Character Problem

Ker'ion

Ker'ion

Primordial of Abstract Logic
I have a character in my game playing an Eclipse Solar.


He's trying to get some prisoners out of a Fey Army's prison area.  I've put them in a prison wagon that's a sentient construct, so he's planning on having the prisoners swear fealty and demanding that the Fey let his servants go.


Is this even allowed?


I'm thinking he's just pulling BS to get his way.
 
Are you referring to this as some form of the Eclipse diplomatic immunity?


If so, it's retarded, and the player should be beaten with a pillowcase full of doorknobs.
 
"Dude! I'd never really use that, whole 'Swear Undying Fealty in Word and Deed' thing. Dude! You've got to trust me. This is the only way out of this..."


I think I'd reserve the pillowcase full of doorknobs for his fellow players if they fell for this tripe...
 
wordman said:
Are the Fae even bound by Eclipse diplomacy? Why would they be?
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Yes.


Says so in the book.


And I was wanting to know if the tripe would actually work.  I'm thinking that them being Fae prisoners would make the fealty thing against policy, possibly even an attack on the Cataphract's sovereignity, thus an attack on the Fae itself.


The Fae do take their word very seriously.


(Yes, the Eclipse in question is the Eternal Miscreant himself, so I'm in need of a functional plan for thwarting his machinations)
 
Demanding courtesy isn't going to work--perhaps if the prisoners were already in his service before they were taken, he could ask politely for the return of his servants, but that's about it.


Eclipse pretty much get safe passage, and hospitality, not magical powers to demand things from lieges.  The good news is that the Fae could just laugh at how droll the Eclipse is being, and congratulate him on his wit.


Read your post again--this Eclipse is trying to get the prison wagon to let them go on his say so?  Then that is certainly bound to fail, without an order from its Master.  


The Master might come up with a plan to let the prisoners go--for a price.  A quest. A lock of hair.  A promise.  The color from one eye.  First born. Seventh born. Something.
 
Says so in the book.
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Well, if that is the yardstick, then you are in luck. The fae can get around oaths extremely easily. They don't even need to give a reason, just take a penalty. See Fair Folk, page 288 (Edit: that's 208). And before EM asks, Fae oaths are mechanically identical to those sanctified by an Eclipse.


If you want a reason with more meat, use the fact that for beings of chaos, Fair Folk are paradoxically found of rules. Even assuming the raksha recognize the Eclipse's binding as making the prisoners his servants now, since they were not his servants when they were captured, the Eclipse has essentially just stolen them without recompense from the Fae. That's very bad, mostly for the Eclipse. In the Wyld, that essentially obligates the Eclipse to the Fae. In other words, they essentially now have an oath on him, even if he does lead the prisoners out safely.


The Eclipse, in essence, is faced with a choice: either he sticks to social conventions or not. If he does, then the "servant" thing works, but he must accept the fae social convention in return. If he doesn't, then he is not bound, but the "servant" idea fails.
 
I think you can see this as a breach of protocal and an act of defiance against the host, in this case the Fea. The player interferes in a natural process within the Fea community, big no no in diplomatic circles. In this case it's the same as theft. You can demand things, but you can't take physical steps towards your desire. When you do you loose your immunity.


That is why if a player tries this I'd revoke his immunity, which is allowed if he breaks the rules of hospitality, and therefore looses his imunity and becomes an ordinary visitor like all other Exalts.
 
wordman said:
See Fair Folk, page 288.
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what exactly does the Buried Gods section of the Mountain FOlk chapter have to do with Fair Folk oaths?


and you're misinterpreting what the text says,  


the Eclipse Diplomatic Immunity isn't related to sanctified oaths. (at least mechanically)


They are adept at getting around the oaths required by adjurations, they get no free passes on skipping out of following an Eclipse Oath.
 
I have a character in my game playing an Eclipse Solar.
He's trying to get some prisoners out of a Fey Army's prison area.  I've put them in a prison wagon that's a sentient construct, so he's planning on having the prisoners swear fealty and demanding that the Fey let his servants go.


Is this even allowed?


I'm thinking he's just pulling BS to get his way.
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In what way does diplomatic immunity allow him to get prisoners set free? The Eclipse anima ability says:

Crowned Suns and their companions who are on legitimate business with those beings may not be attacked without just cause.
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The bold parts are my emphasis. Not only is the Eclipse not on legitimate business, no one is being attacked. Now, if he wanted to talk to the current owner of the enslaved, then that would be a legitimate reason for the anima ability to work. However he'd have to use his own suaveness to convince the Fair one to give up his new toys/dinner.
 
Spook said:
wordman said:
See Fair Folk, page 288.
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what exactly does the Buried Gods section of the Mountain FOlk chapter have to do with Fair Folk oaths?
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D'oh! Page 208. Sorry. Sidebar and text like "Breaking it involuntarily causes the character to suffer a catastrophic botch at the most poetically appropriate moment, exactly as though an Eclipse Caste Solar had sanctified the oath. The environmental penalty for working around the adjuration (see p. 131) is usually equal to its level."

Spook said:
the Eclipse Diplomatic Immunity isn't related to sanctified oaths. (at least mechanically)
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But the reason the fae pay any attention to Eclipse diplomatic immunity probably is. The "ancient pacts" that provide this immunity have to be based on something. For spirits, its the connection of the exalted to the celestial heirarchy. For demons, is the conditions of the Yozi surrender. For fae? All they have is either their oaths or just common courtesy. Not to mention which, signing pacts that bind every one of a breed as chaotic as the Fair Folk is something of a spurious notion, IMO.
 
One theory on the Fair Folk's restriction to this binding is by a deal made between them and the Solars of the first age, and in exchange for not expanding the borders of creation any more than they already had. Just an idea I had.
 
I've informed him that he either pays the Fae's price (:twisted:) or doesn't get to have any of them at all.
 
Mabye if he'd been polite in the first place' date=' he might have gotten them for a song. Literally.[/quote']
Ok, Jakk.


I know you've been busy with life and all, but how in the WORLD do you justify coming up with the thought that EM could have even CONSIDERED being polite in the first place?
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Ker'ion he still lurks from time to time.  In order to teach, you have to provide concrete examples, and possibly he'll log in, or just lurk, read that comment, and become inspired to be a better player.


It's not a strong possibility, but we live in a complex and amazing Universe, and stranger things have happened.
 
He actually said that he wasn't coming back since everyone here was a bunch of lousy untrustworthy gamers, stupid (with a few exceptions - Jakk was mentioned specifically), childish, and always sided against cannon (or his vision of cannon).


Because of all of this, he doesn't care what everyone on the board thinks and is never going to log in again unless someone here started talking about him, then he'd only be on long enough to bitch at them over it.


It apparently started over the Mortal Thaumaturgy Thread.  He seems to think that everyone said that the oWoD Thaumaturgy were ok for Exalted games.
 
he doesn't care what everyone on the board thinks and is never going to log in again unless someone here started talking about him' date=' then he'd only be on long enough to bitch at them over it.[/quote']
... and how is he going to know that if he never comes around pray tell?

He seems to think that everyone said that the oWoD Thaumaturgy were ok for Exalted games.
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Well, I for one, am not a fan of the idea. Which is precisely why I stayed the hell away from that thread. My opinion is irrelevant. If you think it would be fun, then Golden Rule the crap out of it.
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He actually said that he wasn't coming back since everyone here was a bunch of lousy untrustworthy gamers' date=' stupid (with a few exceptions - Jakk was mentioned specifically), childish, and always sided against cannon (or his vision of cannon).[/quote']
I'll stand beside a cannon, or behind it, but seldom in front of it.


Shall I help EM keep his vow by disabling his account? Hmm? Just ask, and it's done.
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Because of all of this' date=' he doesn't care what everyone on the board thinks and is never going to log in again unless someone here started talking about him, then he'd only be on long enough to bitch at them over it.[/quote']
A lone tear silently rolls down my cheek. Off in the distance, a dog barks.
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Solfi said:
If you think it would be fun, then Golden Rule the crap out of it.
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Funny thing about that.  EM's books, and EM has blatantly stated that as far as he's concerned, the Golden Rule doesn't exist in any game he's playing in.


And I tried to explain that most people were against the oWoD Thaumaturgy, but he didn't care (that's how he saw it, so that's how it was).


Flagg-


If you want to disable his account, go ahead, I'm getting tired of fighting with the little bastard.  Our friendship, thin as it is at some points, (and the use of his books) is the only thing keeping me from dumping his sorry ass back at his mother's house and telling him to come back when he grows up.
 
Solfi said:
If you think it would be fun' date=' then Golden Rule the crap out of it.[/quote']
Funny thing about that.  EM's books, and EM has blatantly stated that as far as he's concerned, the Golden Rule doesn't exist in any game he's playing in.
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If you listen closely, you can hear the vessel in my brain pop over that one.
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