Charm idea.

[Hanat-Osul]

So I want to build a Charm that lets a Deathknight pass on TERRIBLE OCCULT KNOWLEDGE to a mortal servant at the cost of the latter's sanity...


Lore or Occult?

 

[Flagg]

The Lore/Occult split has always bugged me. Lore is supposed to be book-learning. Occult is supposed to be spirit-knowledge and spellcasting. Why are those last two, especially in the highly magical world of Exalted, special enough to have a separate Ability? It's like having Melee, and another Ability called "Clubs and Knives". WTF?


-S

 

[Hanat-Osul]

Yeah... and the Charm trees are no help, either, since the Abyssal Lore tree is comprised of "kill shit" from the book and "the Void" from you.

 

[Persell]

I say lore only because the solars have a similar charm under the lore tree. I know that Abyssals and Solars are as different as night and day (haha), but i guess it would make the most sense.

 

[Flagg]

I guess the only way I can reasonably break it down is: Lore is "shit you can see", and Occult is "shit you can't."


-S

 

[Hanat-Osul]

Huh.  By that rationale, Still, it should be Occult, since it's for passing on occult knowledge...

 

[Flagg]

What do you consider "occult knowledge"? Is it "occult" in that it pertains to spirits and spellcasting, or "occult" in the sense of the word's actual definition?


-S

 

[Hanat-Osul]

If we're separating knowledge into Lore and Occult, I take Occult to mean esoteric, hidden, spiritual, and Lore to mean political, historical, mathematical.


The idea behind the Charm is to burn a measure of the Abyssal's knowledge of occult principles - Essence manipulation, the nature of spirits, summoning, warding, etc. - into the mortal's head.


I was thinking I'd make Blood Inscription Tech. or Ghost-Warding Glyph a pre-req.  The Abyssal'd scribble a bloody rune on his forehead and curse him with unclean knowledge, making him a useful and easily malleable assistant...

 

[Persell]

With that definition i would definatly put it under occult then.

 

[Flagg]

If we're separating knowledge into Lore and Occult' date=' I take Occult to mean esoteric, hidden, spiritual, and Lore to mean political, historical, mathematical.[/quote']
the problem as I see it, (with WW's breakdown, not necessarily your own) is that things like dealing with ghosts and spirits, knowledge covered by the Occult Ability, is not hidden or esoteric. It's an every day fact of life for almost everybody.


On the flip side, deciphering ancient First age technologies, lost history, and the nature of the Wyld, knowledge which IS hidden and esoteric in the AoS, is covered by Lore.


-S

 

[Hanat-Osul]

Yeah...


yeah.  Fuck, it's a mess.


So I should go with Occult, then?

 

[Flagg]

I think that's much more of a Thrown Charm.


-S

 

[Hanat-Osul]

I think that's much more of a Thrown Charm.
-S

Without your genius, Stillborn, this world would crumble.


Thanks, dude.

 

[Flagg]

In all seriousness, you might consider Performance or Presence. Check out the existing Charms in those two trees.


-S

 

[wordman]

I always considered Lore to be a passive measure of education, i.e. "what you know", while Occult was an active "what you do". That is, any roll to figure out it a character knows something or can figure something out is Lore. Any roll to manipulate magical forces in some way (including binding them into an artifact) is Occult.


I then disregard any reference in the books (and there are many) that suggests otherwise as the ramblings of an author who is as confused about Lore and Occult as I used to be.


For example, clearly the main book is wrong when it has the audacity to suggest that attuning to a manse requires a Lore roll. Attuning is obviously an active maniuplation of magic, and thus under the perview of Occult.

 

[Kajata]

Yeah, I think sometimes you need to just take your own spin on what a certain ability is (cos let's be honest, the writers don't care for the logical nonsense we call continuity) and stick with it.  If you like occult to be one thing and lore to be another and that's how you run your game, all power to you.  Just don't change it on your players mid story

 

[Forn Clakes]

I've gone with Lore, mainly for most of the reasons previously posted.


~FC.

 

[Samiel]

Lore: General Knowledge and Education about worldly affairs and maths, etc. Also, manipulation of technologies or ambient essence effects not controlled or related to an essence wielder or other intelligent agent.


Occult: Dealing with or manipulating intelligent beings of an inhuman bent, or manipulating patterned essence (not ambient)-magic.


Lore: Static things


Occult: Dynamic things


With solars, transference of stuff falls under lore. Abyssals tend to do the same things with a different bent, or do the opposite, falling under the same purview. Therefore I would say either they have a lore charm like power-awarding-prana, or they have a potent charm allowing them to add dice to a knowledge-based pool temporarily by ripping the knowledge from someone else: The abyssals aren't usually about delegation, they are about personal power.

 

[Persell]

I voted Lore because you're suggesting a charm. I realise that the 'transfer' involves Occult knowledge, but the transfer of stuff (knowledge, essence, willpower, health), and the manipulation of 'structure' has been and always will be the purview of Lore (as far as 1st ed. goes, 2nd ed. is a mystery presently).


If you were making it a spell, then the answer would be obvious, of course.