Are Abyssals Too Powerful?

The Mad hatter

Junior Member
dont get me wrong by the title fokes, i love the abyssals, got me into exalted, but i was scanning though my abyssals book to get ideas for a villan in my solar game and it sorta hit me.... abyssals are easly the most powerful thing in the game.


heres how i figure this, there are 3 parts to it, (was four but i cant rember the fourth at 1:41 am)


Essence Engorgement Technique


With this charm a abyssal may add 10 to their peripheral essence pool, and may take this charm up to their perment essence.... now that means a abyssal with a essence score of 4 can add +40 motes to their peripheral, and givin the way this pool must be refilled, they likly wont be shy about their anima banners, pitting that much essence agenst a solar with the same XP and charm tree, just without that extra 40 motes... and suddenlty is becomes clear who will win from just a "I have more Ammo" area.... and if they have mastered the Melee charm tree (or even a decent amount of it) they are neigh impossable for anything less then a Filich or a Circle of Celestial Exalts.... and thats not conting when they hit really High Essence ratings of 6+


Magical Ability


Abyssals can learn all 3 levels of necromancy, and the first 2 levels of sorcery, and while solars can do the same but in reverse, Necromancy comes off as a little more powerful.... sure Solar circle Sorcery lets you cast Total Annilation, but being able to summon up hundreds of corpses (if you have the essence for it) and turn them loose on your foe? at a lower level of magic so its done faster? that solar wont have a chance to cast their spell.


Their Patrons


The U.S. and other Celestial Incarna are powerful yes.... but the Deadlords are just as powerful, possbly even more, and unlike the Celesital Incarna they take a Intrist in their toys, a Abyssal with Leige 5 could quite possably expect to be saved from what might otherwise be near death by their master, while a solar or lunar or sidreal is pretty much SOL in the same situation


is it just me or is white wolf giving a little bit too much favortism to Exalteds version of Vampire the Masqurade? (witch more or less put them on the map in the rpg community)
 
I'm going to say no.  your making mountains out of molehills


they can't reagin essence in Creation without a liviing manse or by sucking mortals dry.  


They need to dress all gothy or spend WP lest they suffer penalties in the daylight.


Sorcery is just more flexible then Necromancy, Legions of undead count for about nothing against Exalts.


but most of all they start out with a boss.  Solars don't really answer to anyone, whereas all the other splats have a built in superior possibly looking over their soldier.
 
Yes, and further, the essence engorgement technique explicitly says the extra motes it adds can only be restored through "feeding".  


Keep in mind that alchemicals have a charm that adds ten to their perhipheral as well.  Solars probably have one, too.  


If there is anything you are noticing, it is that Abyssals are more polished than their Solar couterparts, and this is simply a result of experience.  Look at how nicely alchemicals work out.
 
didnt know that about the alchmials, since i havent gotten the book yet,


i know the charm requires feeding to replensh essence, it just seemed to me that any deathknight who learned it would have little problem feeding from people, and if they had a good deal of sorcery or necromancy (or just mastered a fighting charm tree) they would become pretty much unbeatable foes...


Guess i was wrong though
 
Abyssals can be very nasty.  That's what they're supposed to be. Very, very, very nasty.  


But a powerful Solar can make up Charms that are on par with those Abyssal Charms--the BWB has the basics. Abyssals is a generation of writing down the road, better defined, but Solars can make Charms on par with the Abyssals easily enough--since they are at the same power level.  The Solars just don't have quite as many Charms in print. They've got the basics, the Abyssals have a more in depth book is all.


That they have some nastiness to call on makes them good opponents, but Solars can certainly counter them with custom Charms and poweful Sorcery. Solar level Sorcery is easily on par with Necromancy for effect.  Calling up hordes of what amounts to Extras isn't all that great to combat folks that can call up persistant defences with huge dice pools.


That Abyssals get neat toys in print should be a guide to what Solars can also do, if they put their minds to it.  The BWB is just basics.  Consider the Abyssals book to be fine-tuning for Solars as well.
 
Something to add to this.


on half Castes Im just curious do you think essence engorgement meditation should either be forbidden or downgraded?


otherwise it will be a VERY VERY Popular charm.
 
It should not be allowed.  Shadewalkers do not have Peripheral Essence, unless they take a certain Flaw, and boosting Personal Essence by ten motes each time is far too powerful.  At maximum, a Shadewalker can normally only have a maximum of 35 motes of Personal Essence.  If they were allowed to have EET, they could have a maximum Personal Essence of 65 motes!  That would be far too powerful.
 
I think that what you've got to look at with the Abyssals is that they do what they were made to do WELL.  They bring death and boy do they do that.  Of course, once you've killed everyone in the area around you, and you realise that most of your social skills involve threatening people or making them be terrified at your ghastly visage then the other side starts to come out.  As I understand it, Abyssals are Solars, just slightly more squed towards murdering things.


If you want it dead an abyssal is your man.  But they're not so good at anything else...


And necromancy is great for general stuff you can't be bothered to do, but it doesn't really compare with sorcery on a one on one scale.  Besides, alchemical man-machine/god-machine protocals hand Necromancy's ass to it.
 
And necromancy is great for general stuff you can't be bothered to do, but it doesn't really compare with sorcery on a one on one scale.  Besides, alchemical man-machine/god-machine protocals hand Necromancy's ass to it.
That's why the Lion hooked up with the Soulsteel caste in one of the scenarios. Anyways I think the real reason that Abyssals look scary at first is that as starting characters they have a real edge in the Liege, Artifact and Whispers background which puts them almost on par with Illuminated Solars and Rakhasa Nobles as starting characters what with all the gear and all. Personally though I find that the penalties for acting in Creation not limiting at all since nine times out of ten your out to kill something anyway and the wierd outfits just add more to mystique. Besides who cares if you need a Manse to recover essence you can just walk right over to the nearest city and whack someone over the head.
 
IMO, with the exception of the Dragon Blooded, each release seems to gear up the power level just a bit.  When you look at a starting character for a Solar, you are a powerful player, but alone in a unfriendly world.  The Abbys have the Liege background that gives them extra points to put into having your own personal army of 500 war ghosts, a assortment of artifacts and hearthstones (both Underworld and Creaton ones) and with the Necromancy background, you start with a half dozen spells that DO NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE NUMBER OF CHARMS YOU START WITH, unlike the Solars that get spells on a one for one basis.


BTW, there is more than one way to skin a cat, or get Essence while in Creation.  There is a Archery charm that can steal Essence from the target and transfers it to the Abb.  If you combo it with a second archery charm, the arrow burrows into the target and transfers Essence every round until the target is dead.  Another option is a necro spell that lets you gain a point of Essence from every casualty in a large battle.  Cast the spell, and soak it in like a sponge.
 
Yes I see your point each supplement seems to up the power level for each new kind of Exalted, Illuminated Solars being the far worst yet with the Sorcery background and Callings. However I must contest that Dragon Bloods are hardly weak, on the contrary a single well built Dragon Blood can lay waste to an entire circle of Solars just by taking smart advantage of his Backgrounds and cheap tricks. Cathak Setod from the the Wyld Hunt is a good example and a great template for most newbies to follow. Even at low levels his build can be quite lethal.


On the mass battle nerco spell though I must comment that it is pretty useless, you can get the same result by comboing Glorious Carnage Typhoon, Savage Shade Style, Slashing Ghost Talon and Agony Savoring Spirit at less cost, more speed and with the bonus benefit of regaining willpower per kill. If you really want to get cheesy get the Devotion Stone from Cult of the Illuminated to make all your Conviction rolls into automatic successes and a soul steel weapon to draw out more motes, on a good day you'll walk away with a full Essence and Willpower pool as well as a nicely pruned field of corpses. For more sadism throw in Shorouded Claw Attack and Rippling Water Strike.
 
Kajata said:
And necromancy is great for general stuff you can't be bothered to do, but it doesn't really compare with sorcery on a one on one scale.  Besides, alchemical man-machine/god-machine protocals hand Necromancy's ass to it.
Do you have Book of Bone and Ebony?


I only ask because as impressed as I was with Alchemical protocals, I can safely say that necromancy has a place in my heart ever since reading through that book.  Specialized?  Yes.  But it's more than just raising zombies...holy crap they've got some godly spells.
 
It supposed to be of equizalent power to Sorcery, so it's not really surprising.  The problem with Necromancy is that there are so few practitions.  You have the Abyssal Exalts, in which there are only one hundred of them running around, you have the Shadewalkers, of which the eldest are five years old, you have the thirteen Deathlords, you have select heka, Celestial Exalts and you have the Ghost-Blooded.  Sorcery, however, is much more prolific.  All Exalts, God-Blooded, Demon-Blooded, most Half-Caste and many behemoths can use at least Terrestrial Sorcery.
 
Yep I have to agree necromancy is pretty nasty even at the lowest levels especially after Book of Bone and Ebony came out. My favorite spell in particular is Faces of the Dead since it opens the door to using the tactics described in the chapter of undead warfare in the same book. Though nothing still can beat the kick I get out of casting Rattled Bones of War and its higher permutations.


Also question, say a Shadewalker does manage to learn Necromancy and eventually reaches the point where he dies and becomes a Ghost does he retain the ability to cast it as a Ghost in the same way some Ghosts can still practice Martial Arts?
 
Some ghosts must eventually acquire the ability to wield necromancy of varying circles, unless you want to take the strict interpretation that the DLs' ability to do so is solely Malfean-granted.
 
Some ghosts must eventually acquire the ability to wield necromancy of varying circles' date=' unless you want to take the strict interpretation that the DLs' ability to do so is solely Malfean-granted.[/quote']
Malfean-granted mastery of necromancy seems like a consistent interpretation.
 
Sort of like the fact that Second or Third Circle Demons can give mortals the ability to practice Infernal Sorcery through special artifacts.
 
riven5 said:
Kajata said:
And necromancy is great for general stuff you can't be bothered to do, but it doesn't really compare with sorcery on a one on one scale.  Besides, alchemical man-machine/god-machine protocals hand Necromancy's ass to it.
Do you have Book of Bone and Ebony?


I only ask because as impressed as I was with Alchemical protocals, I can safely say that necromancy has a place in my heart ever since reading through that book.  Specialized?  Yes.  But it's more than just raising zombies...holy crap they've got some godly spells.
Sorry, I've not seen Bone and Ebony; it can be hard to get your hands on new books around here.  I don't really know what the new adaptations are to Necromancy.
 
Kajata said:
Sorry, I've not seen Bone and Ebony; it can be hard to get your hands on new books around here.  I don't really know what the new adaptations are to Necromancy.
Gameslore are a UK based web company where I have manged to get most of my Exalted collection from this side of the pond.  They're quick, efficient and fairly well priced.


~FC.
 
one more thing I've got a suggestion for shadewalkers


just reduce the amount of essence essence engorgement technique gives them to... 4


sound good.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top