Deathlords and Soulsteel

[Ker'ion]

I was just wondering about something.


The Abyssal book says that a Deathlord is basically impossible to kill, since effects that are specifically designed to destroy spirits don't work on them and they may not actually die if they're thrown into the void.


Since it doesn't actually kill the ghost to pound them into Soulsteel, what would your thoughts be on turning a Deathlord into Soulsteel?

 

[Ledaal Kajiri]

Who wouldn't like FAFL as a paperweight? Or maybe he'd make a nice Daiklaive.


More seriously...I think that makes things too easy. Now, if one of them could be forged into such as their 'Hidden Weakness' that might be alright...but all of them, and it makes removing the Deathlords as a threat to Creation far too simple. A one size fits all approach to Deathlord defeat isn't particularly interesting or epic...even if a full set of Deathlord table ware might be amusing.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

I agree, that would be anti-climatic and fucking dull.

 

[Jakk Bey]

Only if that Soulsteel could possibly dominate and control anyone who touched it, and using them as a conduit for all their powerz...


Which would be a fun side effect.


"HA! First and Forsaken Lion has been vanquished! Take that, Oh Paperweight of DOOM!"


Two weeks later, the FAFL has taken the Solar's entire entourage, and opened a Shadowland in the middle of his Manse...


oops...

 

[Flagg]

I think it should only work if you can forge the Deathlord into a ring, precious.

 

[nero1]

thumb down


I think the idea is not really brilliant... feels a bit like old-style d&d stuff: so much blatant it does not really have nothing to do with epic or storytelling

 

[Flyck]

As per forging Soulsteel, you need to 'convince' the spirit that it would rather spend the rest of it's eternity as a paper-weight, armor, daiklaive, or ultimately useful spatchela...  Something tells me that the average PC would need to be damned-near the Deathlord's Essence Level and capabilities as an accomplished social-combat-monkey in order to convince them to just give in and become a paper-weight.

 

[Krzyzewski Man]

It could be a fun bit of irony if the Silver Prince was sent to his own soulsteel processing island.

 

[Ker'ion]

Re: thumb down

I think the idea is not really brilliant... feels a bit like old-style d&d stuff: so much blatant it does not really have nothing to do with epic or storytelling

Not all rulings have to be epic.  Bartering for a horse to carry your ass to Lookshy isn't exactly going to be an epic adventure (normally).

 

[Persell]

Why shouldn't it work?


I mean aside from the railroady, player depowering reasons mentioned before?

 

[Nightmare of Fallen Kings]

I don't know, personally I see the Deathlords as more than just "malevolent ghosts". I think the powers granted to them by the Neverborn has elevated them to something more than just a ghost, and would thus make them something more than the soulforging process was ever meant to contain. That or even if you were to soulforge them into an item of some sort, you'd end up with a spectacularly powerful item....for the rest of the day. By the time night next fell, they'd reform in the underworld and you'd be left with a dull, non-magical, black-iron whatever-it-was that you forged. No different than if you "killed" them normally. Personally though, I wouldn't think they'd be a viable resource for the soulforging process. It's kind of like trying to bake a cake with a bolt of lightning instead of fire. Sure, fire and lightning are both just energy, but they're fundamentally different, and thus not suited to the same tasks. One is just MORE than the other.

 

[Ker'ion]

Why shouldn't it work?
I mean aside from the railroady, player depowering reasons mentioned before?

That's why they only get the one shot...
One shot one kill.  Every other DL is just going to end doing what Nightmare of Fallen Kings said.  I think that'll work.


Thanks, everyone.


I think we can punt this thread into the back corner.


Unless someone else wants to post here, of course.

 

[Persell]

I don't know' date=' personally I see the Deathlords as more than just "malevolent ghosts". I think the powers granted to them by the Neverborn has elevated them to something more than just a ghost, and would thus make them something more than the soulforging process was ever meant to contain. That or even if you were to soulforge them into an item of some sort, you'd end up with a spectacularly powerful item....for the rest of the day. By the time night next fell, they'd reform in the underworld and you'd be left with a dull, non-magical, black-iron whatever-it-was that you forged. No different than if you "killed" them normally. Personally though, I wouldn't think they'd be a viable resource for the soulforging process. It's kind of like trying to bake a cake with a bolt of lightning instead of fire. Sure, fire and lightning are both just energy, but they're fundamentally different, and thus not suited to the same tasks. One is just MORE than the other.[/quote']
The right allegory would be a baking oven and a smithy. Lightning and fire are fundamentally different things, while a deathlord is "only" a overcharged ghost.

 

[nero1]

Re: thumb down

I think the idea is not really brilliant... feels a bit like old-style d&d stuff: so much blatant it does not really have nothing to do with epic or storytelling

Not all rulings have to be epic.  Bartering for a horse to carry your ass to Lookshy isn't exactly going to be an epic adventure (normally).

Fine, but turning a mighty opponent into a penknife sure should consider epic in the equation...

 

[Persell]

Re: thumb down

I think the idea is not really brilliant... feels a bit like old-style d&d stuff: so much blatant it does not really have nothing to do with epic or storytelling

Not all rulings have to be epic.  Bartering for a horse to carry your ass to Lookshy isn't exactly going to be an epic adventure (normally).

Fine, but turning a mighty opponent into a penknife sure should consider epic in the equation...

What is wrong with you guys?


In the original post nobody ever said something about forging them into something ridiculous.


Deathlord forged into soulsteel sounds like a mighty fine exotic component for an NA level artifact, be it a daiklaive with which you will storm the gates of hell and kill the ebon dragon or a writing quill that holds together your trade empire.


Geeeee. Really. Don't take your lack of imagination as an excuse to derail a perfectly fine player plan.

 

[nero1]

Re: thumb down

Geeeee. Really. Don't take your lack of imagination as an excuse to derail a perfectly fine player plan.

aha, gotcha... this will end up a ST vs PC sort of talk?


You won't get me. I have been ST of the group for 10 years, and player for the last couple of years, so i know both feelings.


I still feel that allowing players for DL to become soulsteel would let them feel they can do anything. Could be different if the Neverborn or another DL forged a DL into a soulsteel something to unleash him/her on Creation.


As you see we do not lack immagination...


But I would still think about it twice before allowing such a thing in my chronicle. But if I feel it can be weaved in a good story, so let it be.

 

[Decurion]

Re: thumb down

I think the idea is not really brilliant... feels a bit like old-style d&d stuff: so much blatant it does not really have nothing to do with epic or storytelling

Not all rulings have to be epic.  Bartering for a horse to carry your ass to Lookshy isn't exactly going to be an epic adventure (normally).

Fine, but turning a mighty opponent into a penknife sure should consider epic in the equation...

In my mind, getting a deathlord to hold still long enough to whack his soul with a hammer, scorch it with bonefire, and quench it in acid, over and over again for an entire day per pound of soulsteel either requires some amazing epicality in the first place, or your ST is running the deathlord badly.


What you do with the soulsteel afterwards is your business.

 

[nero1]

Re: thumb down

I think the idea is not really brilliant... feels a bit like old-style d&d stuff: so much blatant it does not really have nothing to do with epic or storytelling

Not all rulings have to be epic.  Bartering for a horse to carry your ass to Lookshy isn't exactly going to be an epic adventure (normally).

Fine, but turning a mighty opponent into a penknife sure should consider epic in the equation...

In my mind, getting a deathlord to hold still long enough to whack his soul with a hammer, scorch it with bonefire, and quench it in acid, over and over again for an entire day per pound of soulsteel either requires some amazing epicality in the first place, or your ST is running the deathlord badly.


What you do with the soulsteel afterwards is your business.

That's what i meant, but with emphasis on "running things badly", and "badly" meaning with no tension at all. Thinking about it feels on the average as the typical young-kids-rpg-sessions where you have players turing up saying: "i can double my ballista damage if i backstab him with it! " (credits: The Gamers)

 

[Persell]

Re: thumb down

Geeeee. Really. Don't take your lack of imagination as an excuse to derail a perfectly fine player plan.

aha, gotcha... this will end up a ST vs PC sort of talk?


You won't get me. I have been ST of the group for 10 years, and player for the last couple of years, so i know both feelings.


I still feel that allowing players for DL to become soulsteel would let them feel they can do anything. Could be different if the Neverborn or another DL forged a DL into a soulsteel something to unleash him/her on Creation.


As you see we do not lack immagination...


But I would still think about it twice before allowing such a thing in my chronicle. But if I feel it can be weaved in a good story, so let it be.

Bla bla bla "dear players, watch me as I tell you the story of awesome stuff happening - sadly none of it done by you or your characters" bla bla bla.


I already got you. Exalted is the game where people play solars. the embodiment of perfection. Anything is possible.

 

[Nightmare of Fallen Kings]

I don't know' date=' personally I see the Deathlords as more than just "malevolent ghosts". I think the powers granted to them by the Neverborn has elevated them to something more than just a ghost, and would thus make them something more than the soulforging process was ever meant to contain. That or even if you were to soulforge them into an item of some sort, you'd end up with a spectacularly powerful item....for the rest of the day. By the time night next fell, they'd reform in the underworld and you'd be left with a dull, non-magical, black-iron whatever-it-was that you forged. No different than if you "killed" them normally. Personally though, I wouldn't think they'd be a viable resource for the soulforging process. It's kind of like trying to bake a cake with a bolt of lightning instead of fire. Sure, fire and lightning are both just energy, but they're fundamentally different, and thus not suited to the same tasks. One is just MORE than the other.[/quote']
The right allegory would be a baking oven and a smithy. Lightning and fire are fundamentally different things, while a deathlord is "only" a overcharged ghost.

Did I not just say that?

Sure' date=' fire and lightning are both just energy, [b']but they're fundamentally different,[/b]

I guess I did, that is unless you want to argue that fire and lightning are not both forms of energy. You took the words right out of my mouth. Almost verbatim, in fact. But I agree, the allegory of an oven and a forge would be more accurate to the point I was trying to convey. I guess if you were wanting to correct me, a more accurate response would have been "A more appropriate allegory would be..." since my allegory was not in any way, incorrect. If we're going to nit-pick. Honestly, when you already grasp the point someone was trying to get across, going out of your way to "correct" them is just rude.

 

[Kremlin KOA]

Motherfucking ASHTRAY


Guys, you forget, the correct usde of something as ridiculously powerful and hated as a deathlord is to soulforge it into an ASHTRAY

 

[Persell]

Uh... physics 101. Electrical energy is not the same as thermic energy and applicable for a lot of different processes.


You were saying with your allegory that deathlords are not ghosts. I was saying, they are ghosts, albeit powerful ones.


Not reading someones post or trying to understand his point before answering is what is really rude.

 

[The zombie cat]

I would say soul forging a deathlord should be possible, but not as simple as convincing him to stay still. Your probably going to need an artefact 5 forge (that needed suitable exotic ingredients) that doesn’t do anything other than make soul steel (it will work on beings less than death lords but you don’t need it for that). And it will take an epic battle to hold the death lord down while you perform the procedure.


And then it is not a permanent solution, should the resulting soul steel ever be thrown into the well of oblivion, or be given to the never born the never born have the power to reverse it. There is no ones on the GM to point this out. But we have the potential for epic quests by there servants to restore them.


You have not destroyed the death lord just imprisoned it.


As to letting never born do it but not the PCs. Maybe if it’s a dragon blooded game. If something ca be done solars should be able to do it. Not necessarily easily, not necessarily as well as somebody else but if you say it is completely imposable for a solar PC you should be saying it is completely imposable for all NPCs (eg time travel in my games)


Edward

 

[nero1]

Re: thumb down

Bla bla bla "dear players, watch me as I tell you the story of awesome stuff happening - sadly none of it done by you or your characters" bla bla bla.


I already got you. Exalted is the game where people play solars. the embodiment of perfection. Anything is possible.

If you are trying to look like a moron you sure are getting to the point. Of course Anything IS possible and the collectively told tale is the center of the fun of Exalted. This thread was just discussing whether it's advisable or not doing such a thing. As I said in other post: i think that it would not be something very interesting for a chronicle, while it would be interesting to have a DL forged into something that falls in the hands of PCs. IMHO. Then you can go on blablablaing and finding enemies in the shadows, for what's worth.

 

[Persell]

You were saying with your allegory that deathlords are not ghosts. I was saying, they are ghosts, albeit powerful ones.

Per the core book, Deathlords are ghosts.  The text goes on to read, however, that saying a Deathlord is just a powerful ghost is like saying a Solar is a powerful mortal.