Character Sheet Pet Peeves

[Quincunx]

What are some things you guys really dislike seeing in character sheets?


For me, it's large length requirements for personality sections, especially if there's not a clear goal for your character to be reaching and no requirement to state the thing motivating them. In my opinion, having a solid, multilayered motivation and goal is more important than the traits that influence how they go after that goal. That's just me though.

 

[Epiphany]

I have to second 'personality' as the most worthless part of a character sheet.


Mostly because it violates the fundamental "show, don't tell" rule of writing. Personality is something I should be able to infer from your writing, not from your writeup. Personality writeups even reverse show don't tell.. When someone writes lengthy paragraphs on how good-natured or charming or loyal they are, it's telling me that this is a player who is expecting other players to treat their character according to their personality writeup, not according to what they actually write in-game.


I'm also pretty ambivalent about Appearance sections if paired with character artwork or photos. Most of what people write in Appearance is something you can just see for yourself in the picture.


You know what is awesomely useful in sheets, though? Explanations on what a character's voice sounds like. How they typically stand. The kind of staging details a writer doesn't put in every single post but which can inform my mental picture of what they're like. That's good stuff.

 

[JayTee]

For me, I hate a lack of compression. I don't mind if you write a dozen paragraphs detailing every intricate aspect of your characters background and personality, but I do hate it when you wont put all that shit behind a spoiler tag or something to prevent it from taking up so much space. This is especially annoying when multiple people do it, and I have to scroll for ages to reference my own sheet because everyone else's sheets are so huge.


Oh, and I swear to god, those cutesy little templates you use more often than not just make it a pain to read, with those weird fonts and nigh random formatting. If a templates doesn't expedite readability, don't even bother using one. Plain text that shit.

 

[Quincunx]

I have to second 'personality' as the most worthless part of a character sheet.
Mostly because it violates the fundamental "show, don't tell" rule of writing. Personality is something I should be able to infer from your writing, not from your writeup. Personality writeups even reverse show don't tell.. When someone writes lengthy paragraphs on how good-natured or charming or loyal they are, it's telling me that this is a player who is expecting other players to treat their character according to their personality writeup, not according to what they actually write in-game.


I'm also pretty ambivalent about Appearance sections if paired with character artwork or photos. Most of what people write in Appearance is something you can just see for yourself in the picture.


You know what is awesomely useful in sheets, though? Explanations on what a character's voice sounds like. How they typically stand. The kind of staging details a writer doesn't put in every single post but which can inform my mental picture of what they're like. That's good stuff.

That's a good point. I include Personality because I want some assurance that the character isn't just there to get a specific kind of attention (I need to be sure a character isn't just a vessel for angst, flawless, or there for the sole purpose of getting attention/sympathy/romance from other players), but I can see how it would be a hindrance to actually developing the personality in character.


And I never thought of those small details, but those are very good ideas!

 

[Sammi]

I, personally, hate the "Likes" and "Dislikes". They're pointless to the character sheet in a similar way as the "personality". They're things that should be found out about the character during the story because they, for the most part, serve no purpose.

 

[Quincunx]

For me, I hate a lack of compression. I don't mind if you write a dozen paragraphs detailing every intricate aspect of your characters background and personality, but I do hate it when you wont put all that shit behind a spoiler tag or something to prevent it from taking up so much space. This is especially annoying when multiple people do it, and I have to scroll for ages to reference my own sheet because everyone else's sheets are so huge.
Oh, and I swear to god, those cutesy little templates you use more often than not just make it a pain to read, with those weird fonts and nigh random formatting. If a templates doesn't expedite readability, don't even bother using one. Plain text that shit.

Agreed. I think minimization is a good skill to use in character sheets - if it can be expressed during the roleplay and it's not crucial for the GM to know beforehand, it shouldn't be in the character sheet.

I, personally, hate the "Likes" and "Dislikes". They're pointless to the character sheet in a similar way as the "personality". They're things that should be found out about the character during the story because they, for the most part, serve no purpose.

Also agreed. I've never found it essential to know that a character likes apples and dislikes morning people.

 

[Nonagon]

I've found myself agreeing with a lot of the points already proposed. I'm a big believer in the "show, don't tell" rule of writing, and stating a character's..well, character like that violates it in the worst way. Personally, I use personality sections to help me stick to a cohesive behavior; sometimes I end up with lots of different roleplays at the same time, and I need a refresher on the nature of the character I'm playing at the moment. Having a personality written out allows me to keep some consistency. I can also see the merit in ascertaining the intentions of the roleplayer behind the character through the personality section, but something tells me there has to be a better way, you know? Even still, in summary, I think that section does more harm than good.


On the other hand, there's really no upside to the likes/dislikes section, as far as I can see. It's useless. Oftentimes, I struggle to come up with a set of things to put in each of those, and then there's the issue of not wanting to copy the likes/dislikes of other characters already submitted..


What kind of character sheets would you propose, if there was no precedent to follow? I'm really interested in seeing your guys' ideas on how to make a character sheet that both conveys the nature of the character and at the same time isn't excessive. I really like @Epiphany 's idea of using the sound of the voice and the stance of a character. Personally, I'd propose a small scenario- a challenge to solve, riddle, or an event- and ask for a sample paragraph or two from the character's perspective: how they would go about completing the challenge or what they would think of while doing so. That way, it's showing rather than telling, and it can give you a feel for the character's headspace before interacting with them.

 

[Mordecai]

My least favourite is likes and dislikes. It's even worse when in dislikes people put things like 'rape' and 'being murdered' and 'having their fingernails slowly removed from their fingers with pliers.'


Of course... 99.9% of people don't genuinely enjoy those things.

 

[Dusky]

What kind of character sheets would you propose, if there was no precedent to follow? I'm really interested in seeing your guys' ideas on how to make a character sheet that both conveys the nature of the character and at the same time isn't excessive. I really like @Epiphany 's idea of using the sound of the voice and the stance of a character. Personally, I'd propose a small scenario- a challenge to solve, riddle, or an event- and ask for a sample paragraph or two from the character's perspective: how they would go about completing the challenge or what they would think of while doing so. That way, it's showing rather than telling, and it can give you a feel for the character's headspace before interacting with them.

This is generally what I ask from my roleplayers. Not necessarily with a task... but I do outline some information I need to know about their character, give them a prompt, and tell them to give me a narrative piece from their character's perspective which includes what I need to know.


I've found it works quite well.

 

[Epiphany]

@JayTee


Ooooh, good ones. Text spam is annoying when you're just trying to find your sheet.


Text spam in bizarre fonts that are hard to read is annoying to the power of annoying.


@Mollisol


You make an interesting point; that people who fill out Personality on their character sheet may be doing so for the Storyteller/DM/GM/Game Host/whatever instead of solely for other players. That said, if your goal is to make sure that people play characters compatible with the kind of story or game you want to run, I see nothing wrong in asking for character submissions to include a plain, out of character explanation for what the player wants to achieve with their character. There's a lot less room for misinterpretation when intent isn't hidden behind 12 paragraphs of flowery prose.


@Sammi


I haven't seen a lot of Likes and Dislikes but agreed. Frankly, I'd find a player's likes and dislikes a more relevant part of a character sheet than their character's. You can infer the latter from play but the former can help you to avoid making mistakes with some folks.


@Nonagon


I suppose I haven't had an issue with remembering the personality of my character, such that going back to a Personality section is a necessary reminder. I usually refresh my memory by reading the last thing or two I posted and it gets me back into the voice of the character. That said, if having a Personality section of your character sheet helps you then that's very good reason to have it. You are the primary person served by your sheet, after all. I've just always assumed people listed things like Personality because they wanted other players to read and abide by it, which is what I object to.


As for a character template, it'd be helpful if someone could put up a draft that we can edit and pick away at.


In terms of new, useful content though, I'll propose the following:

• Staging Details: This section is intended to capture those details that are usually consistent from scene to scene but that the player is unlikely to reiterate in every single post.
  Useful Things: Your accent, your manner of speech, how you walk, how you stand by default, how well groomed you usually are, etc. In short, any detail that adds color and imagery but isn't likely something you'd react to in a post.
  
• Not Useful Things: Your clothes (depending on game but they're likely to vary), your character's habitual smirk (that's something worth writing and if they really smirk all the time, write it every time). In short, anything another character is likely to react to is worth putting in your post.
  

[*]OOC (Out of Character) Goals: This section should be populated with what you, the player wants for your character. If you want to play a brooding vampire, say so. If you like having your characters tortured, or if you really don't like them tortured, this is the spot for it. Useful Things: Tell other players and the person running the game what you like, what you hope for and what you'd prefer to avoid. Only include your character's goals if those are your goals.



Other folks are welcome to add or subtract their own ideas.

 

[Epiphany]

Personally, I'd propose a small scenario- a challenge to solve, riddle, or an event- and ask for a sample paragraph or two from the character's perspective: how they would go about completing the challenge or what they would think of while doing so. That way, it's showing rather than telling, and it can give you a feel for the character's headspace before interacting with them.

This is interesting. But to be fair and, in particular, to get good accuracy you should include an example.


And to follow my own advice...


Example: Your character needs to get into a building they're not allowed to be in.


Chen looked at the two security guards on either side of the lab door. Clad in a black leather coat with matching denim jeans, she blended with the night until she emerged from a nearby shadow and kicked the first guard so hard he collided with the second and sent them both sprawling. She had no time or talent to waste on breaking and entering so she simply kicked the glass door and shattered it with her boot. Striding through the spray of shards, she met the guard on the other side with a swift heel to the face, dropping him where he stood.


And then she was in, at the counter with its steel-encased medicine cabinet. Locked. Too hard to pry open. So she lifted a heavy office chair and brought it down on top of the metal frame with enough force to knock the whole cabinet out of the wall. Bottles sprayed everywhere and she frantically scrambled through them until her hand closed on the one she needed. A second later, she popped the lid, took a swig and swallowed before sighing with relief.


When her eyes opened, Chen saw more guards coming. Already the medication burned in her veins, quelling her need and clearing her head. With clenched hands, she popped all her knuckles at once. Time to get out the way she came in.

 

[MISTER UN. 0W3N]

It's actually kind of strange that threads don't have a "reserve app" process to gauge the character before giving them the go ahead to make a profile. That's just me though. Personally, I am a user's nightmare and have all the pet peeve's of a profile. Reason? If can commit yourself into completing this monstrous profile and "sell me your character" idea, then I know you are committed for the long run. That, and I have a shitty memory.


My pet peeve for profile skeletons is when there SHOULD be information that is important for the thread... but it's not there. I mostly refer to threads that have "action" in them and lacks the needed field to have aight fight scenes. When that happens, I tend to see a lot of GModding that makes no sense and a lot of out of character moments.

 

[Quincunx]

[QUOTE="mayhem TR4NQU1L17Y]
It's actually kind of strange that threads don't have a "reserve app" process to gauge the character before giving them the go ahead to make a profile. That's just me though. Personally, I am a user's nightmare and have all the pet peeve's of a profile. Reason? If can commit yourself into completing this monstrous profile and "sell me your character" idea, then I know you are committed for the long run. That, and I have a shitty memory.
My pet peeve for profile skeletons is when there SHOULD be information that is important for the thread... but it's not there. I mostly refer to threads that have "action" in them and lacks the needed field to have aight fight scenes. When that happens, I tend to see a lot of GModding that makes no sense and a lot of out of character moments.

[/QUOTE]
I'm confused about what you mean by "reserve app"?


I agree about some information being really important for action scenes. It helps to make mechanics for fight scenes that make constant winning physically impossible, but it can't stop power-playing or out of character moments.

 

[MISTER UN. 0W3N]

Well, for a site I was on for RPing, it was common for a thread to have two steps in getting into a thread. The second was the actual profile. The first was a sort of "mini profile" that contained brief information about the character and a post sample. Basically, it's your place to sell the character idea and if you can keep up with the thread owner's rules in terms of posting. If you pass, you get to work on the profile. If not, that's the end.

 

[Quincunx]

[QUOTE="mayhem TR4NQU1L17Y]Well, for a site I was on for RPing, it was common for a thread to have two steps in getting into a thread. The second was the actual profile. The first was a sort of "mini profile" that contained brief information about the character and a post sample. Basically, it's your place to sell the character idea and if you can keep up with the thread owner's rules in terms of posting. If you pass, you get to work on the profile. If not, that's the end.

[/QUOTE]
That sounds like it'd be a useful section on here. Maybe in this precedent-free character profile we're all creating for ourselves, mine would include the following player info:

1. What's your goal for your character in this roleplay? What do you want them to accomplish?
   
2. Why did you want to join this RP?
   
3. About how often should I expect you to post?
   
4. Part of the character sheet would be "How would your character solve x problem/handle x situation?" which would double as a writing sample.
   

 

[Coward]

Mine is just this line (something like this)


"It takes a while to become Mary Sue's friend, but once you do she is loyal and friendly"


Like, wow, you just described almost the whole human race. I don't know anyone who makes friends instantly, or anyone who considers themselves disloyal to their friends.

 

[MISTER UN. 0W3N]

Yep! These questions are pretty common in there as well. It's basically an audition before the initial test screen with profiles. It saves a lot of time and sanity.

 

[call me rae]

Incomplete character sheets. Where half or more of the information is ( to be determined , will reveal in roleplay, unknown, etc )


Pictures that are larger than all the text fields combined.


Also sections I've found useful - notes.


A place where you can put any additional information you want that isn't really relevant to the roleplay itself.


In groups I typically always request a writing sample and brief schedule of availability. Although those don't have to be on the CS itself.

 

[Sibylline Oracle]

Labeling links to different sections of one's own character profile as the lyrics to a song or poem makes it rather annoying to sort through. Example: Basic details can be found by clicking the link labeled "I've tried so hard", while background/history notes are found through the link labeled ".. and got so far". Just label separate sections as they are: "Basic Information" & "History" would suffice.


Also, a minor gripe, but depending on the site and one's monitor resolution, using too many columns to format your sheet in can make it really troublesome for some of us to read everything. It would be nice if one could simplify their character profile for easy reading instead of trying to make it look ornate and aesthetically pleasing.


Whatever happens, don't leave out any information you feel may be relevant to the RP later. Pulling a previously unmentioned fact out of your ass later in the RP, even if you had it planned all along, is called cheesing. Unless it's agreed upon by the GM and (preferably) all other players involved, don't do it.


"Show, don't tell" isn't a bad idea, but somebody (like the GM) should be able to know when you're cheesing or having your character act in a grossly inconsistent way with what you established about them. I know one too many players whose characters would change how they think and behave in an effort to have them be more successful at solving a dilemma in the plot. Unless consistency of character is of low concern, somebody that isn't the character's own creator should probably know more about that character's personality and motivations to keep the creator in check.


On the other hand, that could be misconstrued as offensive to the creator, so... I just fill in a personality field with motivations and behaviors, not characteristics like "carefree", and let others be the judge. ^^;

 

[Nonagon]

@Epiphany


I really should include an example, shouldn't I? I suppose the GM could fashion a small prompt based on the genre of the roleplay, making it more specific or general, simple or elaborate as needed, but here's the first one that came to my mind:

Spoiler

Your character realizes they are late for work, and their job is all the way across town. What are they to do?


This was the last time Sam would trust anyone else to set the alarm in his stead. Most mornings, he'd be up by 7, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to start his routine: Shower, shave, dress, eat a full breakfast, feed the cat. He would leave the house with twenty minutes to spare, arrive at work with five. He would be in his chair at 9:30 Sam's meticulous routine never served him wrong.


Except this morning, when it did.


Stretching out with a yawn, he rubbed the blurry sleep from his eyes. His toes curled beneath the cover, then stopped mid-motion. Something wasn't right. It took him a good minute to pinpoint that the alarm wasn't shrilling, and he grasped blindly for the alarm clock. 9:17. The dread of oversleeping settled like a weight in his gut, but Sam pulled through it nonetheless, scrambling from the covers and across the carpet to his dresser, searching for the first presentable thing he could find. 'If I'm late, I'm gonna be reprimanded, and if I get reprimanded, people are going to hate me-' he thought, yanking off striped pajama bottoms in favor of pressed slacks. '-and if people hate me, I'm not going to do my job well, and if I don't do my job well, I'll get fired-' His fingers flew up the line of buttons as he stumbled into the bathroom in search of his toothbrush. '-and if I get fired, I'll lose my apartment, and if I lose my apartment, I'll be homeless, and if I'm homelesssomeone'sgoingtodefinitelymugme-'


Sam toppled over the ball of round, grey fuzz on his way out the door, keys clutched in his hand. The cat gave an indignant mew in response to the unwarranted abuse, dashing away. "S-Sorry, buddy! It was a mistake!" Sam called back, unsure how to make up for the transgression against his closest companion. Maybe he'd get him a treat after work, but now was not the time for that.


He'd slammed the door of his grey, Chevy Impala, twisting the key in an attempt to transfer the time-sensitive nature of this trip to the vehicle through the ignition, but it revved to life as slow as ever. The trashcan clattered to the ground as he sped out of his parking space, down the narrow street.


I also see the benefits in a sort of two-step CS. I've been on other sites where the first step was called a 'reserve' that held your place while you filled out the CS, with questions like @Mollisol is suggesting.


After @Sibylline Oracle 's well-written response, I have some more ideas on this topic to share. After rewriting these thoughts over and over, I've come up with some points that are hopefully clear.

• Cheesing is certainly an issue one must keep in mind, I agree. My thoughts on this are such that if a roleplayer ends up altering the roleplay in a major way by adding in a detail/engaging in an action/doing something that was not consistent with the character sheet, the GM should have authority to protect their roleplay by whatever means they deem necessary. The writer should be culpable for their character's actions, and as such, they have the responsibility to include details pertinent to the action. However, I believe personality sections as they exist now (many a set of characteristics) have very little that the GM should be 'keeping in check'. For example, if a character is described as trustworthy and honest in a CS and then goes around spreading underhanded lies about a friend, is that inconsistent and potentially frustrating? Absolutely. Should the GM be stepping in (through some disciplinary action), if it doesn't throw a wrench in the plot? In my eyes, no. The GM has a responsibility to their roleplay, not to the writing of individual characters.
  
• Personality sections should exist in some form, with an emphasis less on characteristics and more on behaviors, experiences, motivations, and goals. Dispositional attribution in the form of characteristics is an unreliable determinant of future behavior (see: the fundamental attribution error). "Show, don't tell" is important, as I've stressed multiple times, but a sample prompt may not be all that's necessary for a GM to understand the character's role in the roleplay. I've been considering an idea of a small section that is a merge between what we now know as the 'history/backstory' section and the 'personality' section. I'm not sure what it would be called, but it would focus on current motivations, goals, roles in the world, etc. Much like a backstory, it could include details about how these factors came to be. This might also help in trimming some of the fat, so to speak, from history sections bloated with potentially unnecessary information, leaving more to be explored in the roleplay itself.
  

I would include an example, but I'm pooped from all this writing. Maybe later, if someone really wants me to.

 

[Quincunx]

@Epiphany
I really should include an example, shouldn't I? I suppose the GM could fashion a small prompt based on the genre of the roleplay, making it more specific or general, simple or elaborate as needed, but here's the first one that came to my mind:

Spoiler

Your character realizes they are late for work, and their job is all the way across town. What are they to do?


This was the last time Sam would trust anyone else to set the alarm in his stead. Most mornings, he'd be up by 7, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, ready to start his routine: Shower, shave, dress, eat a full breakfast, feed the cat. He would leave the house with twenty minutes to spare, arrive at work with five. He would be in his chair at 9:30 Sam's meticulous routine never served him wrong.


Except this morning, when it did.


Stretching out with a yawn, he rubbed the blurry sleep from his eyes. His toes curled beneath the cover, then stopped mid-motion. Something wasn't right. It took him a good minute to pinpoint that the alarm wasn't shrilling, and he grasped blindly for the alarm clock. 9:17. The dread of oversleeping settled like a weight in his gut, but Sam pulled through it nonetheless, scrambling from the covers and across the carpet to his dresser, searching for the first presentable thing he could find. 'If I'm late, I'm gonna be reprimanded, and if I get reprimanded, people are going to hate me-' he thought, yanking off striped pajama bottoms in favor of pressed slacks. '-and if people hate me, I'm not going to do my job well, and if I don't do my job well, I'll get fired-' His fingers flew up the line of buttons as he stumbled into the bathroom in search of his toothbrush. '-and if I get fired, I'll lose my apartment, and if I lose my apartment, I'll be homeless, and if I'm homelesssomeone'sgoingtodefinitelymugme-'


Sam toppled over the ball of round, grey fuzz on his way out the door, keys clutched in his hand. The cat gave an indignant mew in response to the unwarranted abuse, dashing away. "S-Sorry, buddy! It was a mistake!" Sam called back, unsure how to make up for the transgression against his closest companion. Maybe he'd get him a treat after work, but now was not the time for that.


He'd slammed the door of his grey, Chevy Impala, twisting the key in an attempt to transfer the time-sensitive nature of this trip to the vehicle through the ignition, but it revved to life as slow as ever. The trashcan clattered to the ground as he sped out of his parking space, down the narrow street.


I also see the benefits in a sort of two-step CS. I've been on other sites where the first step was called a 'reserve' that held your place while you filled out the CS, with questions like @Mollisol is suggesting.


After @Sibylline Oracle 's well-written response, I have some more ideas on this topic to share. After rewriting these thoughts over and over, I've come up with some points that are hopefully clear.

• Cheesing is certainly an issue one must keep in mind, I agree. My thoughts on this are such that if a roleplayer ends up altering the roleplay in a major way by adding in a detail/engaging in an action/doing something that was not consistent with the character sheet, the GM should have authority to protect their roleplay by whatever means they deem necessary. The writer should be culpable for their character's actions, and as such, they have the responsibility to include details pertinent to the action. However, I believe personality sections as they exist now (many a set of characteristics) have very little that the GM should be 'keeping in check'. For example, if a character is described as trustworthy and honest in a CS and then goes around spreading underhanded lies about a friend, is that inconsistent and potentially frustrating? Absolutely. Should the GM be stepping in (through some disciplinary action), if it doesn't throw a wrench in the plot? In my eyes, no. The GM has a responsibility to their roleplay, not to the writing of individual characters.
  
• Personality sections should exist in some form, with an emphasis less on characteristics and more on behaviors, experiences, motivations, and goals. Dispositional attribution in the form of characteristics is an unreliable determinant of future behavior (see: the fundamental attribution error). "Show, don't tell" is important, as I've stressed multiple times, but a sample prompt may not be all that's necessary for a GM to understand the character's role in the roleplay. I've been considering an idea of a small section that is a merge between what we now know as the 'history/backstory' section and the 'personality' section. I'm not sure what it would be called, but it would focus on current motivations, goals, roles in the world, etc. Much like a backstory, it could include details about how these factors came to be. This might also help in trimming some of the fat, so to speak, from history sections bloated with potentially unnecessary information, leaving more to be explored in the roleplay itself.
  

I would include an example, but I'm pooped from all this writing. Maybe later, if someone really wants me to.


In regards to your second point - in the last group RP I GMed, I had a "tell me about your character" section that could be used for personality and/or backstory. I used it to gauge the person's writing detail level as well as what they had to say about their character.