA Charms during their time with a spirit, if they're capable of it but haven't already? If they are, what happens when the fusion ends- do they keep the ability, lose it completely, lose use of it until they become ochilike again, or explode?


I'm thinking of making an ancient Dragon King protagonist in my game, and I'd like to up his power level a bit.

 

[Hanat-Osul]

Were I in your place, I would say that he learned the Celestial Style (and I'd restrict him to 1) while he was the god's vessel, and that now he can still use it but it's difficult without the god's power to back him up.  I'd give him a full Celestial style - all the Charms in the tree - but impose a mote surcharge, or make him roll to invoke the Form a la Immaculates.


Not that any of that is canon, but that's what I'd do.

 

[Jukashi]

That sounds good. No-one else has anything to add? Ok.


Next problem!  


I thought my first question was more setting-based, but this may be more suited to the Game Mechanics forum, so the mods can move it if they like.


Now I want to make some Terrestrial DK Martial Arts. My idea was to keep in theme with their other powers and make them in the form of two complimentary Martial Arts Paths; The Path of the Focused Body and The Path of the Mastered Spirit.


My rough outline for PotFB was to have it concentrate on smashy-smashy combat, raw power and toughness- increasing soak, automatic damage successes, increased movement, maybe resisting disease, poison or fatigue, and so on. I intended PotMS, on the other hand, to focus on accuracy, dodging, more mystical powers like hitting spirits or draining willpower; one cool idea I had, for high in the path, was the ability to store essence the same way as an essence storage crystal does. They'd store it in their their anima, giving them more essence to use (once they regained what they spent) but causing a display when they use it.


The problem is, most of the path abilities I come up with are far too similar to powers from other paths. Dragon Kings already have ways to add to their soak, increase their movement, attack dematerialised spirits and so forth. It seems dumb to have two ways to gain very similar effects.


On the other hand, most path powers have flat costs and relatively set effects. Making the MA powers more the "Pay X for Y dice" sort of abilities would make them different, more limited in effect but more potentially powerful. That still doesn't seem enough, however.


Any ideas?

 

[Flagg]

I admit I've never paid much attention to Dragon Kings; are the MA Styles they can learn actual Charm trees, or just other DK Paths based on the MA Ability?


-S

 

[Jukashi]

As far as I can tell there are no WW-produced DK martial arts styles, tree or path. The only relevant information I can find in the PG is that they were able to create supernatural styles up to the Terrestrial level, and that they could only practise their own martial arts; that is, they couldn't learn human ones. It doesn't say whether their supernatural styles took the form of trees or paths, but since the DK way of doing things seems to be fundamentally different I'd say they were more path-like.


They certainly had them; the description of Pterok mentions an aerial martial art of theirs, and it says later that the practise of supernatural martial arts declined among Dragon Kings during the Shogunate (Doesn't forbid the use of them, though; I'd expect some Ancient Dragon Kings know styles.) It just doesn't say anything about how they learned them.

 

[Jakk Bey]

They never did lay them out--save that they're supposed to be on par with Terrestrial styles, and aren't compatible with anyone else's Martial Arts, or visa versa.


I'm not a fan of the DKs learning normal Martial Arts, even if they spent time channelling a God of some sort--they aren't gods.  They aren't Spirits.  They aren't Mortals.  They are something else, and as the prototypes, I kind of like that they aren't backwards compatible with later iideas that the Gods and Primordials laid out.


Ramping up the power level for either protagonists or antagonists doesn't make them better villains or heroes.  Making them smarter and make better use of their Charms and Abilities makes them more interesting in my book.  


If you have to--why not a device that allows them to do so?  It's not normal for them, but with the artificial doohicky, it would explain why the DK was extra hunky.

 

[Jukashi]

Wouldn't it be the later ideas that'd have to be backwards compatible? The DKs would have to be forward compatible.


As to why I want my DK to have a power up? Because I think at least two of my players will enjoy having it out the ol'-fashioned way as a climax... in addition to various more ordinary Path chicanery, of course. I suppose an artifact would work...


But to tell you the truth, I've had a soft spot for Dragon Kings since I first read about them in the PG, and I also love martial arts. So, I want to make Dragon King Martial Arts Paths, including a Celestial-level one if I can get away with it, horrendous requirements bedamned. Just the one. I can give it up any time I like.

 

[Obsidian Soul]

Dragon Kings, in some small way, are superior to all mortals, Exalted or not.  They have no peripheral Essence, meaning that they are fully attuned to their Essence, and they are very, very good Artificers, far better than any Celestial Exalt without DB help.


As for Terrestrial Martial Arts Styles, just make them up like you would an Exalted Martial Art Style, but they should reflect the Elemental Nature of the breed which makes them.  They should also be brutal and inhumanly graceful, especially those for the Pterok.  For example, a Form Charm for one of the Pterok flying martial arts should add Essence to Dexterity and may only be active while the practitioner is airborne.  Remember that while the Dragon Kings learned how to construct MA styles by watching the Exalted, they are the only ones who can create, learn or use Dragon King Martial Art Styles.


As for the Celestial Martial Arts for the Dragon Kings, who would create them?  Spirits cannot create MA Styles and no Exalted may create a Dragon King MA, so I believe that it would be impossible, unless the ST should decide otherwise, for a Dragon King to create a Celestial Martial Art Style.  Now, you could always create an esoteric Path that allowed the Dragon Kings to overcome such limitations, but it would have to be handled carefully.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

and they are very' date=' very good Artificers, far better than any Celestial Exalt without DB help.[/quote']
 Where did you get this from?

 

[Jukashi]

I have a story about the creation of a DK Celestial style... but I'll keep it to myself for now.


Did Dragon Kings need to observe Exalts to create martial arts? It's that way with sorcery, but I was under the impression that the DKs had martial arts traditions of their own. One of the Dragon King's themes is the pursuit of self-control and essence mastery, which martial arts is very suited to. Their honourable, advanced, yet primal culture is, in turn, suited to the development of martial arts. I wouldn't be suprised if they had styles of their own before the Exalted were ever made.


Making their martial arts paths elemental only enhances my problem- how to make a distinctive set of powers. Flickering Fire could almost be a martial art itself. Why would a Pterok learn a martial arts power to increase their agility when they can get a similar power from another, more versatile path?


I also liked the idea of focusing on an aspect of Creation seperate from the elements- the self, as represented one path based on the body and another on the spirit. That's where I got the initial idea for the two.

and they are very' date=' very good Artificers, far better than any Celestial Exalt without DB help.[/quote']
Where did you get this from?

Dragon Kings can create Crystal and Vegetative technology really easily- right there at character creation, without spending bonus points, a modern Dragon King can have path powers that allow them to make artifacts without needing any tools.

 

[Persell]

I might suggest making DK MAs as paths instead of charm trees.  This would limit it to only 6 charms though, so maybe the form charm is seperate.  Of course there would have to be a special restriction to the progression of these paths beyond just essence, because they would have MA requirements.  


As for the form charm be seperate, Perhaps DKs can learn the first and second charms of the MA path but then they have to purchase the Form for the path at the same cost as if it were a terrestrial spell.  After having purchased the form, then they can complete the Path.


At least those are the guidelines I have made for DK MAs.  I had always planned on making some as DKs are my second favorite thing to play in Exalted, but I am lazy and don't have much more than that.


As for origins, sure DKs had to observe Exalts for sorcery, but that is because sorcery didn't always exist as we know it.  MAs, I like to think that DKs had their styles long before mankind was even created.

 

[Flagg]

Why force a square peg into a round hole? If you have to modify the structure of DK Paths to this degree, why not just make them Charms instead?


-S

 

[Persell]

Eh, I dunno, I had worked with the idea of the third charm in the path as being the form, but it seems really hard to make an MA style in 6 charms.


But this slight change seemed to me less a bump than a charm tree with some odd number of charms and differing MA and Essence requirements.


I think of my method as a happy median.

 

[Jukashi]

I might suggest making DK MAs as paths instead of charm trees.  This would limit it to only 6 charms though, so maybe the form charm is seperate.  Of course there would have to be a special restriction to the progression of these paths beyond just essence, because they would have MA requirements.

You have stolen the thoughts from my very brain.


Dragon Kings and their paths are so different from humans and their charms, however. Instead of merely a charm which, say, lets them run five times faster, they get a power which allows them to do everything merely two times faster. Charms are specialised and powerful, while paths are weaker but more versatile.


Dragon King MAs are so different that humans can't practise them- so do they necessarily have to have forms? I'd imagine them to be a smoother, more orderly rise to power.


Thing is, this makes DK MAs even harder to make. They're supposed to be in line with terrestrial MA charms in power, but beginning powers all seem stronger than beginning charms. (That's another difference; comparatively, DKs are stronger starting characters and weaker experienced characters). And I still don't know how to make them distinctive from other path powers.