Other Copying/Stealing VS Being Inspired by ideas

[Idea]

Hey there everyone!

I've recently seen a suggestion that, upon finding a roleplay to not be one's cup of tea, for that person to go and make a similar roleplay. Now my gut reaction to this "wait, that's really disrespectful, you're stealing their idea.", but at the same time I don't think it's wrong to make something similar to another's idea provided it is in the end of the day inspired by that idea, and not outright their idea, this is, if despite the similarities the idea you have is ultimately your own.

So, I wanted to ask, where is the line in the sand for all of you? At what point of what criteria can we say that one isn't simply copying or stealing an idea, but that they have a different idea that just happens to be inspired by a different one (in any kind of medium)?

Personally, I think the line is on the focus of the RP's exploration. So long as what the idea explores is entirely separate from what the original does, I would say you have a case of being inspired. A star wars fanfic exploring the life of one of the children killed in the prequels would be something I consider an original idea because the focus is on the life of the child and would probably have different themes and ideas than the original. Similarly, a sufficiently prevalent gimmick or change in the story's parameters like setting or character can make quite the change in the story.

So, what about you all? What do you think is your answer to this?

 

[Idea]

Themes and premise is okay but straightout copying of the plot/story/roles is wrong. But a lot of rps have similar themes and premises but how they are written and the direction they take will vary.

Sure, but I'm not asking right or wrong here, just where the line is drawn between copying something and being inspired by it.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Ask. It’s that simple. You see an idea you like just ask the person if you can use it or elements of it.

If the idea your borrowing from is a canon one than just put (inspired by X in canon).

 

[Idea]

If the idea your borrowing from is a canon one than just put (inspired by X in canon).

What do you mean by a 'canon one'?

 

[rae2nerdy]

What do you mean by a 'canon one'?

So say I want to use an idea for a Wizarding school based on Hogwarts but in an original roleplay.

I would put at the bottom

(inspired by Hogwarts from the Harry Potter series)

 

[Idea]

So say I want to use an idea for a Wizarding school based on Hogwarts but in an original roleplay.

I would put at the bottom

(inspired by Hogwarts from the Harry Potter series)

I see, thanks for clarifying

 

[CabalAnomicPotato]

Oh thats thought provoking, but I think my "line in the sand" might differ depending on the roleplay. I'll name a few scenarios I can come up with.

-(stealing from Idea a bit lol) Pre-determined world, differing plot line; basicially fanfiction, I believe two fanfictions can use the same world obviously, and if someone gets inspiration from another fanfiction I wouldn't mind if both fanfiction focused on the same aspects of said world (for example, if someone were making an Avatar fanfiction/roleplay and centered it around the innerworkings of the fire nation, I would be alright with someone doing the same thing), but where I draw the line is how each persons work develops (if the plots are a little too similar as they go along, i consider it full on copying and not okay!)

-Similar worlds and mechanics, similar to the fanfiction example, except the worlds in which these roleplays are built around are original! If two roleplayers make a roleplay and the worlds/mechanics are similar, its fine by me! A red flag for me is when the plot and story develop in similar ways, because then it just feels like copying the text in a different format.

-Open World styled roleplay, basicially roleplays that are a little less linear (think of DnD campains, or "Red Dead Redemption" style of roleplay) and a little more open ended. The plot usually has a definitave start and finish, with the "middle" section being mostly fluid. Similar worlds are alright, if the mechanics are different (if both of your worlds have specifically five forms of magic and they're exactly the same in both for example, thats fine as long as how they work/are learned/are gained is different). Similar worlds with same plot, are deffiently a no (thats just blatent copy paste hands down).

Aand there are probably way more! These are the instances I can come up with at the moment though.

 

[Idea]

-(stealing from Idea a bit lol) Pre-determined world, differing plot line; basicially fanfiction, I believe two fanfictions can use the same world obviously, and if someone gets inspiration from another fanfiction I wouldn't mind if both fanfiction focused on the same aspects of said world (for example, if someone were making an Avatar fanfiction/roleplay and centered it around the innerworkings of the fire nation, I would be alright with someone doing the same thing), but where I draw the line is how each persons work develops (if the plots are a little too similar as they go along, i consider it full on copying and not okay!)

-Similar worlds and mechanics, similar to the fanfiction example, except the worlds in which these roleplays are built around are original! If two roleplayers make a roleplay and the worlds/mechanics are similar, its fine by me! A red flag for me is when the plot and story develop in similar ways, because then it just feels like copying the text in a different format.

-Open World styled roleplay, basicially roleplays that are a little less linear (think of DnD campains, or "Red Dead Redemption" style of roleplay) and a little more open ended. The plot usually has a definitave start and finish, with the "middle" section being mostly fluid. Similar worlds are alright, if the mechanics are different (if both of your worlds have specifically five forms of magic and they're exactly the same in both for example, thats fine as long as how they work/are learned/are gained is different). Similar worlds with same plot, are deffiently a no (thats just blatent copy paste hands down).

So what I'm getting as a general rule for you, and do correct me if I'm wrong or oversimplifying, is that you believe the line in the sand is essentially if two roleplays do not have awareness of one another. So basically if what they are taking after is a greater body of work or just two original ideas that coincidentally happened to be similar, is that correct?

 

[CabalAnomicPotato]

So what I'm getting as a general rule for you, and do correct me if I'm wrong or oversimplifying, is that you believe the line in the sand is essentially if two roleplays do not have awareness of one another. So basically if what they are taking after is a greater body of work or just two original ideas that coincidentally happened to be similar, is that correct?

Yeah I think that's probably the best way to simplify it lol

 

[Idea]

Yeah I think that's probably the best way to simplify it lol

Ok, so if I may ask, why is it that those two are not copying the great body of work? Like the avatar fan fiction you mentioned earlier, what makes you think they are not copying avatar? Or do you think that they are, in fact, copying avatar, seeing as how they don't meet that common "not being aware of" criteria?

 

[CabalAnomicPotato]

Ok, so if I may ask, why is it that those two are not copying the great body of work? Like the avatar fan fiction you mentioned earlier, what makes you think they are not copying avatar? Or do you think that they are, in fact, copying avatar, seeing as how they don't meet that common "not being aware of" criteria?

Oh I see what you mean, Using your words I'd specify the "not being aware of" criteria as having to be a stipulation for roleplays taking inspiration from other roleplays. If both are based off of Avatar, I believe it will either be extremly obvious, or somewhere it will be mentioned

 

[Idea]

If both are based off of Avatar, I believe it will either be extremly obvious, or somewhere it will be mentioned

So I didn't really get it, would you or would you not consider they are copying avatar? And if they are not, then why is that.

 

[rae2nerdy]

So I didn't really get it, would you or would you not consider they are copying avatar? And if they are not, then why is that.

I think they consider it to be like fanfiction, which wouldn't really work under the premise of copying in the way you mean it. Fanfiction is an acknowledged offshoot of a canon property. So like say if I were to make a Harry Potter roleplay set in the Harry potter universe or using Harry potter characters that would be clearly labeled as Fandom on this site.

So obviously no one is going to think I'm JK Rowling writing a roleplay of my own canon work. They'll just think I'm copying aspects of her canon for my roleplay. And most likely I'll state exactly that somewhere in the roleplay as well.

 

[Idea]

So obviously no one is going to think I'm JK Rowling writing a roleplay of my own canon work. They'll just think I'm copying aspects of her canon for my roleplay. And most likely I'll state exactly that somewhere in the roleplay as well.

I want to clarify I am absolutely not talking about passing yourself as someone or pretending like the work is cannonical to the original or anything like. Just stealing the idea or copying whatever it is. So taking your example, it would what is the difference, the exact line, between making something based on Harry Potter versus something that is just a copy of Harry Potter with a different name so to speak.

 

[rae2nerdy]

I want to clarify I am absolutely not talking about passing yourself as someone or pretending like the work is cannonical to the original or anything like. Just stealing the idea or copying whatever it is. So taking your example, it would what is the difference, the exact line, between making something based on Harry Potter versus something that is just a copy of Harry Potter with a different name so to speak.

I think the problem your having is a confusion on how crediting works in fanfiction and fandom based roleplays. No one is going to take an element of a published work and pass it off as their own idea, they will always give some kind of written indication they are borrowing from the published work.

If that idea is from another user typically this is shown by tagging that person OR by linking back to the original roleplay/idea. If the idea is from a published work than most likely that will also be clearly stated. As in the example I showed you there would be some written indication similar to the below statements :

- This is a Harry Potter roleplay
- This is a Harry Potter AU roleplay (alternate universe with Harry Potter elements)
- This roleplay is inspired by Harry Potter
- X in the roleplay is inspired by X elements of Harry Potter


tl;dr the exact line is that you are acknowledging that you are taking your idea from someone else and giving credit to the original creator.

 

[Idea]

I think the problem your having is you are understanding that Crediting an original work is built into fanfiction. So it's never like someone is taking an idea and passing it off as their own they are always going to give some written indication that they are borrowing an idea of another person.

If that idea is from another user typically this is shown by tagging that person OR by linking back to the original roleplay/idea. If the idea is from a published work than most likely that will also be clearly stated.

As in the example I showed you - the person would put something to the effect of
- This is a Harry Potter roleplay
- This is a Harry Potter AU roleplay (alternate universe with Harry Potter elements)
- This roleplay is inspired by Harry Potter
- X in the roleplay is inspired by X elements of Harry Potter

What I am saying is quite the opposite I'm afraid, I'm saying that I am not talking about crediting or anything in that vein. My question regards copying vs being inspired by. Outright using another idea versus simply using an idea that is derivative from or directly influenced by etc... it.

Now, I do also want to make it clear I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on your stance on this subject I just want to make my own question cleared and understand the answers provided to me in that regard. I am not asking about the morality or ways of making it acceptable to use someone else's work, I am saying what distinguishes using someone else's work from something which is your work but heavily and directly based on something another produced.

 

[rae2nerdy]

What I am saying is quite the opposite I'm afraid, I'm saying that I am not talking about crediting or anything in that vein. My question regards copying vs being inspired by. Outright using another idea versus simply using an idea that is derivative from or directly influenced by etc... it.

Now, I do also want to make it clear I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on your stance on this subject I just want to make my own question cleared and understand the answers provided to me in that regard. I am not asking about the morality or ways of making it acceptable to use someone else's work, I am saying what distinguishes using someone else's work from something which is your work but heavily and directly based on something another produced.

And I am saying that to me the answer is one of semantics. So to me "Copying" and "Inspired By" both describe the act of taking an idea that is not your own and using it for your own purposes. The differences comes down to a matter of courtesy/crediting.

If you act like the idea is your own and you came up with it all by yourself than you are stealing.
If you however contact the other person and ask them if you can use whatever parts of their work you want than you are either copying/inspired by their work
If you are using a canon work and you clearly state the parts that are from canon than you are also either copying/inspired by the canon work.

Like there isn't really any difference in the actual act of "I have found this idea that I like and I'm going to use it in my own roleplay". To me the only difference is "Did I ask this person if I could use their work or did I not? And if I can't ask them did I at least indicate the idea was not originally my own?"

 

[Idea]

And I am saying that to me the answer is one of semantics. So to me "Copying" and "Inspired By" both describe the act of taking an idea that is not your own and using it for your own purposes. The differences comes down to a matter of courtesy/crediting.

If you act like the idea is your own and you came up with it all by yourself than you are stealing.
If you however contact the other person and ask them if you can use whatever parts of their work you want than you are either copying/inspired by their work
If you are using a canon work and you clearly state the parts that are from canon than you are also either copying/inspired by the canon work.

Like there isn't really any difference in the actual act of "I have found this idea that I like and I'm going to use it in my own roleplay". To me the only difference is "Did I ask this person if I could use their work or did I not? And if I can't ask them did I at least indicate the idea was not originally my own?"

Ok, uhm, in that case what do you call the thing that I'm calling "being inspired by"? It isn't humanely possible to have an idea that is 100% not derived from something else, be it your experiences, views you learned from your parents and quite often art and such that you consume. Pretty much all artists are themselves inspired by, and this using the typical term not the way you define it, the works of others. Point being that the concept does exist, of taking influence and ideas from others and creating something that is your own shaped to a degree by that, for lack of a better word, inspiration.

So, what would you call that?

 

[rae2nerdy]

Ok, uhm, in that case what do you call the thing that I'm calling "being inspired by"? It isn't humanely possible to have an idea that is 100% not derived from something else, be it your experiences, views you learned from your parents and quite often art and such that you consume. Pretty much all artists are themselves inspired by, and this using the typical term not the way you define it, the works of others. Point being that the concept does exist, of taking influence and ideas from others and creating something that is your own shaped to a degree by that, for lack of a better word, inspiration.

So, what would you call that?

I'm not sure what your talking about specifically? Are you directly taking ideas from another work? Than you are inspired by/copying it (and see above post). If you are coming up with your own idea that happens to be similar to something else than you are making an original work and I don't see why you would be worried?

It's like in fiction books where they put that disclaimer : This is a work of fiction, any similarity to real persons or places is entirely accidental. (or you know words to that affect)

EDIT TO ADD

So to me this boils down to a question in intent. Did I intentionally take an idea from someone else? Than my work would be inspired by/copied from that person's work. And I should definitely credit it.

If I just come up with my own idea that is similar than that's not really copying. Because realistically no one can know every single idea that has been created throughout time. And if you happen to come up with a similar idea accidentally than it's still your own idea and you aren't copying/inspired by anyone.

As an example I once created a Space Force known as the Dreadnaughts (inspired by a hero from a book I read once), they were individuals chosen by a cosmic force to patrol the galaxy and fight injustice. My partner at the time told me that I had basically just described the Green Lantern Corps. I had no idea, never really watched Green Lantern and knew only the bare bones of his back story. I told them that funnily enough Dreadnaught in the book series wasn't even a space fighter, it was a transwoman who inherited a power from some other hero and had to fight that hero's archnemesis. The only thing I had taken from the character was the name and the rough power outline.

So in this case I was inspired by/copying some parts of the story (the name and power set of the character Dreadnaught) but also making up my own idea (galactic space force) that also happened to be similar to a separate canon.

But I wouldn't say that I was also inspired by/copying Green Lantern because I don't know that series or character.

 

[Idea]

Than you are inspired by/copying it (and see above post). If you are coming up with your own idea that happens to be similar to something else than you are making an original work and I don't see why you would be worried?

There is a difference between taking ideas and still making your own thing, and taking ideas and just doing the other thing again, and what my original question is about is the line drawn between the two. Since you said you don't believe there is a line between being inspired by something and copying that something, I'm asking you what you call the other side of that distinction.

To give an example, The Chronicles of Narnia was famously inspired by the Bible, something which was worked into many of it's story beats and symbolism. However, you wouldn't, or at least I wouldn't say that it copied the Bible, the two works are clearly distinctive. An example in RP would be for example you make an RP about the survivors of a magical apocalypse and I make an RP about a magical apocalypse that is different from yours

A copy on the other hand would be for instance making an RP that is also about a magical apocalypse of the same kind as yours and also making the RP about the surviors.

Am I getting the point across or...

 

[rae2nerdy]

There is a difference between taking ideas and still making your own thing, and taking ideas and just doing the other thing again, and what my original question is about is the line drawn between the two. Since you said you don't believe there is a line between being inspired by something and copying that something, I'm asking you what you call the other side of that distinction.

To give an example, The Chronicles of Narnia was famously inspired by the Bible, something which was worked into many of it's story beats and symbolism. However, you wouldn't, or at least I wouldn't say that it copied the Bible, the two works are clearly distinctive. An example in RP would be for example you make an RP about the survivors of a magical apocalypse and I make an RP about a magical apocalypse that is different from yours

A copy on the other hand would be for instance making an RP that is also about a magical apocalypse of the same kind as yours and also making the RP about the surviors.

Am I getting the point across or...

I go into this in my edit but to me the distinction is one of intent

Did I intentionally take someone's idea and remake it in my own way? (than I'm copying/inspired by and should credit)
Did I just make an idea that is similar without any knowledge of the other work (than it's my own idea and i'm not copying/inspired by anyone)

 

[Idea]

I go into this in my edit but to me the distinction is one of intent

Did I intentionally take someone's idea and remake it in my own way? (than I'm copying/inspired by and should credit)
Did I just make an idea that is similar without any knowledge of the other work (than it's my own idea and i'm not copying/inspired by anyone)

Ah sorry didn't see your edit. That said it doesn't really answer the distinction I pointed out where you are aware that you are taking elements of someone's work but not copying that work as a whole or remaking that works as your own, while again still being fully aware that some element directly led to your own idea or are even your own idea.

For instance (and if this last example still doesn't get the point across then I propose we end the discussion here on account of the communication gap) if I were to, after seeing the lord of the rings, write a book with about two deep friends going on a journey to save the world together because I liked Sam's and Frodo's arc in LOTR so much. So I'm fully aware that the other work exists, but is it really copying LOTR if I write this relationship between two friends as an entirely separate entity that just happened to be prompted by my appreciation of a similar relationship in that other body of work? And if there is a distinction between that and just straight up copying LOTR then what would you call it?

 

[rae2nerdy]

Ah sorry didn't see your edit. That said it doesn't really answer the distinction I pointed out where you are aware that you are taking elements of someone's work but not copying that work as a whole or remaking that works as your own, while again still being fully aware that some element directly led to your own idea or are even your own idea.

For instance (and if this last example still doesn't get the point across then I propose we end the discussion here on account of the communication gap) if I were to, after seeing the lord of the rings, write a book with about two deep friends going on a journey to save the world together because I liked Sam's and Frodo's arc in LOTR so much. So I'm fully aware that the other work exists, but is it really copying LOTR if I write this relationship between two friends as an entirely separate entity that just happened to be prompted by my appreciation of a similar relationship in that other body of work? And if there is a distinction between that and just straight up copying LOTR then what would you call it?

In your example you using a trope that is not directly identifiable to LOTR. It's pretty much a basic premise to any number of adventure based stories. So unless you set the roleplay in LOTR world or made carbon copies of Sam and Frodo for the characters I wouldn't worry about it.

I mean I guess if it bothered you, you could say "I got this idea while watching LOTR" but it honestly wouldn't be necessary.

That's like if I wrote a roleplay about kids going to a Wizard School. Yeah I might have been given the craving by watching Harry Potter but JK Rowling did not invent the idea herself. So unless my Wizarding School was directly based on Hogwarts I wouldn't consider it inspired by/copying Harry Potter.

 

[Idea]

In your example you using a trope that is not directly identifiable to LOTR. It's pretty much a basic premise to any number of adventure based stories. So unless you set the roleplay in LOTR world or made carbon copies of Sam and Frodo for the characters I wouldn't worry about it.

I mean I guess if it bothered you, you could say "I got this idea while watching LOTR" but it honestly wouldn't be necessary.

Well, yeah, but I'm not worried about it. I am just asking, for examples which are not obvious, where the line in the sand is drawn (which is my original question) and to you specifically what this "using an idea that is not directly identifiable to -work-", while still taking direct inspiration from that work precisely to get to that idea , what word you have for it. Because it's not always completely unrelated or carbon copy, that would be a false dicotomy.

 

[rae2nerdy]

Well, yeah, but I'm not worried about it. I am just asking, for examples which are not obvious, where the line in the sand is drawn (which is my original question) and to you specifically what this "using an idea that is not directly identifiable to -work-", while still taking direct inspiration from that work precisely to get to that idea , what word you have for it. Because it's not always completely unrelated or carbon copy, that would be a false dicotomy.

I was using the general you. Not you specifically.

And to me it's basically down to how to how exclusive is your idea to the original work? If your just taking basic tropes or loose relationship dynamics than you're making your own original work. If you are taking specific ideas tied directly to the original work than your inspired by/copying.