2nd Edition Conversion

[Thorn Darkblade]

Well, picked up 2nd ed., and instantly fell in love. Only problem is I've got alot laid down already in my game...I wanna switch it over to the new rules, but I'm not sure where to start without shafting my players on abilities.


Also, what the hell should I do with merits and flaws? Just keep 'em as is?

 

[memesis]

Well, picked up 2nd ed., and instantly fell in love. Only problem is I've got alot laid down already in my game...I wanna switch it over to the new rules, but I'm not sure where to start without shafting my players on abilities.
Also, what the hell should I do with merits and flaws? Just keep 'em as is?

Shafting how?  The total number of abilities hasn't changed.  If anyone has Brawl AND Martial Arts, or Endurance AND Resistance, give them the higher of the two ratings and put the remaining dots aside.  Once done, put any remaining dots into War or Integrity as needed.  If one was favored but not the other, shift the favored.  If BOTH were favored, the player now gets to choose a new favored ability, unless you auto-assign it (e.g. Endurance and Resistance both favored, now Integrity and Resistance).


If a player feels that their dots elsewhere more appropriately belong in War or Integrity, shift them there.  Do this specifically if someone took the Performance Charms which are now in War, for example.


Adjudicate Merits and Flaws as needed, of course, but I don't see why you couldn't keep them.


Since Charms are shifting radically anyway, I'd let the player rebuild his Charm trees to whatever degree seems indicated.


The upshot here is that no player needs to be screwed unless you feel like screwing them

 

[Thorn Darkblade]

The charm trees was the main thing I was worried about...alot of my players have completely non-existant charms, mainly martial arts...is there going to be a re-release of the other styles, cause one of my players has finished tiger style and is moving onto mantis now for a bit of fun.


But, for the most part, the "letting them rebuild it" bit works for me...saves alot of trouble. Thanks!

 

[The Scorp]

The upshot here is that no player needs to be screwed unless you feel like screwing them

HERE HERE!!!


Anyway, yeah, that sounds real nice.  Also if they have any comboes, they should be able to revamp them.  But only rework them equal to the amount of charms the combo had.  two charm combo reworked into another two charm combo, etc.

 

[The Scorp]

The charm trees was the main thing I was worried about...alot of my players have completely non-existant charms, mainly martial arts...is there going to be a re-release of the other styles, cause one of my players has finished tiger style and is moving onto mantis now for a bit of fun.
But, for the most part, the "letting them rebuild it" bit works for me...saves alot of trouble. Thanks!

Actually, Snake Style didnt change THAT much, so make up your own, until they come out with the revamped styles

 

[Guest]

It's easy enough, they have X charms now. See what charms are already covered in new edition. Put those in. Those are Y. That leaves Z charms. They pick new Z charms (likley Excellencies). As long as when youre done, they still have X charms, it should be fine.

 

[memesis]

I found I was able to get full functionality on a 1E-2E Charm conversion for my Melee specialist and had a couple Charms to spare.  Martial artists will PROBABLY be the only hangup in your situation, but even then using the 1E Charms as they stand is probably reasonable.  Playtest through and see how things work.


Things that will change are initiative-based powers and things like Mantis Form which grant "full parries" and the like.

 

[EccentricNed]

Well, picked up 2nd ed., and instantly fell in love. Only problem is I've got alot laid down already in my game...I wanna switch it over to the new rules, but I'm not sure where to start without shafting my players on abilities.
Also, what the hell should I do with merits and flaws? Just keep 'em as is?

Shafting how?  The total number of abilities hasn't changed.  If anyone has Brawl AND Martial Arts, or Endurance AND Resistance, give them the higher of the two ratings and put the remaining dots aside.  Once done, put any remaining dots into War or Integrity as needed.

I think you should let them rechoose their abilities, but ensure that they don't change too much from their current sheets.


The idea of moving dots from those with both resistance/endurence and brawl/martial arts isn't very good IMO. For example, a conniver who likes tricking people into doing what he wants would have a high integrity to prevent the same being done to him, but the same character probably would have low endurence/resistance or martial arts/brawl if he's not a fighter. Further more and he might want a specialty in "Versus Being Conned" to further show that his social defence is better when people try to con a conman.


Also, having Join Battle based on Wits and awareness as opposed to the old Intiative based on Wits and Dex means that charcters who were built to strike first could be at a disadvantage now if they have low Awareness.


The new system means that characters built with the old system may not be able to perform as they should without having to make major changes.


As for merits and flaws, keep them the same. The Bonus points and xp costs are the same so there's no need to change anything. You might want to alter or make new flaws dealing with integrity though.

 

[Guest]

Also, having Join Battle based on Wits and awareness as opposed to the old Intiative based on Wits and Dex means that charcters who were built to strike first could be at a disadvantage now if they have low Awareness.

This is a change that concerns me. It remind me of old 1st Editon OWoD. However, it's one damn roll, and it should be easy enough to houserule that it is stil Wits+Dexterity.


Or, one could rule that the player may use the higer pool of Dex+Alertness (representing physical and mental awareness) or Wits + Alertness (representing fast thinking and the abillity to react to new stimulous).

 

[EccentricNed]

it should be easy enough to houserule that it is stil Wits+Dexterity.

In for a penny, in for a pound: If we're making players change their skills due to Integrity and War, might aswell incorporate this change too.

 

[memesis]

Does anyone actually know of such a build, or is this just a theoretical exercise?  Wits+Awareness means that Dexterity isn't "the one true combat ability", among other things.

 

[EccentricNed]

I think the Dawn in my 1st Ed game had awareness 1 or 0.

 

[memesis]

The idea of moving dots from those with both resistance/endurence and brawl/martial arts isn't very good IMO. For example, a conniver who likes tricking people into doing what he wants would have a high integrity to prevent the same being done to him, but the same character probably would have low endurence/resistance or martial arts/brawl if he's not a fighter. Further more and he might want a specialty in "Versus Being Conned" to further show that his social defence is better when people try to con a conman.

My response is that such a character may not be depending on Integrity to see him through social combat - Integrity supplies only one of the two defenses you get, and "you can't con a con" already has a mechanical grounding in social combat - you can use your own persuasive Ability to resist persuasion by other people.


You can read "Integrity" as "professional cynicism" if you want, and if you find that the build cannot stand without some dots in Integrity, then by all means reassign abilities.  But I doubt it is necessary in the majority of cases.

 

[Persell]

As radical as this might sound (and this also depends on how well the group has kept notes) you could always just allow a rebuild with the 1st ed characters as models.  Just adjudicate an xp amount for folks to start with and have them recreate their characters based on that.  Might not be for everyone, but it gives them the opportunity to make sure the "spirit" of their character is preserved despite the changes in the rules.  Plus it means that you can do a wholesale overview of old charms that haven't been updated yet, making sure that everything is resolved/updated upfront as opposed to having to make decisions later on things that never got properly "brought up to code".


Probably not the ideal fix for most folks, but it's perfect for me.  Plus it allows experienced characters an opportunity to tweak preexisting problems (which always makes players happy).  Only problem is that some players can translate "small changes" to mean "my dawn caste is now an eclipse".

 

[Silence In Daylight]

I like the rebuild idea as well, though many of the problems could be minimized by setting ground rules. Keeping Caste and Favored abilities, for example, as well as original bonus point allocations.

 

[Forn Clakes]

I've yet to discuss with my players whether they would prefer to rebuild or just try a stright conversion and keep as close as possible with what they already have.  I'd prefer a straight conversion with maybe a few changes here and there, but that's because the characters aren't that old so it would be easier than starting from scratch.


~FC.

 

[Bodhisattva]

Rebuild FTW!