Fandom A Song of Ice and Fire RP (Game of Thrones)

[Archon]

Fair Isle is tiny compared to the size of the Westerlands. 1/4 of the food the whole of the Westerlands needs? Really? I find that highly unlikely. Especially since - as Lancelot said - it won't be as fertile as the Reacch and Riverlands. And would be a target for pirates and Ironborn.

 

[Mion]

Yea, well, Pentos' tolerance is like kindergarden compared to the Rock around the wedding. Hell, Leanne might skin him alive herself if he so much as spill ale on a guest, to the point where the Boltons might wonder if they've got a lost daughter somewhere.
Speaking of, was someone making the Boltons or has that idea been scraped?


Its actually not too bad honestly. The soil might not be as rich but that can change with smart and sustainable agricultural techniques. It's not like its rocky like the Iron Islands after all. xD

I just read that Fair Island and the coastlines of the Westerlands are flat but it is generaly said that the soil and land of the Westerlands are not fertile at best.


I am just saying I think there is a reason Lord Farman focused on his fishing.


(I may be wrong though.)

 

[Akio]

Yea, well, Pentos' tolerance is like kindergarden compared to the Rock around the wedding. Hell, Leanne might skin him alive herself if he so much as spill ale on a guest, to the point where the Boltons might wonder if they've got a lost daughter somewhere.
Speaking of, was someone making the Boltons or has that idea been scraped?


Its actually not too bad honestly. The soil might not be as rich but that can change with smart and sustainable agricultural techniques. It's not like its rocky like the Iron Islands after all. xD

Pentos is usually pretty malleable in general, the lannisters not so much. A lannister always pays his debts. He'll go as prince of Dorne, maybe to be leader of house martell in sort time. Not as a mercenary leader

 

[SirDerpingtonIV]

Yea, well, Pentos' tolerance is like kindergarden compared to the Rock around the wedding. Hell, Leanne might skin him alive herself if he so much as spill ale on a guest, to the point where the Boltons might wonder if they've got a lost daughter somewhere.
Speaking of, was someone making the Boltons or has that idea been scraped?


Its actually not too bad honestly. The soil might not be as rich but that can change with smart and sustainable agricultural techniques. It's not like its rocky like the Iron Islands after all. xD

TRIGGERED

 

[Elendithas]

Well, I'm gonna finish up the sacking of Rosby with @Leusis so we can totally not go and get hired by Baelor.

 

[Leusis]

Wouldn't fair isle be pretty hilly too? Also the land won't be as fertile or as high quality in the Reach and if they tried what you are saying I think they would be the Iron Islands wet dream lol.

I would guess that Fair Isle has a geography similar to that of the majority of the Reach, possibly a bit more hills from what I can tell on the map. Also getting soil to be fertile isn't that hard, it would just take a while before its as good as the best parts of the Reach. And about being the Iron Isles wet dream, yeah thats pretty much what they'd be but by the time they're like that I'd guess Fair Isle would have a decent fleet of 10 or so galleys and the size of their army almost doubled due to the massive excess of food they'd have.


Really the only time they'd be hard pressed to keep Ironborn off their island would be while they're building up their agriculture and forces. But Roland would of course try and get as much help from Tiber as possible during this time and likely still be very well defended. Plus if the Iron Isles raid Fair Isle successfully they essentially just declared war on the second strongest region of Westeros that now has a navy that could actually pose somewhat of a threat to them and an army twice as large.

 

[Mion]

I would guess that Fair Isle has a geography similar to that of the majority of the Reach, possibly a bit more hills from what I can tell on the map. Also getting soil to be fertile isn't that hard, it would just take a while before its as good as the best parts of the Reach. And about being the Iron Isles wet dream, yeah thats pretty much what they'd be but by the time they're like that I'd guess Fair Isle would have a decent fleet of 10 or so galleys and the size of their army almost doubled due to the massive excess of food they'd have.
Really the only time they'd be hard pressed to keep Ironborn off their island would be while they're building up their agriculture and forces. But Roland would of course try and get as much help from Tiber as possible during this time and likely still be very well defended. Plus if the Iron Isles raid Fair Isle successfully they essentially just declared war on the second strongest region of Westeros that now has a navy that could actually pose somewhat of a threat to them and an army twice as large.

Sorry and I mean no offence by this but I highly doubt the land is similar to the Reach, and I doubt increasing the ships would stop the Ironborn from attacking, that would just mean a bigger party for them lmao.

 

[Leusis]

Imagine the change of view by the other lords if Fair Isle becomes a little reach.


When Roland first became lord he was viewed as little more than an upstart mercenary by the Westerlands lords. By the end Roland is the second strongest lord in the Westerlands by far and holds considerable wealth when compared to most of the others lol.

 

[Archon]

The Westerlands are already powerful. They don't need to be an agricultural powerhouse on top of a gold mine, Fair Isle is tiny in comparison to the whole of the Reach, even with completely fertile soil, it's unreasonable to assume they could supply a quarter of the Westerlands. Let alone double their standing army, I gave my Frey 2,000 extra soldiers using generations of toll savings.

 

[TheAncientCelt]

YO


I'm back. Gots me a new book to read. Napoleon, Soldier of Destiny. Looks good.

 

[WanderingJester]

I would guess that Fair Isle has a geography similar to that of the majority of the Reach, possibly a bit more hills from what I can tell on the map. Also getting soil to be fertile isn't that hard, it would just take a while before its as good as the best parts of the Reach. And about being the Iron Isles wet dream, yeah thats pretty much what they'd be but by the time they're like that I'd guess Fair Isle would have a decent fleet of 10 or so galleys and the size of their army almost doubled due to the massive excess of food they'd have.
Really the only time they'd be hard pressed to keep Ironborn off their island would be while they're building up their agriculture and forces. But Roland would of course try and get as much help from Tiber as possible during this time and likely still be very well defended. Plus if the Iron Isles raid Fair Isle successfully they essentially just declared war on the second strongest region of Westeros that now has a navy that could actually pose somewhat of a threat to them and an army twice as large.

The soil thing can be changed with time (a good amount of time, but it can change). Also, Tiber would be very willing to invest money and materials into this endeavor, so long as the Westerlands and House Lannisters gets exclusive rates and selection to any food stock leaving the island in the future.

Sorry and I mean no offence by this but I highly doubt the land is similar to the Reach, and I doubt increasing the ships would stop the Ironborn from attacking, that would just mean a bigger party for them lmao.

It's not similar at all at the moment, it doesn't mean it can't get there in the future. Also if Haelga becomes queen, there won't be any more Ironborn raids, anywhere lol.


HAELGA FOR QUEEN!

The Westerlands are already powerful. They don't need to be an agricultural powerhouse on top of a gold mine, Fair Isle is tiny in comparison to the whole of the Reach, even with completely fertile soil, it's unreasonable to assume they could supply a quarter of the Westerlands. Let alone double their standing army, I gave my Frey 2,000 extra soldiers using generations of toll savings.

Wait, are you making a point or are you actually saying the Freys just got another 2000 soldiers in their retinue? I'm confused :|

 

[TheAncientCelt]

Oh Uncle Walder. . .I'm so sorry.

 

[Mion]

The soil thing can be changed with time (a good amount of time, but it can change). Also, Tiber would be very willing to invest money and materials into this endeavor, so long as the Westerlands and House Lannisters gets exclusive rates and selection to any food stock leaving the island in the future.
It's not similar at all at the moment, it doesn't mean it can't get there in the future. Also if Haelga becomes queen, there won't be any more Ironborn raids, anywhere lol.


HAELGA FOR QUEEN!


Wait, are you making a point or are you actually saying the Freys just got another 2000 soldiers in their retinue? I'm confused :|

How do you even make soil more fertile?

 

[Leusis]

Sorry and I mean no offence by this but I highly doubt the land is similar to the Reach, and I doubt increasing the ships would stop the Ironborn from attacking, that would just mean a bigger party for them lmao.

The Westerlands are already powerful. They don't need to be an agricultural powerhouse on top of a gold mine, Fair Isle is tiny in comparison to the whole of the Reach, even with completely fertile soil, it's unreasonable to assume they could supply a quarter of the Westerlands. Let alone double their standing army, I gave my Frey 2,000 extra soldiers using generations of toll savings.

I literally did hours of research and math to figure out how many people Fair Isle could feed if 100% of it was covered by farmland. Turns out its about 1.1 million people. Saying 50% of Fair Isle is covered by farmland isn't out of the question (though difficult to achieve) and that would mean they could feed around 550,000 people with their crops. I don't know how many people you think live in the Westerlands but they can raise 55,000 soldiers in total and in a fuedal society its about average to be able to raise about 10% of your population if you scraped the bottom of the barrel. That puts the whole of the Westerlands population at about 5,500,000 so 1/4 of the Westerlands isn't entirely accurate. But 1/6 is definitely within reason which is definitely enough to make sure lords in the Westerlands don't need to buy from other regions considering they can produce enough food themselves to feed, or almost feed their own people and would only need to buy the massive excess that Fair Isle has.

 

[Archon]

The soil thing can be changed with time (a good amount of time, but it can change). Also, Tiber would be very willing to invest money and materials into this endeavor, so long as the Westerlands and House Lannisters gets exclusive rates and selection to any food stock leaving the island in the future.
It's not similar at all at the moment, it doesn't mean it can't get there in the future. Also if Haelga becomes queen, there won't be any more Ironborn raids, anywhere lol.


HAELGA FOR QUEEN!


Wait, are you making a point or are you actually saying the Freys just got another 2000 soldiers in their retinue? I'm confused :|

No, that's a point. My Freys have had 2,000 extra since the beginning, I asked whether I should change that and reduce the number but was never told to do so - it was always in the bibilography.


I'm contrasting the fact that it probably took generations of toll savings to hire those men. Wheras Roland is going to double his whole standing army based on the fact that a tiny island may produce some food. I'm in agreement with Lancelot's previous analogy, ther'es a reason Fair Isle's never in history been an agricultural provider for the Westerlands, and focused on soil.


Like the rest of the Westerlands, it's probably much much less fertile than The Reach and Riverlands.

 

[Leusis]

How do you even make soil more fertile?

Fertilizer >_>

 

[Akio]

Well guys Daenna may have pissed off the Magister of Pentos so unless he's feeling in a generous mood to have his favors denied we may very well have out battle of pentos

 

[Mion]

Fertilizer >_>

Like Shit? I think that could only help so much.

I literally did hours of research and math to figure out how many people Fair Isle could feed if 100% of it was covered by farmland. Turns out its about 1.1 million people. Saying 50% of Fair Isle is covered by farmland isn't out of the question (though difficult to achieve) and that would mean they could feed around 550,000 people with their crops. I don't know how many people you think live in the Westerlands but they can raise 55,000 soldiers in total and in a fuedal society its about average to be able to raise about 10% of your population if you scraped the bottom of the barrel. That puts the whole of the Westerlands population at about 5,500,000 so 1/4 of the Westerlands isn't entirely accurate. But 1/6 is definitely within reason which is definitely enough to make sure lords in the Westerlands don't need to buy from other regions considering they can produce enough food themselves to feed, or almost feed their own people and would only need to buy the massive excess that Fair Isle has.

Is there somewhere you found out the size of Fair Isle and the amount of land on it that will actually be able to be worked on? And how many people live on Fair Isle?

 

[WanderingJester]

How do you even make soil more fertile?

Return nutrients back to the soil. Native Americans have used sustainable agricultural techniques for generations before the Europeans came. It's as easy as bury a fish in the ground every few steps and not farming for the season. The fish decomposes and turns into nutrient rich soil.

No, that's a point. My Freys have had 2,000 extra since the beginning, I asked whether I should change that and reduce the number but was never told to do so - it was always in the bibilography.
I'm contrasting the fact that it probably took generations of toll savings to hire those men. Wheras Roland is going to double his whole standing army based on the fact that a tiny island may produce some food. I'm in agreement with Lancelot's previous analogy, ther'es a reason Fair Isle's never in history been an agricultural provider for the Westerlands, and focused on soil.


Like the rest of the Westerlands, it's probably much much less fertile than The Reach and Riverlands.

So... House Frey started with 1800 men? Because RP canon wise they have 3800 men currently.


Right, I agree with you on that it takes time, though I would say about as much time as it takes for New Ghis to assimilate its new territories and build up its strength as a new Empire. I also agree that it's less fertile than the Reach and the Riverlands, but that doesn't mean it's to the point where it's a desert and can't be changed, ever. *shrug*

 

[Leusis]

It takes about an acre of crops to feed a single adult for a year. There are 640 acres in a square mile. Fair Isle is about 1,500 square miles. Cut that in half and you have 750 square miles of farmland if Roland turns half of the total land mass into farmland. 750x640 is 480,000 so its actually a bit less than I originally thought but still a large portion of the Westerland population.


I did the measurements (though I doubt they are 100% accurate but Fair Isle is a few hundred square miles larger than Rhode Island.

 

[Mion]

It takes about an acre of crops to feed a single adult for a year. There are 640 acres in a square mile. Fair Isle is about 1,500 square miles. Cut that in half and you have 750 square miles of farmland if Roland turns half of the total land mass into farmland. 1,100x640 is 480,000 so its actually a bit less than I originally thought but still a large portion of the Westerland population.
I did the measurements (though I doubt they are 100% accurate but Fair Isle is a few hundred square miles larger than Rhode Island.

Where did you get this information from? (This isn't me arguing it I am wondering because it sounds like it would be good for research.)

 

[Leusis]

I sat at my comp with a ruler measuring the entire coast of Fair Isle and worked with those measurements to find out roughly how many square miles they were. I took a measurement of the wall which we know to be 300 miles long and measured it in inches to find out how many miles each inch would be. So I used the inches on the ruler to measure the coastline of Fair Isle in miles.


I know this isn't the most accurate way to do something and thus why I said it was a rough estimate of Fair Isles land mass and could be off by as much as 50 or so square miles due to simple human error, maybe even a bit more than 50 square miles but its the best I could do with the resources I have available.

 

[Archon]

Return nutrients back to the soil. Native Americans have used sustainable agricultural techniques for generations before the Europeans came. It's as easy as bury a fish in the ground every few steps and not farming for the season. The fish decomposes and turns into nutrient rich soil.
So... House Frey started with 1800 men? Because RP canon wise they have 3800 men currently.


Right, I agree with you on that it takes time, though I would say about as much time as it takes for New Ghis to assimilate its new territories and build up its strength as a new Empire. I also agree that it's less fertile than the Reach and the Riverlands, but that doesn't mean it's to the point where it's a desert and can't be changed, ever. *shrug*

I may have inflated the initial numbers in the bibliography beyond reason, but within reason, I figured 5,800 wasn't out of the question. I know what you're going to say, that it slightly unreasonable and doesn't make a lot of sense - but I'd plead that House Frey is above any minor house, and slightly below any City. The Hightowers can reach 8,000-10,000. White Harbor has both a large army, and a very large fleet.


Based on the books, it seems they've always had 5,000 men at least. They lost around 1,500 with Robb, even more at the Twins/ against the BWB, lets say, 500. Let's say Walder leaves 1,500 behind to defend the Crossing; Still at the Siege of Riverrun Jaime describes seeing Frey banners everywhere.


I'm not saying Fair Isle can never grow to be prosperous, just that doubling the army and feeding 1/4 of the Westerlands seemed inflated. I, too, agree Roland could turn Fair Isle into the most powerful vassal Tiber has, since the vassals of the Westerlands seem to be the weakest among the great houses. Probably because Tywin centralized power on him. I also agree that by the time New Ghis is an Empire, Fair Isle will be just that.

It takes about an acre of crops to feed a single adult for a year. There are 640 acres in a square mile. Fair Isle is about 1,500 square miles. Cut that in half and you have 750 square miles of farmland if Roland turns half of the total land mass into farmland. 750x640 is 480,000 so its actually a bit less than I originally thought but still a large portion of the Westerland population.
I did the measurements (though I doubt they are 100% accurate but Fair Isle is a few hundred square miles larger than Rhode Island.

I'm absolutely awful at maths, but what would your final verdict on the fraction of the Westerlands that can be fed? 1/8? That seems reasonable. But I wouldn't know.

 

[Akio]

What was that 5 minute board update?

 

[Mion]

What was that 5 minute board update?

No idea what that was lol.