Culture Misappropriation

[simj26]

Simple, as always. No rants.


I've seen people who just love to use foreign names and cultures, and don't get me wrong, that's fine. But at times, since I live in a multi-cultural society, populated by Chinese, Indians, Malays, and Eurasians, I tend to see more of the 'exotic' cultures being...misappropriated (roll credits). As such, it pains me to see Chinese names that aren't, Japanese names that aren't, Indian names that aren't, and no mention of how their culture and upbringing affected the character at all.


Here's where it gets ranty.


What is the DEAL? What's so hard about pulling up Google? What's so hard about fucking RESEARCHING THE DAMN THING? I mean, by the Gods, everyone in this site has, and without any doubt I can claim this, an internet connection. The amazing thing about the internet is that you can fucking bring up a new tab, open up Bing or Yahoo or some shit, and bloody DO SOME RESEARCH, YA FUCKIN GOB.  Is it that shameful to go and type in "common last names in Timbuktu"? 


Oh, what's that? You're trying to be a special snowflake? Well, KISS MY ASSi'll fix that thread some day. 

 

[RatFlail]

But I am le tired.

 

[simj26]

But I am le tired.

Well.


Then.


Have a nap.


THEN FIRE ZE MISSI--


WAIT, THIS ISN'T A MEME THREAD. GET BACK ON TOPIC.

 

[Teh Frixz]

What about elves and dwarves 

 

[Irick]

I think this is a problematic issue that requires nuanced delineations and thought.


One side leads to sorts of double standards by which we exclude by virtue of the very differences we could be celebrating. I do not expect someone playing up a chivalric knight to read The Romance of the Rose. It is far more likely they will draw from some pop culture retelling of a centuries old folk tale (Or a subversion thereof, e.g. Tangled). Likewise, I expect many people's ideas of mythic China to be influenced by Avatar: The Last Airbender as much as the Romance of the Three Kingdoms.


I don't think being intimately familiar with a culture is necessary. We consistently portray medieval characters with modern mindsets because we don't know how else to do them. Even with scholarly diligence I could not tell you with certainty how a medieval peasant viewed their life or his relationship with their lord.


Now, with that grain of salt, I will say that there is a difference between this sort of formation of a character from a position of limited information and malicious stereotyping. It's one thing if someone's pocahontas speaks english, grew up in a teepee on the plains and seems to have a very heart-felt beliefs about women's suffrage. It's quite another to have her running around in feather headdress chanting around a fire and scalping people. That side, I think we can unambiguously agree, is offensive and inappropriate.

 

[simj26]

What about elves and dwarves 

Not applicable here. There isn't anything to research on.

 

[adrian_]

Well fuck, so, as the leader of UKIP...


The Immigrants are not all terrorists?

 

[RatFlail]

What about elves and dwarves 

My elven has never been very good.


But there is a similar  case when you have another world that is culture-ish, but you want to separate it by new names. Or is the OP only about real world RPs?


Just don't get Hastur's name wrong. I mean, if you're going Lovecraftian, might as well invite all of the horror along.

 

[simj26]

@Irick


There are more issues than just the culture as well, though. My main gripe is the naming. 


Brian Klem's The Actress has an example, which the author admits to his fault, where he names a Japanese-American character 'Kwan', which is a CHINESE surname, not a Japanese one. What I'm seeing in most of the characters are similar issues like that. Or even worse, names that shouldn't POSSIBLY exist in the culture/language, such as putting Ls in a Japanese name (the japanese "alphabet", as it were, has no L)

 

[simj26]

Most of the time, it's just people trying to be smart or funny, by 'cleverly' naming their characters after something or another, and then saying "HAH, SEE WHAT I DID THERE?" but most of the time, it falls flat, because sometimes, one way or another, trying to look cool and smart usually doesn't work if no effort was put into researching it. Unless you count inputting some cool words on google translate and selecting the language you want as effort and research. 

 

[RatFlail]

I remember a comment by R.K. Milholland about how at one time he was very careful about getting Spanish in his comic correct, since one of his characters didn't speak English. Then a reader in Mexico complained that he got a verb tense wrong. From then on he ran the speech through Google translate several times out of spite. And then had the character cannibalized by cat girls. I don't blame him.


Most people aren't linguists or sociologists. Educating them is fine, because they wouldn't be playing the character if they weren't curious about the culture. But saying that they can't unless they get every detail about the culture correct blocks them from exploring points of view outside of their culture. If it bothers you, politely explain things to them, so that you expand their experience of the world around them.


It's an opportunity to show them the beauty of the culture.

 

[Irick]

@Irick


There are more issues than just the culture as well, though. My main gripe is the naming. 


Brian Klem's The Actress has an example, which the author admits to his fault, where he names a Japanese-American character 'Kwan', which is a CHINESE surname, not a Japanese one. What I'm seeing in most of the characters are similar issues like that. Or even worse, names that shouldn't POSSIBLY exist in the culture/language, such as putting Ls in a Japanese name (the japanese "alphabet", as it were, has no L)

This is an interesting example, because this difference is likely only meaningful in roman characters (or one of the phonetic subsets of japanese, but family names are rarely written out phonetically). I'm guessing, but I'd bet that the character for the family name here would be 全, which while it is read differently in Kanji (Goon/Kun) compared to the Han character carries the same meaning. It is only by romanization (which is arguably recontextualizing these cultures within our western linguistic system) that this distinction and thus the mistake comes into existence.


I'm not saying it's wrong or right, but I genuinely find this sort of paradox incredibly interesting from a philosophical and critical perspective. We fundamentally change 全 when we attempt to render it in a familiar script. How accurate can we ever hope to be to 全's culture when we can 'discover' new problems in the act of transliteration?

 

[Life.]

Mmmm I have to agree with you @simj22. Sure there's some various perspectives now to what cultures we see at the moment, but names are a definite thing. And names are important to people considering it's an identity. A person's story is all in the name. When we discuss historical figures how do we associate events to them? By their names. 


So I can see where it would irk you simj when users don't put the effort they should when they choose a name. I always research my names and even try to find names that would show a hidden side to my character. Of course the reader would have to have the initiative to research what the name meant if they wanted to receive that little tidbit of information. 


If a user truly wanted to grab the authenticity for their character then it is really recommended (by me) that they research at least names for the culture. 

 

[simj26]

This is an interesting example, because this difference is likely only meaningful in roman characters (or one of the phonetic subsets of japanese, but family names are rarely written out phonetically). I'm guessing, but I'd bet that the character for the family name here would be 全, which while it is read differently in Kanji (Goon/Kun) compared to the Han character carries the same meaning. It is only by romanization (which is arguably recontextualizing these cultures within our western linguistic system) that this distinction and thus the mistake comes into existence.


I'm not saying it's wrong or right, but I genuinely find this sort of paradox incredibly interesting from a philosophical and critical perspective. We fundamentally change 全 when we attempt to render it in a familiar script. How accurate can we ever hope to be to 全's culture when we can 'discover' new problems in the act of transliteration?

Klem actually admitted that he merely chose Kwan because it sounded Asian, and hadn't actually done any research, and he was quite apologetic about it. 

 

[Irick]

Klem actually admitted that he merely chose Kwan because it sounded Asian, and hadn't actually done any research, and he was quite apologetic about it. 

Well, it's good he apologized


I think it's a fascinating (and fun to think about) issue.

 

[ApfelSeine]

It's a trap, since no matter what you do youre screwed. Write a story that only includes white people in a sitting where multiple cultures exist? "Where are the other races? There's no representation!" Write a story that includes multiple cultures? "How can you write a character who's not the same race as you? That's cultural appropriation!" You can't win, so why not do whatever you want? As long as you're not blatantly offensive there's not really any harm done. Acknowledge the criticism but write what you feel you want to write.


That isn't to say that the OP doesn't have a point. It's frustrating when it feels that people are fetishizing an ethnicity or a language. I can understand that completely. But I believe that people often roleplay to have fun. They do things which some may find cringeworthy, such as have a super cliché anime-esque character or some such thing. But that's not the end of the world. It's best not to get up in arms about things that aren't a serious problem, though if it is something that's irksome it's alright to ask why a person choose a certain name or ethnicity.


The main issue I take with the premise of "don't use a character from an ethnicity you haven't researched" is that don't consider it crucial to have a character's background centered around how their ethnicity effected them. Why do we need to do that for an Asian charger but not a white character? Why can't they just be as they are? Not everyone experiences life in the same way after all. I'm mixed race but have experienced minimal racism, whereas some other mixed race people it almost daily. some families adhere stictly cultural norms, and others do not.


Have you ever heard of the "no true Scotsman fallacy?" It's the idea that "X ethnicity's experiences/personality/values should be Y because that's how their cultural values would dictate things to be". I think it's applicable here. We can't say that culture effects them significantly. It's likely to effect them of course, and you're free to ask people to elaborate on their character's background if you feel they haven't put thought into it, but there's no reason not to use people of foreign ethnicities just for the sake of doing so. It cannot be argured that the character doesn't make sense unless the name is one that isn't a real name. And it can't be argued that culture should dictate a character's experiences. It often will, but it's not necessary to demand accuracy in that respect unless it plays a major role in your roleplay. Overall, you can't really research how a character's culture will effect then without risking assuming that everyone will experience the same thing if they're a certain ethnicity. Perhaps the character is a cultural deviant.


In short, since that was kind of a half asleep ramble, I don't think it should be a prerequisite to research an ethnicity before portraying them. I think that may lead to more stereotyping than simply playing a character as one envisioned them. In the end, a person is a person matter where they come from, and each person's experiences don't always sync up exactly to hire most might experience growing up in a culture. It does often help to familiarize oneself with a culture, but depending on the circumstances and relevance to the rp, it's best to simply play a character as one sees them. (This doesn't apply to playing a character a certain way because that's how one envisioned people of that ethnicity to be. If you're going to do that you should research the culture. If they're just being played as being how they are with no focus on their background, it's a moot point)

 

[Saccharine Cyanide]

Someone should put together a tutorial on how to appreciate cultures instead of appropriating them in writing. People would find that helpful, I think.


Does anyone have a lot of experience with this?  College classes, personal experience, etc.?  Or just feels like doing a lot of research.  XP

 

[simj26]

It's a trap, since no matter what you do youre screwed. Write a story that only includes white people in a sitting where multiple cultures exist? "Where are the other races? There's no representation!" Write a story that includes multiple cultures? "How can you write a character who's not the same race as you? That's cultural appropriation!" You can't win, so why not do whatever you want? As long as you're not blatantly offensive there's not really any harm done. Acknowledge the criticism but write what you feel you want to write.


That isn't to say that the OP doesn't have a point. It's frustrating when it feels that people are fetishizing an ethnicity or a language. I can understand that completely. But I believe that people often roleplay to have fun. They do things which some may find cringeworthy, such as have a super cliché anime-esque character or some such thing. But that's not the end of the world. It's best not to get up in arms about things that aren't a serious problem, though if it is something that's irksome it's alright to ask why a person choose a certain name or ethnicity.


The main issue I take with the premise of "don't use a character from an ethnicity you haven't researched" is that don't consider it crucial to have a character's background centered around how their ethnicity effected them. Why do we need to do that for an Asian charger but not a white character? Why can't they just be as they are? Not everyone experiences life in the same way after all. I'm mixed race but have experienced minimal racism, whereas some other mixed race people it almost daily. some families adhere stictly cultural norms, and others do not.


Have you ever heard of the "no true Scotsman fallacy?" It's the idea that "X ethnicity's experiences/personality/values should be Y because that's how their cultural values would dictate things to be". I think it's applicable here. We can't say that culture effects them significantly. It's likely to effect them of course, and you're free to ask people to elaborate on their character's background if you feel they haven't put thought into it, but there's no reason not to use people of foreign ethnicities just for the sake of doing so. It cannot be argured that the character doesn't make sense unless the name is one that isn't a real name. And it can't be argued that culture should dictate a character's experiences. It often will, but it's not necessary to demand accuracy in that respect unless it plays a major role in your roleplay. Overall, you can't really research how a character's culture will effect then without risking assuming that everyone will experience the same thing if they're a certain ethnicity. Perhaps the character is a cultural deviant.


In short, since that was kind of a half asleep ramble, I don't think it should be a prerequisite to research an ethnicity before portraying them. I think that may lead to more stereotyping than simply playing a character as one envisioned them. In the end, a person is a person matter where they come from, and each person's experiences don't always sync up exactly to hire most might experience growing up in a culture. It does often help to familiarize oneself with a culture, but depending on the circumstances and relevance to the rp, it's best to simply play a character as one sees them. (This doesn't apply to playing a character a certain way because that's how one envisioned people of that ethnicity to be. If you're going to do that you should research the culture. If they're just being played as being how they are with no focus on their background, it's a moot point)

I like how you focus on perhaps the smallest part of my rant.


On retrospect, perhaps the title was a bit misleading.


In that case, I think I'd like to refocus on the main complaint: names.

 

[JayTee]

Have you ever heard of the "no true Scotsman fallacy?" It's the idea that "X ethnicity's experiences/personality/values should be Y because that's how their cultural values would dictate things to be".

Not quite. To quote the wiki article: "When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing"; i.e., those who perform that action are not part of our group and thus criticism of that action is not criticism of the group)"


Or:  


Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus likes sugar with his porridge."
Person A: "Ah yes, but no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."


The rest of your post is solid, though. 

 

[fluticasone]

I think this is highly dependent on the overall tone of the roleplay.


A setting wherein the entire tone is light and casual can get away with some mistakes. That being said, I still believe minimal research is required, especially when setting of the roleplay is in real life places and situations. Especially in names; this requires less than 10 minutes of research to see if your character's name is actually realistic. 


However, topics that deal with sensitive material such as WWII require a great deal of research and a lot of sensitivity. One cannot simply brush off the genocide of a race, so those playing a Nazi will need to look into why they might be a zealous followers and other such subjects. Or a character from Taiwan during that time; the country didn't even exist, their names divided between two cultures. You will need to explore the effects of the war and what their culture was like to accurately portray their personalities.

 

[ApfelSeine]

I like how you focus on perhaps the smallest part of my rant.


On retrospect, perhaps the title was a bit misleading.


In that case, I think I'd like to refocus on the main complaint: names.

I focused in on the title primarily, and the portion of the post which I took issue with. There are portions of your rant which I agree with or at least consider to be a reasonable perspective. Most of it actually, but I felt it worth bringing up that research is not always crucial to playing a character in a roleplay. It's recommended of course, but I tend to be wary of remarks that can come off as gatekeeping. Although it's rarely intent, I think it's common for people to try to tell others that they can't do something instead of giving them constructive feedback on how to improve. I feel that the discussion would be highly valuable if focused on the latter.


To refocus upon your main concern (ie using names without looking into the context), my perspective on this is that it's annoying sometimes, but it isn't so insulting that it's a serious issue. Names don't come easily to everyone, and many will simply search for a name that seems fitting.


Perhaps a name doesn't actually exist, and is just taken via Google translate because it sounds cool. There are people in real life with names that were given because they sound cool. First thing that comes to mind is foreign people who named their kid "@" or "Superman", but even people who speak the language are making their kid "north" or "racer" or whatever else. And with fantasy names, you often get a keyboard smash of a name that's meant to look impressive.


Basically, considering that Japan will name fictional characters things like "Sophie", "Luke", "Alexei", "Mei Lin", etc, with no concern for actually tying the name into the character's background, I figure that it's not inherently wrong to do things this way. That is my perspective, and I think you've got an entirely reasonable one of "this bugs me and I'd like people to put more thought into the details".


I don't mean to suggest that it's unreasonable to find using names without putting much thought into the implications to be aggravating. In fact I much prefer it when people put a lot of consideration into their character. I simply feel that there's a fine line between having standards and imposing them. I don't think it's abhorrent to name a character "Taberu" or "Madchen" or "Ampersand", even if they don't really make sense. If having illogical made up names really isn't suitable for the role play though, encourage the player to use a different name. If they're using a real name but you're annoyed that they're not putting consideration into having their name be one that is common for the culture (and instead is a name they haven't used since the 10th century or something), you've got every right to voice your concerns in a respectful way. If there's something that bothers you, it's important to find a way to voice your concern, while still recognizing that a person has every right to do create a character however they want, and that perhaps "because it sounds cool" is still something to consider a valid reason to use a name. Goodness knows celebrities do that all the time (though honestly I'm more concerned if it's a real person being stuck with a weird name).


Essentially, decide on why their improper usage of a name is bothering you and talk directly to them. Shouting into the void that "people should/shouldn't do X" is just going to make new (or even some old) players self conscious and paranoid that people will judge them from using non English names. I personally think the usage of non white characters with names that are from their country should be encouraged, which is why I'm voicing a dissenting opinion. (To be clear, nothing wrong with white characters or typically western names, I just prefer to see variety over similarity. That's my personal preference though.)

Not quite. To quote the wiki article: "When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing"; i.e., those who perform that action are not part of our group and thus criticism of that action is not criticism of the group)"


Or:  


Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus likes sugar with his porridge."
Person A: "Ah yes, but no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."


The rest of your post is solid, though. 

I might have poorly phrased that. I meant that people use this fallacy to reject characters because "that's not how they should be based on their culture". The argument that people should have their ethnicity inform their background in a certain way (or at all) falls into this fallacy because people will assume that a character shouldn't be a certain ethnicity because they don't fit what a "typical" person of that ethnicity is like or what they "typically" experience. Basically, they reject a decision from the established norm, when the reality is that "norm" is an average and not a definition.

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

3 hours ago, ApfelSeine said:





I focused in on the title primarily, and the portion of the post which I took issue with. There are portions of your rant which I agree with or at least consider to be a reasonable perspective. Most of it actually, but I felt it worth bringing up that research is not always crucial to playing a character in a roleplay. It's recommended of course, but I tend to be wary of remarks that can come off as gatekeeping. Although it's rarely intent, I think it's common for people to try to tell others that they can't do something instead of giving them constructive feedback on how to improve. I feel that the discussion would be highly valuable if focused on the latter.


To refocus upon your main concern (ie using names without looking into the context), my perspective on this is that it's annoying sometimes, but it isn't so insulting that it's a serious issue. Names don't come easily to everyone, and many will simply search for a name that seems fitting.


Perhaps a name doesn't actually exist, and is just taken via Google translate because it sounds cool. There are people in real life with names that were given because they sound cool. First thing that comes to mind is foreign people who named their kid "@" or "Superman", but even people who speak the language are making their kid "north" or "racer" or whatever else. And with fantasy names, you often get a keyboard smash of a name that's meant to look impressive.


Basically, considering that Japan will name fictional characters things like "Sophie", "Luke", "Alexei", "Mei Lin", etc, with no concern for actually tying the name into the character's background, I figure that it's not inherently wrong to do things this way. That is my perspective, and I think you've got an entirely reasonable one of "this bugs me and I'd like people to put more thought into the details".


I don't mean to suggest that it's unreasonable to find using names without putting much thought into the implications to be aggravating. In fact I much prefer it when people put a lot of consideration into their character. I simply feel that there's a fine line between having standards and imposing them. I don't think it's abhorrent to name a character "Taberu" or "Madchen" or "Ampersand", even if they don't really make sense. If having illogical made up names really isn't suitable for the role play though, encourage the player to use a different name. If they're using a real name but you're annoyed that they're not putting consideration into having their name be one that is common for the culture (and instead is a name they haven't used since the 10th century or something), you've got every right to voice your concerns in a respectful way. If there's something that bothers you, it's important to find a way to voice your concern, while still recognizing that a person has every right to do create a character however they want, and that perhaps "because it sounds cool" is still something to consider a valid reason to use a name. Goodness knows celebrities do that all the time (though honestly I'm more concerned if it's a real person being stuck with a weird name).


Essentially, decide on why their improper usage of a name is bothering you and talk directly to them. Shouting into the void that "people should/shouldn't do X" is just going to make new (or even some old) players self conscious and paranoid that people will judge them from using non English names. I personally think the usage of non white characters with names that are from their country should be encouraged, which is why I'm voicing a dissenting opinion. (To be clear, nothing wrong with white characters or typically western names, I just prefer to see variety over similarity. That's my personal preference though.)


I might have poorly phrased that. I meant that people use this fallacy to reject characters because "that's not how they should be based on their culture". The argument that people should have their ethnicity inform their background in a certain way (or at all) falls into this fallacy because people will assume that a character shouldn't be a certain ethnicity because they don't fit what a "typical" person of that ethnicity is like or what they "typically" experience. Basically, they reject a decision from the established norm, when the reality is that "norm" is an average and not a definition.




 

I'm just gonna focus on the stuff in here about names.


Sure, sometimes parents give their kids meme names or just make something up, but that isn't the point. It isn't about shaming someone for using a foreign name, it's about people using foreign names without actually researching them. You can find countless websites with countless names from countless cultures, it isn't hard, but a bunch of people still just make something up that makes next to no sense anyway. You can still pick a name "because it's cool" from one of those internet lists, and hell, in my opinion, they even tend to be cooler. I mean, you can make them sound cool, and have a cool meaning!


The point is, people should put thought into picking up foreign names, not just spew out whatever sounds cool. Of course, that can sometimes work depending on the character. But having your dude's loving everyday family call them "Lycas" instead of "Lucas" is a bit silly. And in the context of other languages, that's often what making up a name without research often ends up doing.

 

[call me rae]

 So I'm gonna have to disagree and play devil's advocate. Mostly because ( true story ) my sister worked as a nursing assistant and she had two patients named...wait for it.


Orange Jello ( oRANjehloh ) and La-a. ( ladasha )


And my day was once made that little bit brighter when Bruce Wayne Batman walked in to check out some books.


So look in a world where people be naming their kids Apple, Southwest, Orange Jello, and freaking Bruce Wayne Batman I think we can all suspend some disbelief.


Especially since most "japanese" roleplays don't take place in anything remotely resembling actual Japan.


Unless your going to also tell me that Japan is populated by school girls with large chests, neon hair, and a propensity to putting "kawaii *star eyes*" into every sentence. 


Cuz respectfully I'm gonna have to say I heavily doubt that is the case.


So yeah if it's not meant to be in anyway accurate to the real world place anyway what differenes does it make if they call themselves Yue Moon Moon, or Poki Uzumaki, or whatever. I mean if we're living in a world where people have naturally green hair than I think we can be a little lenient on naming conventions.


Now if for some reason this is actually taking place in real world Japan ( which is fairly rare but it can happen ) than yes. If your gonna put some basic research into the world at large you can at least do a two minute google search to make sure your name is something used in that country.


But also hey sometimes names surprise you. Apparently Rebecca is the 27th most popular female name in Italy. Who knew?


And once again in America we named our kids Orange Jello and Southwest. 


So are we really here to be throwing shade at Raven Darkshadow the Eternally Emo? or Poki Uzumaki  or whatever.

 

[ApfelSeine]

I'm just gonna focus on the stuff in here about names.


Sure, sometimes parents give their kids meme names or just make something up, but that isn't the point. It isn't about shaming someone for using a foreign name, it's about people using foreign names without actually researching them. You can find countless websites with countless names from countless cultures, it isn't hard, but a bunch of people still just make something up that makes next to no sense anyway. You can still pick a name "because it's cool" from one of those internet lists, and hell, in my opinion, they even tend to be cooler. I mean, you can make them sound cool, and have a cool meaning!


The point is, people should put thought into picking up foreign names, not just spew out whatever sounds cool. Of course, that can sometimes work depending on the character. But having your dude's loving everyday family call them "Lycas" instead of "Lucas" is a bit silly. And in the context of other languages, that's often what making up a name without research often ends up doing.

I think I may be misunderstanding something. What's the difference between using a foreign name, and researching foreign names and picking one? Say I named a German character Julia. Would it be somehow different if I had researched common German names and then named them Julia? For some, the naming process is to go for something unique or meaningful. Others pick names because they've heard them before, and still others pick names after searching through lists of common names. As long as it doesn't sound too unreasonable, I don't understand what the difference is.


I may have misunderstood what you're getting at, since the way I read it was "you can't come up with a name on your own, but if you find that same name though research it's okay".


I think what you might be saying is that some people pick names that aren't actual names in a culture and that they should use a real name, so I'll use a different example. Let's say I chose to name a German character Lila. That's not a German name, but it wouldn't be entirely implausible as far as names go. Is it wrong because it's not an actual German name? To some, names are just what seems to fit the character. I feel that if a reasonable attempt is made, there's not a significant problem.


(Also, if the problem is just a weird spelling, such as "lycus" vs "Lucas", can't you simply say "oh, that's a cool name, but people usually spell it "Lucas"?)

 

[The One Eyed Bandit]

2 minutes ago, ApfelSeine said:





I think I may be misunderstanding something. What's the difference between using a foreign name, and researching foreign names and picking one? Say I named a German character Julia. Would it be somehow different if I had researched common German names and then named them Julia? For some, the naming process is to go for something unique or meaningful. Others pick names because they've heard them before, and still others pick names after searching through lists of common names. As long as it doesn't sound too unreasonable, I don't understand what the difference is.


I may have misunderstood what you're getting at, since the way I read it was "you can't come up with a name on your own, but if you find that same name though research it's okay".


I think what you might be saying is that some people pick names that aren't actual names in a culture and that they should use a real name, so I'll use a different example. Let's say I chose to name a German character Lila. That's not a German name, but it wouldn't be entirely implausible as far as names go. Is it wrong because it's not an actual German name? To some, names are just what seems to fit the character. I feel that if a reasonable attempt is made, there's not a significant problem.


(Also, if the problem is just a weird spelling, such as "lycus" vs "Lucas", can't you simply say "oh, that's a cool name, but people usually spell it "Lucas"?)




 

No, that's not the point I'm making.


Sure, you might pick out a name that happens to be German, or you might make up a Japanese name that makes sense, but chances are if you haven't actually put research in, you won't.


And on the off chance you do, then it was more than likely just luck. The issue isn't "you haven't put the research in." That's the cause.


It's not about the weird spelling, it's that when you go off making up names in other languages, you'll often end up either butchering the language or making something that makes no sense.


I'm not saying that people DON'T have weird names or off the top of the head names every now and again, and I'm not saying that you should only give a character an name from their culture. I'm saying that if you try to give a character a Chinese name, make sure it's actually Chinese and make sure it isn't gibberish. Unless, again, you have a reason, then that's fine, but only if you have a reason.